Its meta though. :) --Super Igor 08:32, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Moebius is a companion cube compared to coward. Rawrawr 08:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
No, Moebius is good <3 the perma-knocklocks and you sombo recharges instantly and you have a mean interrupt skill too. --Super Igor 08:39, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
For pressure coward is way better imo, alot stronger chain. SoJ is still best one for condi pressure builds etc however (AS OF GUILD CHAT, I KNOW TOO MUCH ABOUT HB) Rawrawr 08:42, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
Remove the AB tag for the love of god. - Miserysig1isery -TALK 08:43, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
Why> You having troubles cancelling Frenzy? --Super Igor 08:47, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
Oh and Coward is good for catching running opponents, but if they stop and start bashing you then you are screwed, same thing imo, or atleast not too inferior, also, Meta. --Super Igor 08:49, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
Cancelling Frenzy on a warrior is fine, cancelling Frenzy on a sin will get you killed, especially in AB where people attack stuff at random, there are large numbers of foes and NPCs which tend to wail away at anything in range. If you have Frenzy you will barely be able to use it. Maybe it's viable at the mesmer shrines or if you catch a lone person and knocklock them, but seldom elsewhere. - Miserysig1isery -TALK 08:52, 16 April 2008 (EDT)
It's only good in HB since the AI doesn't switch to you.--GatessMoebius Strike IconThe Gates Assassin 09:45, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Death Blossom to variants for AB. ~ ĐONT*TALK 11:58, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

Death blossom + mobious so widely used that it will probably be coverd in an build on here somewhere ^_^--Havitas 03:04, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
It's tagged for AB too, and capping with Horns of the Ox is just lame. ~ ĐONT*TALK 03:23, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
I just think the AB tag should go. AB should be considered as close to PvE as PvP can get and you would never take Frenzy there. I run a Shock Axe in AB occasionally and I find Frenzy is only really useful in the small 4vs4 engagements that can happen, which you should probably be avoiding anyway. If you are knocklocking with HotO, you MIGHT get away with Flail, if you are using Death Blossom you are probably shrine capping, so you can easily get away with Flail and probably don't want Frenzy because NPCs will gank the first thing they see. The build isn't designed for AB and there are already plenty of assassin builds that are viable in AB, I don't see why this should be tagged for it, it seems kind of random. - Miserysig1isery -TALK 03:48, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
Cant you just cancel Frenzy? Assassins never solocap anyway and Flurry is in the variants.
Poorly written. Furious daggers? --Lann-sf2 Lann 16:30, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
i thought death blossom is kinda staple, kuz if u went for someone with <50% hp, but they got healed afterwards, ud lose your stun lock, and u can't go back into a moebius chain quickly after too--Kkagari 20:18, 17 April 2008 (EDT)
I agree with Kkagari. It's handy that Moebius recharges skills, but it's mostly good because it lets you chain death blossom indefinately no matter how much health your target has. Frenzy sounds like suicide to me on a sin, flurry is better even though you have to use it a little more often. And it's a bummer that you don't have any defense or self healing. Golden Phoenix, Death Blossom, Moebius Strike, and Critical Strike are all the attacks you really need ... so you can bring way of perfection, critical defenses, and shadow refuge. Or mystic regeneration if you have NF. Charon 21:22, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Lol.. This build focuses on knocklocking a foe, right? Why on earth use Frenzy then ? I heard FLAIL = GOOD. :) Squirrel 22:15, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

No, this is about doing uber-high-damage. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 13:59, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
My only problem with Frenzy is the AB tag, feels out of place. Heroes are dumb, I know people in AB are dumb too, but that dumb? Lots of randomly shooting fire nukers about and stuff too. Yeah, you have a cancel, but you are a sin = almost squishy. - Miserysig1isery -TALK 14:02, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
Removed at pretty much the same time i made that comment. Yeah, ab tag for a sin with frenzy is stupid. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 16:20, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

You don't need knock-lock to gank somebody, just a good combo and maybe a KD or two will work. Interrupts and KDs at the start of your combo FTW. Flurry is adequate for most ganking builds, and you'll be a bit more resilient -- flail requires adrenaline. I like moebius spam for pressure sins, because you can work cheap combos over and over again with your energy management coming from critical strikes + zealous daggers and/or critical eye. You already have exhausting assault in there, which is a fantastic dual attack for pressuring casters. If you have a short/cheap exhausting + moebius combo and you constantly interrupt a caster, the exhaustion will put them out of comission for a while. About the only thing I worry about with moebius combos is skills that disable parts of your chain, such as shield bash or distracting shot. Just my two cents.--Gimme 22:36, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

