and BoS doesnt get full effect-- 04:16, 12 December 2008 (EST)

^ BoS only does +45 now, so imo you are better off with DB which deals +43@14 dagger mastery + 43 AoE damage + 2 second recharge so you can mini spike with Palm Strike -> Death Blossom ;o Brandnew. 04:22, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Where's the spike? Railin-WoH Railin 13:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)

i think it's somewhere in this build [1] The one this build is trying to be.--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 13:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)
in other words, this is a dupe that doesn't do as much damage or spike.--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 13:59, 12 December 2008 (EST)
Inferior build is inferior and relies on Impale for deep wound. This is weak for spiking.--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:15, 13 December 2008 (EST)
But so that this doesn't have to be voted and what not...--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:16, 13 December 2008 (EST)
You fail so hard, Build:A/D_Grenth's_Grasp_Assassin it's a stronger version of an already great build... --Frosty 04:29, 13 December 2008 (EST) extremely spammable 75 damage + Cripple that's far superior to Grenth's Grasp because it's not an enchantment, is an offhand, and recharges Faster, and allows for more versatile skills. Grenth's Grasp assassin's Died during this last update.--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:31, 13 December 2008 (EST)
YES. Ok, this is like an "updated" version of that, 8 second recharge spikes with more pressure. --Frosty 04:32, 13 December 2008 (EST)
pretty much. and this build is a version of Build:A/W Solo Palm Strike Spiker without the big spike and with impale...but I'm reaaaaly tired of having other people make builds that are 1 skill different from the one that i put up 4 days before the update came out. And i didn't even know it was going to get can we call it a day?--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:36, 13 December 2008 (EST)
All I am saying is a build that spikes every 15 seconds is much different from one that does it every 8... --Frosty 04:37, 13 December 2008 (EST)
Actually...the one that I've been using spikes every 8 seconds...because it uses the same skills. Simply doesn't activate Death Blossom (which is in optionals) on every spike. just uses Palm Strike Horns, Spider, Palm Strike...--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:42, 13 December 2008 (EST)
the downtimes of the builds are the same for Deep Wound spikes...this just has DB on the mainbar.--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:43, 13 December 2008 (EST)
I have learnt that there is no point taking this convosation any further. --Frosty 04:47, 13 December 2008 (EST)
good, i want to go to sleep...--IkimonoI know my ParagonsParagon-icon-small 04:49, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Palm Strike is an Off-Hand, not a lead attack. All the Palm Strike builds here are wrong because they have no lead.

lol Railin-WoH Railin 11:12, 14 December 2008 (EST)
Shadow Walk Palm Strike Trampling Ox "On Your Knees!" Optional Optional Optional Optional

lulz ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 08:42, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Death Blossom

you should be able to finish them off with palm strike after using blades of steel--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 14:32, 13 December 2008 (EST)

DB gives the ability to PS > DB inbetween spikes. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 11:16, 14 December 2008 (EST)
And BoS only does +45 in this build so the added AoE is better than 4 damage. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 11:20, 14 December 2008 (EST)

Blades of Steel counts itself as recharging, which makes it max out its damage with the 3+1 recharging skills at 14 dagger. +60. Siamesenick 00:22, 16 December 2008 (EST) Oh yeah, forgot bos sux when ur using palm strike--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 11:45, 17 December 2008 (EST)

Add GvG-tag?

Since this is one of those rare builds that actually found its way into GvG. The so called "Collapsing Spike" even has the tag and I can't see how this could be worse than that.--Saizer 12:22, 14 December 2008 (EST)

variant of this has been used in GvG, this is a fucking Cookie-Cutter build which kills unprep monks :> Massive Image-Massive Sig 05:08, 15 December 2008 (EST)

