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m (vigor rune)
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you didnt put a vigor rune in the equip template. i dunno how to change that or i would
 
you didnt put a vigor rune in the equip template. i dunno how to change that or i would
  +
:Its a given now a days, that you want a superior vigor in for basically any set up. ( 55 or 105 Farmers are an exception ) --[[User:Hikari|Hikari]] 01:01, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Revision as of 06:01, 5 February 2008

Discussion

Trampling Ox is gonna be one hit by the A-Net Nerf Hammer of doom. --Hikari 10:43, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

Don't know if you guys accept EoTN builds yet, its the preview weekend, so move this back to trials if you want to wait for the full release. --Hikari 10:57, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

Don't think it's in a policy, but I would move it to Trials all the same. Tycn 14:00, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

It works well. It's like the SP sins, but WTB Moar Horn(Drop Blades of Steel) for moar KD Lock. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:49, 24 August 2007 (CEST)
Wtf? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 16:52, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

Double horns is nasty, but I say it's redundant, also the way I have the combo set up right now, all 4 skills are on an 8 second recharge timer, so I like the synergy =P --Hikari 21:24, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

This is actually really really good. We messed it round with our guild (me and frv) and I think this is the best thing you can do with the idea. User:Rawrawr DinosaurRawrawr Dinosaur \m/ 03:46, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

Highly recommend falling lotus though, with it you can easily pull off a combo every 8 seconds (which is one of the major advantages along with not requiring a hex) User:Rawrawr DinosaurRawrawr Dinosaur \m/ 04:02, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

Wow I'm sleepy. I meant 12 seconds (recharge of FLS) I'll stfu now. User:Rawrawr DinosaurRawrawr Dinosaur \m/ 04:05, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

It's alright =P, I didn't have any energy issues with +5 Energy daggers and radiants, but if you like Falling Lotus, then I'll slap it under the bar. --Hikari 04:42, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

Another addition is that this works even if get RCed after GPS. Read Trampling Ox talk page. --User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 05:20, 25 August 2007 (CEST)

good damage, buttt... NO HEALING

Another example is... SHADOW PRISON ASSASSIN!!! --User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 02:37, 27 August 2007 (CEST)
Those are good. They kill dummies well. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 03:14, 27 August 2007 (CEST)

GW:EN Note

Builds featuring GW:EN skills should remain in the Trial Stage, and should not be voted upon, until the finalization of those skills. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 07:24, 27 August 2007 (CEST)

Which is now. I'll move to testing. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲŞƳŞŌƤ 05:25, 1 September 2007 (CEST)

in the AB variants, i'd suggest a lead attack followed by Jungle Strike instead of Golden Phoenix Strike. This would allow for more damage and the basic combo could still be executed even without Grenth's Grasp. Golden Lotus Strike could be an OK lead, making up for the additional skill in the chain with more e management. --Kyrax 19:21, 6 September 2007 (CEST)

Bring a shadowstep please.--Relyk 22:55, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Dual Attack

I think Critical Strike could go well there. It gives you E-Management to use the combo every 8 secs, so it's less spike but more pressure. What do you think? ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:33, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

Just grab falling lotus as the second offhand. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 19:54, 8 September 2007 (CEST)
But then 12 sec recharge, which messes me up sometimes when I try to do my chain, but don't have a Falling recharged... ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 20:07, 8 September 2007 (CEST)
When I run this, I use:
Grenth's Grasp Guiding Hands Whirling Charge Golden Phoenix Strike Trampling Ox Falling Lotus Strike Twisting Fangs Resurrection Signet
It means you can spike every 15 seconds, but inbetween each spike you can have a 'mini spike' of Phoenix>Tramping. I found that more than quick enough for RA and TA. User:IbreaktoiletsIbreaktoilets 20:22, 8 September 2007 (CEST)


lose whirling charge, gain pious haste.Darksig 18:23, 12 September 2007 (CEST)