Moebius Pressure sins are just useless everywere except for PvE were the build is totally different. Gimme you clearly dont know much about what this build is about, here, by the time you hit with Twisting, Including all the atack buffs you have on yourself the opponent would be already under 50% health or would have lost a fair but of energy (Monk) for keeping himself alive so you hit frenzy and damage pressure the heck out of him untill he is under 50%, it wont take long and you wont need a crappy Dual Atack for HB like Death Blossom. Flurry is no good because it reduces your raw damage output quite a bit, Frenzy is better, much better as it has no downside at all unless you are a total peace of noobletness and cant cancel it in time but hey, Flurry is in the variants. AB may not be a perfect place for this build in terms of solocapping but it still would be quite godly at ganking and could beat(!) SP Sins quite easily by interrupting their chain the knock-locking them and finishing off with twisting and if you have a monk with you then you could also do solocapping. One note though, you cant knock-l,ock effectively with no IAS(!) Frenzy is here because it doesnt have a downside, Flurry does this why it is in the variants. --Super Igor 10:31, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
No, moebius pressure sins are useful in AB, which is a place this build was originally tagged for. I understand this build entirely, and flurry is still excellent because base dagger damage is already quite low.--Gimme 02:00, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

I know people who run frenzy backbreacker in HA/TA, and we are supposed to easily keep him alive. If you cannot cancel with dash, then you are simply doing it wrong. coward is not very good in HB, and this is ekelon's best bar. --Readem 15:18, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Put the AB tag back just put note to use flurry and not frenzy. personally i use flurry return and sprint for ab all the time and it works great. Uraniumjoint 10:01, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

DB or TF

I say DB, even though its cliched, since if Mantis> Exhausting> Moebius> TF > Moebius > Horns > Moebius somehow doesnt get them under 50% youre stuck with no duals to use and you become kinda pointless. idk, if you had DB you could make it mantis > Exhausting > Moebius > DB ect until you got them under 50% and then knock lock, just play the patience game until youre ready... could wait until the time was just right providing pressure the whole time, kinda giving you a dual purpose.. (Kiron 17:08, 18 April 2008 (EDT))

You are geting it somewhat wrong, you combo is: Mantis> Exha> Moebius> Horns> Moebius> Twisting> Moebius, this should get most foes to under 50%, if it doesnt you initial combo is recharged anyway so use Mantis + Exha again, by that time you foe must be under 50% considering that he cant heal himself properly when Deep Wounded, Blossom is just pointless, any half decent monk can sustain that dps quite long, so considering that you as an assassin deal about 45 damage per atack anyway and your ombo is already very spammable getting rid of two lethal conditions is just pointless, I do agree on that it can be somewha useful in AB so you can cap faster, but again, assassins never cap on their own and you can easily kill any NPC with you initial combo an instantly swich to another target as you combo is rechrged, you will also be less likely to kill other players with no deep wound. My point is: Moebius is pointless in PvP, or atleast highly inferior to TF, rememmber, Deep Wound alone is ~120 damage. --Super Igor 10:31, 19 April 2008 (EDT)
The best thing about Death Blossom is that when ur hero's being ganked it's so hard to predict what's happening; as soon as you see a condition you heal straight away and mend ailment boosts the health right back up and rmeoves the DW.. DB is much harder to spot and is therefore much more lethal imo. If I run moebius in HB I often have TF as my free slot skill and use it to finish off a foe, or to lower a splitter's health. Drowning Pigeon

The name is spelled wrong

with <3 --MetroidsigMetroid 17:28, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

Fixd <3 ~ ĐONT*TALK 17:58, 8 May 2008 (EDT)


death's charge over dark prison -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 20:54, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

Could go Dark Prison -> Black Mantis Thrust for a more reliable snare? Selket Shadowdancer 21:04, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
Cheaper. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   21:04, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
5 en > small snare tbh, it is HB Antiarchangel Antiarchangel No U Sig TROLL 23:53, 23 May 2008 (EDT)


ran wild strike instead of exhausting, its gud, should be listed as a variant for sure. Smurf Ohai 13:26, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

And no Death Blossom, wtf? moebius sins don't spike tbh and I've seen no one in top 100 use Twisting on a Moebius Sin tbh. If you run Moebius you're mainly going to split off from the main team to take down other splitters rapidly. It's a whole different playstyle than a normal sin bar in HB (and is fun too IMO!). Smurf Ohai 13:29, 28 May 2008 (EDT)
Welcome to PvX smurf, the land of Hb ignorance! lmfao. Drowning Pigeon
Smurf, change just about anything you want on an HB build. Don't consult anyone here, they're all total dumbasses when it comes to HB--GoldenGoldenstarStar 18:55, 9 July 2008 (EDT)

death blossom

reverted back from twisting fangs. change it if you must, but perhaps discuss it here first. Grummore 15:16, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

I prefer Twisting Fangs and then knock-locking the opponent with Moebius Strike + Horns of the Ox. Deep wound is also pretty amazing if I may say. Shinomori 12:22, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

A/D variant

Harrier&#039;s Haste Leaping Mantis Sting Exhausting Assault Moebius Strike Horns of the Ox Twisting Fangs Natural Healing Resurrection Signet

Harrier's haste is really good in this, it eats kiting monks if you manage EA and HoTO carefully. Harder against Mo/W but the pressure's still significant. Rada ArashiAssassin&#039;s Promise 19:58, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

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