FANDOM


Olook, I just won PvE without even using a damn elite. Enjoy it for a month or two. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 03:49, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Jagged strike is bad in PvE :/ Drahgal Meir 03:50, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
a 1/2sec attack with a 1sec recharge is good no matter where the hell you are. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 03:55, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
With an IAS just use golden fox strike tbh. Drahgal Meir 03:57, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Golden Fox strike will slow down DB spam? BLUE LAZERSEat ItUser-Baby Blue Lazer sig pic 04:01, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
4s recharges suck, and also IIRC IAS's affect the activation time of .5s attacks too, so it's more like 1/3sec attacks. Jagged Strike >>>>> every other lead here. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 04:04, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
if you use moebius strike, you wont need a fast recharging lead attack--Relyk 05:44, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Actually... This build does only marginally less DB than MS/DB. At the same time, it attacks faster than MS/DB... and even faster than locust's fury. Tbh, this build is pretty amazing, especially with lots of damage buffs. All of the upsides of MS/DB and locusts with no downside and more flexibility. Try it out. I've been using this build with Fox's Promise as my elite. --User:Thc 08:06, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
This should deal more damage than MS>DB even without buffs, and if you add SoH it should be like twice the DPS of MS>DB. Also, Magehunters should be good for the extra .5s attack for faster attack speed if you don't need Fox's Promise or Flashing Blades.. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 14:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Without buffs MS/DB does more damage than this, not by much but it does more. Because of the 3 second recharge of Fox Fangs this deals less AoE aswell. Not sure about Magehunters, I'd probably take something more useful to be honest. Devika 17:49, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
So barely less DPS for retarded synergy with buffs and SY. Everyone brings Barbs, which is more than enough to push it past MS>DB's DPS. I mentioned Magehunter just because Thc tried to get it out of optionals. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 18:52, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Nooo this has higher dps then MS/DB while the target is above 50% hp x,x BLUE LAZERSEat ItUser-Baby Blue Lazer sig pic 21:22, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
How do you figure that out when Fox Fangs has a 3 second recharge while Moebius Strike has a 2 second recharge? Jagged Strike does no extra bonus damage either. The main benefit this has is the freedom of elite choice. Devika 08:29, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Well I was thinking more of the freedom of elite choice gives you higher dps unless you bring more utility...BLUE LAZERSEat ItUser-Baby Blue Lazer sig pic 23:43, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Jagged Strike may give no damage bonus but Fox Fangs does as much damage as MS does, while jaagged simply gives you another attack (therefore more damage). --Frosty Mc Admin 00:50, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
jagged is fine if you have buffs--Relyk 02:53, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
Jagged is just the equivalent of an auto attack that inflicts bleeding tbh. What you are essentially doing is spamming Fox Fangs and Death Blossom bonus damage in an equivalent way to spamming MS/DB, but the damage is marginally less than MS/DB over time because Fox Fangs has a longer recharge time. I actually tested this on MoD and MS/DB (no buffs just straight attacks as both can take buffs anyway) squeezed past this. Again that doesn't make this bad though, the strength this has is it does comparable damage with a free elite, though you lose potential AoE. If your party knows how to ball up foes you're probably better off with MS/DB (GPS>DB>MS>DB etc), if not, or you need a specific elite for some purpose then take this. I'd actually suggest making this A/any and make the secondary free allowing more elite choice freedom for greater versatility. Especially if you have an Imbagon in your party and don't need Save Yourselves. Devika 03:22, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
The problem I have with this build is that i can't seem to find a proper elite that fits the style of the build, it's like no elite is good enough for it :s--Tyrael-- 21:17, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
battle rage ^^--Relyk 22:12, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
This build allows me to use Shadow Meld and still kill stuff <3--TheShortOneKlhksjdnfsig $ɧor₮ talk 22:17, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
Shadow meld in pve? Battle rage in pve? what?????--Tyrael-- 13:56, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Battle rage is viable in a few select warrior builds. Shadow Meld, i cant see why you would use that in general purpose pve...--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 14:30, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah but I meant in this build...--Tyrael-- 14:39, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Battle Rage isn't a bad idea, means you get lol Save Yourselves spam and there is less time between monstors (like, quicker c spacing!). --Frosty Mc Admin 15:44, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
Ok man read the description : "For 5...17...20 seconds, you move 33% faster and gain double adrenaline from attacks. Battle Rage ends if you use any non-adrenal skills. " And your main attack skills are non-adrenal so will cancel BR....--Tyrael-- 17:10, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
pretty much for getting to the next guy and while you wait for fox fangs to recharge--Relyk 17:13, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
You could just use Dash and save your elite skill. Devika 22:26, September 8, 2009 (UTC)