IASIchigo724Ichigo-signature 18:26, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
Why bother. And i'm not stupid, i know its for the ias.Darksig 18:27, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
Pious haste is pretty pointless, just switch to spear/shield and chuck one to cripple em. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 18:34, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
Fully maintable move speed is nice... especially when your only enchant(unless your aegised or somesuch) is a 5 recharge.Darksig 19:00, 12 September 2007 (CEST)
Grenths Grasp is a 10sec recharge, and pious is perty energy heavy. --Hikari 05:50, 16 September 2007 (CEST)

Falling Lotus should replace Falling Spider for sure. I run full radiants and I still run out of energy, especially if I fail a spike and need to refresh Grenth's Grasp. The biggest energy killer here is Whirling Charge tbh; I wish there was a less expensive IAS boost. I was also thinking maybe just removing it for DC or something of the sort cause I hate builds that don't shadowstep (OH HEY A SIN IS RUNNING AT ME! LOL PREKITE!). Yea Whirling Charge shores it up a bit, but like I said, it hurts the energy. Yesmilord 10:00, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

Golden fang strike > Impale?

Golden fang strike seems to be bugged right now - it can be used anytime (with or without a lead) and still cause the deep wound....if it's used without a lead attack it recharges instantly too. It ALWAYS causes the deep wound as long as you're enchanted.....whether you're blinded, or it's blocked, etc, they'll get the DW. You can do your chain normally and use it after Blades of steel. I prefer it over Impale since you don't need to put any points in Deadly arts and it recharges instantly so your whole attack chain recharges in 8 secs. And of course if the deep wound is removed, you can reapply it instantly. P A R A S I T I C 02:17, 29 September 2007 (CEST)

Intersting bug, but no. Impale has a 1/4th activation time and doesn't require melee, this build doesn't have room for an enchantment really either. --Hikari 04:40, 29 September 2007 (CEST)

It already has one. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 04:52, 29 September 2007 (CEST)
That made me laugh. P A R A S I T I C 05:09, 29 September 2007 (CEST)

...I feel like a TOTAL idiot...I thought I was talking on the SP Sin page. --Hikari 06:09, 29 September 2007 (CEST)

I still love SP Sins more.

My AB version

<pvxbig> [build prof=A/D dag=11+1 cri=10+2 win=10][Golden Lotus Strike][Jungle Strike][Trampling Ox][Falling Spider][Twisting Fangs][Featherfoot Grace][Grenth's Grasp][Natural Healing][/build] </pvxbig>

I subbed out pheonix for GLS(energy for GG and the attack + w/e crit energy you get)and JS (faux-IAS) and then TFs for DW and Bleeding (I don't like impale XD).

Featherfoot Grace seems to be a very good IRS and good at reducing conditions, as well at the +113 health from Natural Healing. I like this version a lot more, cause you only need a min energy of 9 to do it (GG is 5 and the pips of energy regen give you 5 +11 from GLS and any crits, that's enough to do all the way to falling spider, after that TFs is only 1-3 second wait, depending on your Crit. energy back during the combo.DSL 01:17, 31 October 2007 (CET)

and another version

Grenth's Grasp Whirling Charge Golden Phoenix Strike Trampling Ox Falling Spider Twisting Fangs Featherfoot Grace Resurrection Signet

yay — Skakid9090 03:25, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Golden Phoenix Strike Trampling Ox Falling Spider Blades of Steel Impale Resurrection Signet Grenth's Grasp Harrier's Haste

That's the build I'm having fun with in RA/TA every now and then, just thought I'll post it here. Almost the frontpage version with some slight adjustments. I'm using Dagger Mastery 10+1+1 and Deadly Arts 6 which gives a much better Impale. It lacks an IAS which doesn't hurt the spike too much but is annoying if you have a Ranger sitting on you interrupting your combo. Harrier's Haste doesn't burn up your energy like Whirling Charge does and it usually triggers on GPS, the first Ox and 1-2 times on BoS, giving you some nice additional damage. The better e-management really pays off imho, I'm running full survivor/nightstalker's insignia (depending on mood) and usually have enough energy to spike as soon as GPS is recharged, so with some skill in target selection (low health opponents when impale is recharging, monks/full health foes with impale ready) it basically comes down to a dead guy every 8-10 seconds; this build's ability to crush through any team without excessive blocking skills is really scary. --Makku 15:22, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Just an idea