More dmg

Why not drop Dagger Mastery a bit, maybe add a major rune, & spec points into Deadly Arts for Sig of Deadly Corruption? - insidious420 10:50, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Because Assassins are fragile enough. Plus, you'd be lucky to even get to chain off all your attacks with all the dual-stanced monks running around these days. Do you really need less health while you're in cool-down? Honestly, Assassins have been banished from any kind of viable play since Isaiah (skills updater/nerfer) hates Assassins anyways, so... yea..... --Ulterion 17:37, 15 December 2008 (EST)
OK true, forget the rune. So why not this as a variant:

<pvxbig> [build prof=A/W dag=10+1+1 cri=12+1 dead=8+1][Palm Strike][Trampling Ox][Falling Spider][Twisting Fangs][Dash][Resurrection Signet][Signet of Deadly Corruption][Flurry][/build] </pvxbig>

Nothing above 12 is rly needed for Dagger, cuz BoS aint here.... - insidious420 18:05, 15 December 2008 (EST)

cleanup, merge, whatever..

I don't really get the point of having two almost identical builds with this one beeing a little more flexible in terms of customization (optional skill) and the other one beeing basically a weaker variant? Imho:

  • get Build:A/W Knocklock Palm Spiker WELL'd (it's clearly inferior: double falling is a waste of a skill slot, there's no need for 5 attack skills if you have a 4s recharge 75dmg always hitting offhand on your bar)
  • slightly change Build:A/W Palm Strike Spiker's main bar:
    • remove optional, add Horns of the Ox. Having dual KD is nice and allows some flexible chains: PS → Ox#1 → FS → Ox#2/TF → PS → TF/Ox#2.
    • maybe replace Flurry with optional and let the reader decide which IAS he wants to run, Flurry/Frenzy/Flail really depends on format and personal preference imho.

Thoughts?--Makku 04:37, 16 December 2008 (EST)

Well the other palm strike build its clearly inferior, thats like bringing a shock axe build but switching Executioners strike for agonizing chop, it works but not as well. Also added disrupting dagger to variants. 14:01, 20 December 2008 (EST)
Rofl, wow, this is now exactly what Build:A/W Knocklock Palm Spiker started out with, just without dual fallings. and now that both builds have been changed around so much, now this build has become the build that Build:A/W Knocklock Palm Spiker once was...Irony...--IkimonoI know Paragons. Listen PadowanParagon-icon-small 17:16, 21 December 2008 (EST)


Didn't we keep

Palm Strike Trampling Ox Falling Lotus Strike Death Blossom Impale Optional Optional Optional

as mainbar? -- Jebuscontests 17:21, 21 December 2008 (EST)

Cause Twisting Fangs ownz, nobody uses DB and Impale. --Frosty 17:22, 21 December 2008 (EST)
Its not meta obviously--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 17:22, 21 December 2008 (EST)
PS~>DB spam in between. -- Jebuscontests 17:23, 21 December 2008 (EST)
It's not worth it over another KD. --Frosty 17:23, 21 December 2008 (EST)
I see no other KD mainbar. And if you mean HotO in vars, thats basically the Knocklock Palm Spiker we alrdy have. -- Jebuscontests 17:25, 21 December 2008 (EST)
It should all be in variants though, no one runs dual falling unless on splits, most people actually use nine tail strike, so they can PS -> NTS. --Frosty 17:29, 21 December 2008 (EST)
Meh, NTS has too long a recharge imho. But leaving DB and other shit as var is probably better. -- Jebuscontests 17:50, 21 December 2008 (EST)
Tbh, I use Flail, Death Blossom and Impale. It's an equally strong spike and can dish out some pretty high DPS, too. ــмıкεнaшк 11:46, 23 December 2008 (EST)
How much base damage do you lose from flurry? Is Frenzy better than flurry or is the reduced damage negligible enough? I think that given the fairly long cooldown of attack chain it'd be more important to get off as much damage in as little time as possible, thus, Frenzy comes to mind. Granted Sin's are more fragile than warriors with it, but with keen cancelling and even percieved pressure foresight I think it's doable to swap flurry for frenzy. Whatcha'll think? :o --Ulterion 17:40, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Sins should only frenzy in hb--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 17:42, 23 December 2008 (EST)
I use Flail, tbh. After the first 4 auto-attacks, you're almost always in it. ــмıкεнaшк 17:44, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Just use flurry tbh;s Flail makes you unable to IAS in downtime, because people are going to lolkite you then. Brandnew. 17:46, 23 December 2008 (EST)
thats why u have dash?--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 17:48, 23 December 2008 (EST)
After which you have to recharge flail all over again, gg. Brandnew. 17:48, 23 December 2008 (EST)
You flail during the spike... ull have enuf adrenaline again. How do they kite when they're snared anyways?--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 17:52, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Exactly. They move at -50%, you move at -33%. ــмıкεнaшк 17:54, 23 December 2008 (EST)
So Relyk, you aren't going to use your IAS when you are not spiking..? Brandnew. 17:55, 23 December 2008 (EST)
They're dead by then :)--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 17:55, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Dot dot dot. Brandnew. 17:57, 23 December 2008 (EST)
If equipped with flail, I'd only use it in three instances: Spiking, finishing off a target with 30% health or less or if I'm in demand of more energy (hence landing as many criticals as possible). --Ulterion 18:45, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Palm Strike Flail Trampling Ox Falling Spider Twisting Fangs Nine Tail Strike Dash Resurrection Signet