Backbreaker in PvE? WHAT?--Tyrael-- 10:41, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

@Devika: Uh huh, and then what would you replace for an elite? Or of course, you could be hawt and go without one altogether. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 14:13, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
You could change critical eye for way of the assassin for the + crit chance, but then again you lose the +1 e on crit, just an idea...--Tyrael-- 15:05, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
No need for an IAS tbh.--TheShortOneKlhksjdnfsig $ɧor₮ talk 15:08, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
Critical Agility says hai. Also, they mentioned WotA for the additional chance of landing a critical hit, not for it's (crappy) IAS. Spaggage talk 16:35, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
Wut. He meant there is no need for IAS, as in there shouldn't be one. I agree. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin 18:15, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
CA is too fucking good to pass up. More attacks, more armor, and better than any other skill that might replace it. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 18:59, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
IMO optional, "BUH!", "IATS!", CA.--72.189.82.222 19:15, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
CA still speeds up death blossom and gives extra armor, so definately worth staying in the build--Tyrael-- 22:30, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
Someimtes I bring Ursan as an elite to relive old memories. 2 skill bars is sexy.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 21:57, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
All 3 PvE skills are pretty solid, so I have trouble using any other PvE skills for the optional slot. I've been running this with a spiritway team lately and using Temple Strike there. It makes for very fun h/h runs of Glint's Challenge... --Dfscott 16:13, September 22, 2009 (UTC)

Actually in theory this only deals 5 DPS less than DB/MS (not a whole lot). This is according to the Master of Damage though. It does have the advantage that it frees up your elite slot. Rada ArashiAssassin&#039;s Promise 03:41, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

INSERT SEEPING WOUND TO RETAIN LOST DPS! ---Chaos is gay - 13:04, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
This doesn't do a better job than ms/db at spamming db (as in frequency) but it has more attacks per second so if you use it with barbs and soh you get absolutely insane damage output. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin 11:51, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
Oh how long that has been argued for Locust's Fury.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 12:13, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
This is admittedly a lot better than LF. LF without buffs had very little DPS (maybe 20-30, even with AScan), while this has barely less than MS>DB (like, 90 DPS). Also, this actually attacks even faster than LF, and about 80% faster than MS>DB. That means that every buff you put on this will be 80% more effective than if put on MS>DB. That's HUGE, considering 80% of SoH is 19.2 (or an extra 19.2 DPS that MS>DB wouldn't get). In fact, with SoH alone and considering AScan, you're adding ~78 DPS to this build.. I don't see any other physical build even coming close to a number like that (besides possibly critscythe). --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 17:08, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
Feels terrible seeing MS go isn't it? --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin 19:42, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
Though, JS.. is worse at pumping out DBs, which is a disadvantage when facing bunched up mobs (which you should). --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin 19:51, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
It's not that much more often. It's about .5s faster than this. That's not enough to level the playing field. --Jaigoda endrant Jaiwritesalot . . . 19:55, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
Depends. --Carnivorous CupcakeCarnCupcake Muffin 20:18, October 1, 2009 (UTC)

Needs Rush --GodofJur 02:48, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

Why the fuck would you run 25% non-partywide IMS in PvE? Shazzydiddles 03:22, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
cause dash costs energy--Relyk 03:36, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
takes too long changing targets and chasing kiting foes --GodofJur 04:53, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
Or you do PvE the right way with tons of AoE and snares. Shazzydiddles 07:10, November 13, 2009 (UTC)

This build is so strong. Thunda Sig 2Pimpstronghand 03:53, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

except it doesnt have crit agility mainbar so no--Relyk 09:02, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

This is like Empathy. Use to win PvE. Just vanquished Cantha in like 4 seconds. D: I don't know if you can superwin PvE, but this + SoH smite monk comes close. :) LessQQmorePewPew 20:37, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