Equip the spear with a cold damage mod so you can cripple foes at longer range? AssassinUnrealHavocSigUnreal Havoc 03:39, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Attack skills. — Skakid9090 03:40, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Damn, nevermind, lol. AssassinUnrealHavocSigUnreal Havoc 03:42, 1 November 2007 (CET)

what do you think of this?:P <pvxbig> [build prof=A/D dag=11+1+1 cri=12+1 win=6][Unsuspecting Strike][Lotus Strike][Trampling Ox][Falling Spider][Twisting Fangs][Whirling Charge][Grenth's Grasp][Resurrection Signet][/build] </pvxbig> Unsuspecting deals LOT of damage, you have better energy management, even if you have 5 attack skills you have IAS, all in all you deal lot more damage than the original build :> 86.123.172.165 21:59, 5 November 2007 (CET)

Recharge. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 22:04, 5 November 2007 (CET)
Impale has 15s recharge as well. — Skakid9090 22:05, 5 November 2007 (CET)
Don't have to impale every time. Might as well go 20rch and the generic SP sin if you're on 15rch anyway. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 22:19, 5 November 2007 (CET)

just try it and tell me which is better XD 86.123.172.165 22:16, 5 November 2007 (CET)

The one without 5 attack skills. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 22:19, 5 November 2007 (CET)

Also: this one only uses 3 energy less than the one on the main page. (22 as compared to 24) –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 22:22, 5 November 2007 (CET)

5 attack skills without IAS = BAD here you use them all in 3 seconds...and you 90% kill your target :>

well the one from the page has 4 attack skills too + impale...and it's slower than this one <sorry for the missing "~" in the last post :P> Sabin O 22:27, 5 November 2007 (CET)

Oh? fafaik, 4,21s < 4,95s, making all skills hit in 3,22s compared to 3,96s. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 22:32, 5 November 2007 (CET)

Replace the twisting fangs with Death Blossom since it has a quicker recharge, and conditions wont be needed since the target is essentialy already dead, and the added bonus dammage will finish him off (most of the time)

And that is why we have Blades of Steel--Relyk 22:58, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Nerfed

The change to impale doesn't matter too much, however trampling ox used to be much more powerful, (they knocked off 18 dmg). So is this build still viable? Sir On The Edge 19:57, 14 November 2007 (CET)

Considering how badly every other assassin build besides assacasters got fucked, I'd say yeah. --71.229.204.25 20:51, 14 November 2007 (CET)
SA sin is fine. - Rawrawr 20:53, 14 November 2007 (CET)
Just tried it in RA (slightly moddified) and I got 6 consecutive wins with a team without a healer, so I'd say it's still good.--El Nazgir 21:07, 14 November 2007 (CET)
I got glad point with mending HH wammo, does that make that good...? - Rawrawr 21:08, 14 November 2007 (CET)
SA sin? --71.229.204.25 21:12, 14 November 2007 (CET)
Shattering assault. - Rawrawr 21:13, 14 November 2007 (CET)
Oh. Yeah, those are still alive. --71.229.204.25 21:14, 14 November 2007 (CET)


HB tag

I run this build in HB with great success winning rated games. Should we add it here? It applies cripple and KD, which are very good in HB especially with a heater. Master Gladius 00:32, 8 December 2007 (CET)

Except it's cold damage, which is bad with MoR. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 00:53, 8 December 2007 (CET)

against what rank players does it win against?--Drowning Pigeon 10:43, 28 December 2007 (EST)

Whirling charge??