^ Is the best bar, imo. Falling Spider means that you don't have to wait an extra 4 seconds for Falling Lotus Strike, so your chains are cleaner and can be used more often. Nine Tail Strike means more DPS (Death Blossom would be even more, but the unblockable Dual Attack is worth the loss of ~4 DPS). You'll probably have to use Zealous Daggers more often, though. ــмıкεнaшк 10:58, 24 December 2008 (EST)

DB is AoE and can be spammed more, nine tails sucks, having two palm strikes use DB on the alter to do ~175 armor ignoring AoE damage is hawt--GoldenGoldenstarStar 13:25, 25 December 2008 (EST)

Updated Main bar

Because Dual KD's are much more pressure's. FrostrageFrosty po! 13:23, 25 December 2008 (EST)

TBH they're really not as good as palm strike->DB--GoldenGoldenstarStar 13:25, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Why the fuck do you need falling lotus??? oO -- 13:28, 25 December 2008 (EST)
if you're bad energy can be kind of rough, in my exp spider is better for poison but it doesn't really matter that much--GoldenGoldenstarStar 13:29, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Energy will always be rough, you're spamming skills on recharge to deal damage ^_^ — Skakid Rally- kupo!S9M 13:31, 25 December 2008 (EST)
I guess in HA specifically the Death Blossom AoE will help (especially) amd HotO won't trigger as much in HA but everywhere else the extra KD is gud. FrostrageFrosty po! 13:32, 25 December 2008 (EST)
You won't have any problems if you stick in your Zealous set. ــмıкεнaшк 13:38, 25 December 2008 (EST)

This bar is now basically exactly the same as Build:A/W Knocklock Palm Spiker. I suggest leaving that as a knoclock bar and changing HotO to DB on this bar for a more DPS version--GoldenGoldenstarStar 13:33, 25 December 2008 (EST)

Or we could just merg, they are affectivly the same, except one has an extra KD and falling skill whereas this has a more offensive Dual attack and an optional. FrostrageFrosty po! 13:37, 25 December 2008 (EST)
This is a good way to go about it. — Skakid Rally- kupo!S9M 13:37, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Nice choice! Death Blossom is the way to go while the rest of the chain is recharging. This variant eliminates being totally useless during the downtime. --Phoenicia1337 07:12, 29 December 2008 (EST)

GvG Tag

Isn't this like, the core of sinsplit? Brandnew. 13:39, 25 December 2008 (EST)