You know, I'm not sure whether to be proud or annoyed that a build i developed years ago is finally in meta. Also, if you add another 4s recharge offhand attack, you can spam DB at the same rate as MS/DB, and gain some extra utility (like stance removal). Way of the Assassin is also a good elite for it's energy management, didn't see that mentioned in the build's page. But this is a nice condensing of the build, cool. ~Psyko

WotA is on the build page. No one here cares about priority for a build (and you'd have a helluva time proving it anyway). Also, years ago this would've been bad since the fast-activation on Jagged didn't exist yet, and Fox Fangs had a longer recharge time. The buff happened a little over a single year ago. --Toraen 21:57, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Post Update

I know it hasnt happened yet, but after the update this will be an incredibly viable build. (be sure to look at the proposed changes and not what pvx lists. <pvxbig> [build prof=Assassin/Warrior][Asuran Scan][Jagged Strike][Fox Fangs][Death Blossom]["Fear Me"][Soldier's Stance][Optional][Save Yourselves][/build] </pvxbig>Ward of WeaknessEle Masmar 21:46, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

After what update? Zyke-Sig 21:44, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Like i say, hasnt happened yet, but this is what they have proposed, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:Skill_update_previews/20100219Ward of WeaknessEle Masmar 21:46, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Go Warrior primary tbh. More advantages, can go 8+1 tactics etc., sins don't need the extra crits from fear me. --Short 22:38, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Warriors wont have the energy, no WE Ward of WeaknessEle Masmar 23:15, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Crit agility gives you an additional 25 armor and 33% IMS, whats the point... --Frosty Frostcharge 23:53, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
That you have an almost unstrippable IAS and huge block, along with high crit chances, fear me is just the shout shosen due to the crit increase and (if they keep the cost to 4 adren) its easy to maintain Ward of WeaknessEle Masmar 23:56, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Seems like a wasted elite if you ask me, you can take crit defences if you really want blocking... --Frosty Frostcharge 23:56, February 20, 2010 (UTC)
Still, crit defenses and agility are always gunna be on top, meaning theres a high chance that with any enchant removal they'll be removedWard of WeaknessEle Masmar 00:00, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
It's PvE, nobody cares about that risk, mobs are too random. Your stance might just as well be stripped. There is a counter to everything. --Chaos? -- 00:03, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
True, but if the update comes out as theyve shown, i think this is a viable build that will be able to fit in the variantsWard of WeaknessMasmar 00:08, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
This would probably be the best option tbh. Life Guardian 00:07, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
&There are far less skills commonly encountered that remove stances than those that remove enchantsWard of WeaknessMasmar 13:10, February 21, 2010 (UTC)
If Fear Me gets buffed for PvP, then lol@hammer warriors. Zyke-Sig 21:37, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure they stated it those updates were all for PvE? Masmarward Masmar 19:38, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

Variation?

Could one possibly:

  • Change the lead to [gw:Golden Fox Strike|Golden Fox Strike] for extra damage(And unblockable)
  • POSSIBLY Change the off to [gw:Wild Strike|Wild Strike] for another unblockable and stance removal.
  • Add [Palm Strike|Palm Strike] to help somewhat nullify interrupts, keep an almost constant cycle (It works. Even with 33% IAS, tested it), spam DB maybe even a little more, and to deal armor ignoring damage

For a possible variation? To make: <pvxbig> [build prof=Assassin/Warrior Dagger=12+1+1 Critical=12+1][Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Asuran Scan][Palm Strike][critical eye][critical agility]["Save Yourselves!"][/build] </pvxbig> Thoughts? I'm rather noob at making builds but I thought this would do better damage. 58.175.213.47 09:17, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

The 1/2 activation attacks result in more attacks per second. This is especially significant with buffs like SoH and Barbs, and building adrenaline for SY. Golden Fox and Wild also have longer recharges than Jagged and Fox Fangs. If you aren't using Jagged→Fox Fangs→DB you should probably use MS/DB. ToraenTheJanitorToraenSig2 21:17, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Oh, total noob moment, sorry :( 58.175.213.47 20:25, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

new elite

seeping wound owns now.

Brawling Headbutt + Falling Lotus

Should be at least variants.