WHy?? there are other running skills

Because it's not only running but also increases attack speed--Makku 18:18, 15 January 2008 (EST)

This is the build i use for AB, it does pretty well and has a HEAL which is important in AB as monks don't normally give a shit if you tell them to heal u. <pvxbig> [build prof=A/D dagger_mastery=11+1+1 critical_strikes=11+1 windpray=6 shadow_arts=6+1][golden phoenix strike][trampling ox][falling lotus strike][Falling Spider][death blossom][whirling charge][Grenth's Grasp][shadow refuge][/build] </pvxbig> this way u have energy management and can also poison, u also dont have to wait 12 seconds for FLS to recharge, u can just use FS. also if one of ure teammates has earthbind then u can actually use both FLS and FS. I Am Jebus 22:52, 17 January 2008 (EST)

lol i was using this build once and an ally warrior helped me to fight, he knocked the enemy down, trampling ox did not b/c he was already knocked down, and when i used FLS he got back up already. friggin wammo messed me up..... also ive found this to easily solo the necro and mez shrines if u use shadow first, let it b stripped so the mez waste shatter enchant, then use grenths. I Am Jebus 22:56, 17 January 2008 (EST)


One of thse gay sinsplit top20 guilds ran this onj saturday:

Grenth's Grasp Death's Charge Golden Lotus Strike Jungle Strike Trampling Ox Golden Phoenix Strike Twisting Fangs Optional


i missed the last skill and forgive me but i'm not going to studiously study that sort of shit.Dark0805sig2 17:10, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Better Version For AB?

<pvxbig> [build prof=A/D dagger_mastery=11+1+1 critical_strikes=11+1 windpray=6 shadow_arts=6+1][golden phoenix strike][trampling ox][Falling Spider][Death Blossom][Critical Strike][whirling charge][Grenth's Grasp][shadow refuge][/build] </pvxbig> so this way there is healing and e-management with SR and CS. This is what i use. I Am Jebus 17:34, 21 January 2008 (EST)

No DW = fail tbh. --71.229 17:45, 21 January 2008 (EST)
no it doesnt, with the awesome (AoE) damage of Death Blossom, it will more than make up for DW.
Yes it does and no it won't. --71.229 17:58, 21 January 2008 (EST)
No it doesn't and yes it will. I Am Jebus 18:03, 21 January 2008 (EST)
LOsing DW is only even close to viable in pve. 71.229 is right.Dark0805sig2 18:22, 21 January 2008 (EST)
OK FINE!!! YOU WIN!!! Just replace Death Blossom with Twisting fangs or Impale. I Am Jebus 20:00, 21 January 2008 (EST)
YEA and let's SCREAM IT OUT LOUD!!!-- Korineczek--(Toalk--Koantribooshns) 10:42, 23 January 2008 (EST)
Owned himynameisbobbyjoe 23:23, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Pious Assault

Instead of impale, it would remove Grenths Grasp, but foe would still be crippled and you can re-apply if needed; probably won't need to with 1/2 dmg + deepwound.- [[Image:Darkjakjak 2.jpg|19px[[User:Jak123X|<font color=red>'''Jak123X'''</font>]]]] 00:51, 25 January 2008 (EST)

No point. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 09:09, 25 January 2008 (EST)
On that i disagree. Pious is better than impale by a mile at this point, and gg has a low recharge. rofl spikes include falling>pious>BoSDark0805sig2 11:27, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Energy's tight enough when spamming the chain. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 11:46, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Impale costs the same.Dark0805sig2 11:48, 25 January 2008 (EST)
No it doesn't. Also: reapplying GG is extra energy. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 11:49, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Oh shit, you'ze right. indeed.Dark0805sig2 11:53, 25 January 2008 (EST)

5 more energy, faster chain. You still need to wait 20 sec for IAS to recharge. If you run into e-probs, run it with lotus. It's more raw dmg anyways. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 12:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)