The one with knocks is waaay better in GvG. — Skakid Rally- kupo!S9M 13:40, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Okay. Brandnew. 13:41, 25 December 2008 (EST)
This one is much more HA material than GvG.--IkimonoI know Paragons. Shut up and listenParagon-icon-small 19:55, 31 December 2008 (EST)
never mind, since it was changed, this is completely capable of doing every type of PvP.--IkimonoI know Paragons. Shut up and listenParagon-icon-small 01:39, 4 January 2009 (EST)

This is the proper Bar

just so you know the real bar which actual good HBer's use is this:

dash, frenzy, palm strike, Trampling ox, Falling Spider, Horns of the ox, Falling lotus, Twisting Fangs.

have that, it's far superior to the rubbish currently posted. Drowning Pigeon 10:42, 1 January 2009 (EST)

A/W Knocklock Palm Spiker Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 11:15, 1 January 2009 (EST)
the current build is the one everyone runs, including myself.--IkimonoI know Paragons. Shut up and listenParagon-icon-small 01:37, 4 January 2009 (EST)

Strong Counter

I found out the other day that a decent mesmer can really fuck one of these guys over. Its funny, cuz mesmers usually pwn casters. Diversion on Palm Strike? lolwtfpwnt... Sig of Humil? lolwtfpwnt... I had one of these shitters camping me in HA. I diverted palm strike, NO COMBO...HAHAHA. I tanked dagger hits for 12 dmg while i pooped all over his casters. muhaha. 20:37, 7 January 2009 (EST)

Dshot, but then you could say that the same about a lot of frontliners, divert wounding strike = less pressure, divert primal rage = less pressure, generally diverting a key skill on any bar is a counter. FrostrageFrosty po! 20:38, 7 January 2009 (EST)
Diversioning a sins elite usually makes him useless--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 20:57, 7 January 2009 (EST)
duh, but only an idiot sin doesnt know how to counter diversion. Alpha firebornAlpha Fireborn Cripshot 21:56, 7 January 2009 (EST)
What bout anti-knockdowns? Once the sin loses the advantage of the monk being unable to heal himself this build is less useful
those skills you metion, yes diverting them reduces the pressure. But diverting Palm Strike makes him COMPLETELY useless. I emphasize COMPLETELY. All he can do is lol wittin u wif daggers and body block... And also id like to add, Palm Strike is SPAMMED making diversion very easy to land. Also when builds like this become mainstream meta (this is reallllly meta) a lot of noobs run it. Sure they can get kills with the build, but they usually wont stop spamming PS no matter what happens. They have no knowledge of counters, making this build very easy to destroy. 15:19, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Who didn't see that coming

58 damage and 4 seconds cripple @ 13 CS. FrostrageFrosty po! 19:40, 8 January 2009 (EST)

ohnoes. --71.229 19:42, 8 January 2009 (EST)
How much of a difference does the nerf really make to builds like this, though? The damage reduction wasn't very big, and the cripple still outlasts the recharge and triggers skills no problem, so I don't think much has changed. --GEO-logo Ĵĩôřũĵĩ Đēŗāķō.>.cнаt^ 03:17, 9 January 2009 (EST)
It just makes the bar slightly less bullshit. No need for a revote, it will still see significant play. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 03:23, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Someone Clueless: "So what's the reason Palm Strike is so overpowered?"
Someone Intelligent: "The recharge."
Izzy: "Ok, let's nerf everything else about it." Shard 03:59, 9 January 2009 (EST)
LOL awesome, & probably accurate, reenactment of the "balancing" process. My suggestion was to up recharge to 6 & drop cripple duration to 5 +/- a sec or 2. Wonder why it's so hard for to see that a 4 sec recharge, no req offhand is crazy OP. - Ins420sig420 12:33, 9 January 2009 (EST)
No, the major problem is that it causes cripple in a direct offhand attack. If Trampling Ox didn't exist, it wouldn't even be that good tbh, but PS->Trampling=lol. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   12:45, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Then people would just use HotO and it would still be lolpressure tbh Frv. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 12:47, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Well yeah, but not as lolOPed as it is now. Unconditional KD>No allies adjacent, and you can try to stay next to allies, but it would still be significantly less effective. And 12r on HotO... ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   12:50, 9 January 2009 (EST)
its the fact you can skip lead and off hand attacks to the best part of sins (dual attacks) and you can do it practically all the time :/ FrostrageFrosty po! 13:12, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Well, if you look at it from the standpoint of using Golden Pheonix + Wild Strike, that's the damage bonus that you would be getting from palm strike, and to make it elite, you reduce it to 1 skill and give it cripple.-- 14:40, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Your combo doesn't work. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 14:44, 9 January 2009 (EST)
And it can be blocked, and is effected by anti-melee, and takes longer to achieve. FrostrageFrosty po! 14:53, 9 January 2009 (EST)
And two skill slots, with an enchantment in a third. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 14:56, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Frosty and Misery deliver. FrostrageFrosty po! 14:58, 9 January 2009 (EST)
Oh Oh oh and no cripple, but misels, I think this guy was just saying what PS is merged from if you know what I mean ;o FrostrageFrosty po! 15:02, 9 January 2009 (EST)
I thought you went out? Oh fuck you and your iPhone... - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 15:08, 9 January 2009 (EST)

Better IMO, lemme know

Palm Strike Trampling Ox Falling Spider Blades of Steel Twisting Fangs Optional Optional Optional

Defy PainJonathan 07:19, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Blades of Steel only does +30-45 in that combo in a lot of cases. Death Blossom does +43 and adds AoE. Death Blossom is better in most cases, especially in HA. - Misery Is Friendly Misery Dog obaby 08:01, 10 January 2009 (EST)
Wut? Palm Strike->Trampling Ox->Falling Lotus->Twisting Fangs->Palm Strike->Blades of Steel--20pxRelyk_||_I hammers u! 04:59, 18 January 2009 (EST)
80 AoE damage still makes it superior.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 15:13, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Ricky says: "Do let us make this particular skill, known as 'Blades of Steel', a variant to this splendid build!" RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 15:16, 21 January 2009 (EST)

Hammer Bash

Would own as a variant. Even if PS gets disabled, you can still do shit! ~~     Frvwfr2   Frv Boston  talk    admin   15:20, 21 January 2009 (EST)

I would change the bar to...

<pvxbig>[build prof=a/w dagg=12+1+1 crit=12+1][palm strike][trampling ox][falling spider][critical strike][twisting fangs][flurry][optional][resurrection signet][/build]</pvxbig> Can do a FULL spike every 8s, with DW on every other spike. ~~     Frvwfr2   Frv Boston  talk    admin   20:10, 21 January 2009 (EST)

I like urs better as well MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 20:47, 21 January 2009 (EST)
Added under variants. ~~     Frvwfr2   Frv Boston  talk    admin   21:59, 21 January 2009 (EST)
I'd vote to mainbar that, as it's what I use in RA, & has the best compactness/e-management. AB is the only time I take Death Blossom & Falling Lotus. - Ins420sig420 10:48, 22 January 2009 (EST)
Not main bar, but it isn't a bad variant FrostrageFrosty po! 11:37, 22 January 2009 (EST)

the vid

is alright to link but kinda embarrassing. 1 single pure solo kill besides npc foes where you killed some noob using SoI and meteor shower. other is KD'ing on RoJ or something :< ---Chaos- TheDentist 11:18, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Yes cause we need a video of a sin solo killing 3 people in a row to show how it works--Relyk 11:25, 27 January 2009 (EST)
bah. ---Chaos- TheDentist 11:28, 27 January 2009 (EST)
I'm not going to watch the video, but Relyk, are you saying thats its hard to get 3 kills with a Sin in ab?--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 17:14, 3 February 2009 (EST)
He was being sarcastic (as to say getting 3 kills in AB is no big deal) FrostrageFrosty po! 17:38, 3 February 2009 (EST)
Ah k.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 09:31, 4 February 2009 (EST)
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