If you want faster deep wound run this with a 5 Attack Skill chain including golden fang strike, or better yet, just use twisting fangs. --Hikari 16:04, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Pious added to variants, don't know if wanted on main bar. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:10, 25 January 2008 (EST)
(EC)Yea, Pious Assault doesn't work here. It's just too taxing energy-wise. -Shen 16:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Pious is faster than a reg 5 attack chain. Also is more dmg than twisting (due to BoS). Pious is betta IMO. Pious should be standard, if you can't handle energy, bring lotus instead of spider. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 16:12, 25 January 2008 (EST)
That's a terrible alternative. This builds strength comes from 8 second recharge chain. Energy is tough enough as it is. -Shen 16:14, 25 January 2008 (EST)
That would also have same recharge, but shorter recharge DW... 15s Impale is 8? ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:17, 25 January 2008 (EST)
It's 12 second recharge spike chainas opposed to 8 seconds for this version. And you'd need to reapply GG every time you want to spike. You trade 8 seconds spike, with DW every 2 spikes, for a 12 second spike. That's a huge difference, and the reason I'm with the 8 seconds spike is should the spike fail, it's only 8 seconds. -Shen 16:21, 25 January 2008 (EST)
I'm opposed to a Pious Assault Variant. -Shen 16:11, 25 January 2008 (EST)
Here's my recommendation: Change main bar to FLS, instead of FSS. Then put Pious in. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:15, 25 January 2008 (EST)
DIdnt I just say that? :D Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 16:17, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Just put the FLS/pious as a mini skill bar in variants. The end. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 23:38, 25 January 2008 (EST)

Has been mentioned. -Shen 16:14, 26 January 2008 (EST)

Shadow Steps

With shadow steps, there is an element of surprise and a better way to attack the casters. With just Whirling Charge, i get crippled by a warrior or hexed by a mesmer with crippling anguish or sumthing. wat i use now in RA, TA, and AB is this: <pvxbig> [build prof=A/D dagger=10+1+1 criticalstrikes=11+1 windpray=6 shadowarts=8+1][golden phoenix strike][trampling ox][falling spider][blades of steel][death's charge][shadow refuge][grenth's grasp][whirling charge][/build] </pvxbig> So precast GG and cover with SR, shadowstep in, and begin attack chain, using WC if necessary. When in need of desperate self heal and SR isnt healing enough, use deaths charge on a guy with near-full hp to regain health and run away with WC. Comments? I Am Jebus 15:07, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Res. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 15:09, 27 January 2008 (EST)
DW Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 15:14, 27 January 2008 (EST)
Non-fail. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 15:15, 27 January 2008 (EST)
res sig instead of WC for RA/TA/AB. I dont use DW, i have enough pressure already. btw, does any1 know how to effectively counter SS/insidious parasite while still contributing to the battle? I Am Jebus 15:19, 27 January 2008 (EST)
"I dont use DW". You made me lol irl. That's uncommon tbh. You need DW or you're pretty frecked. Also dropping WC for RA/TA is bad, bc you want the IAS/IMS. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 15:47, 27 January 2008 (EST)
Well, tbh, i dont use DW b/c it makes me put points into deadly arts, for impale, or into scythe mastery, for pious assault. I agree that it makes the target that much easier to kill, but I prefer the up to 160+ damage of Blades of Steel (with double strike) and a shadow step. Some people run it with Twisting Fangs, but i just dont. And dropping WC isnt that bad, cause it costs 10 energy, and only lasts 9 seconds. A rez sig is better cause it can rez your monk, your nuker, or others. Sometimes, i just do RA without a rezsig, but usually, i bring rez. I Am Jebus 16:38, 27 January 2008 (EST)

Ressig is a must for RA. More than a self heal or a shadowstep. Also you don't need to invest much into scythe nor deadly for Pious/Impale to work well. It's for spikes anyways. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 16:40, 27 January 2008 (EST)

k, ure decision. I Am Jebus 16:51, 27 January 2008 (EST)
Sin builds without deepwound are either Moebius Strike pressure builds or they fail flat out. Shadowsteps and self heals are mentioned, and if they are not mentioned I'll add them, in the variants. --Hikari 01:56, 31 January 2008 (EST)

vigor rune

you didnt put a vigor rune in the equip template. i dunno how to change that or i would

Its a given now a days, that you want a superior vigor in for basically any set up. ( 55 or 105 Farmers are an exception ) --Hikari 01:01, 5 February 2008 (EST)