Jagged Strike Fox Fangs Death Blossom &quot;Save Yourselves!&quot; Brawling Headbutt Falling Lotus Strike Rush Critical Agility

<3 Gives super attack spam tbh. LessQQ moreQQ 15:30, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Vow of Strength, Unsuspecting Strike

We'll assume max Asura and Ebon Vanguard ranks. To start things off, the current bar should do 58+75+75= 208 armor-ignoring damage, with EBSoH, 84+101+101 or 84+102+102= 286-288 armor-ignoring damage. The best possible chain you can get is Jagged->Fox->DB->Auto-attack->Jagged->Auto-attack, which takes 3.6783 seconds (your chain would normally be 3.33 seconds (recharge and activation time of Fox Fangs, but you'll interrupt an auto-attack). So, (58+75+75)/3.6783=57 DPS. With EBSoH, that's (26+84+101+101+26+26+26)/3.6783 or (26+84+102+102+26/0.6+26+26/0.6)/3.6783=115-116 DPS.

Note: /0.6 is for Double Strikes (2 X 0.3).

<pvxbig> [build prof=A/D CriticalStrikes=11+2 DaggerMastery=11+1+1 EarthPrayers=8][Asuran Scan][Unsuspecting Strike][Fox Fangs][Death Blossom][Vow of Strength][Optional][Critical Eye][Critical Agility][/build]

  • [["By Ural's Hammer!"]
  • [[Ebon Battle Standard of Honor]

</pvxbig>

It forces you to play a team with few to no conditions, but may be worth it for the huge domoges. With "BUH!", one chain should do 595-599 in 2 seconds (271+90+117+117 or 271+90+119+119) armor-ignoring damage with max Asura, and depending how rounding works. Unsuspecting on its own does almost half of the total damage (so it should definitely at least be in the variants). The build's probably a little hard on the Energy, though, and EBSoH would be even worse, but EBSoH would net you 614 armor-ignoring damage (250+106+129+129) in 2 seconds and, of course, benefits the rest of your allies. However, you can't really look at DPS with this build, because after one use of your chain, Unsuspecting Strike becomes ineffective against a target below 90% Health, so, if you can't kill your target with one chain, your 271 or 250 damage lead becomes 82 or 99, losing 189 or 151 damage.


When solo, this may be the best, again, if Energy is possible (I haven't played GW in months, and I don't really intend to start):

Asuran Scan Unsuspecting Strike Fox Fangs Death Blossom Ebon Battle Standard of Honor Optional Critical Eye Critical Agility

That's 194+84+101+101 or 194+84+102+102 = 480-482 armor-ignoring damage in 2 seconds. Again, DPS drops the second time around on the same target because of Unsuspecting Strike, and you probably wouldn't be able to handle going through your whole chain twice. Normally, I would put "SY!" in that optional, but you may never be able to charge it, because monsters will drop too quickly and you'll spend a lot of time running. Golden Lotus Strike or Black Lotus Strike could be used to manage Energy.

I think it's actually better not to use an Elite than choose from a bunch of shitty ones. Flashing Blades: blocking is overrated; Fox's Promise: only useful sometimes; Seeping Wound: no; Shattering Assault: same as Fox's; WotA: Dagger crits are poo.

Also, Demonic Flesh will probably never be worth it. The most you can get out of it is 13 or 14 AoE DPS (3 attack skills, one with a 3 second recharge+0.33 activation, so 15 X 3/3.33=13.5). ــѕт.мıкε 17:23, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Tl;dr but I'm pretty sure maths doesn't make things good. :> LessQQ moreQQ 21:53, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
Summary: Asuran Scan+Unsuspecting Strike=168 armor-ignoring damage. It's hard on the Energy, buttfuck Elites, and use Golden Lotus Strike or Black Lotus Strike. Shit will also die before you can charge "SY!" ــѕт.мıкε 22:29, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
K, I, and i'm pretty sure most people looking here, prefer just spamming 123. I mean, it's only PvE afterall. And not being able to get "SY!" up is a pretty bad drawback tbh, although it will probably charge while your auto-ing b/c you've got no enrgy left b/c you didn't bring Brawling + Falling Lotus. <3
Oh, and I buttfuck elites anyway. LessQQ moreQQ 08:43, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

By Ural's in variants.

BuH should be in variants IMO. Used with WoTA, Strength of Honor, Great Dwarf Weapon, Asuran Scan and Order of Pain... you're looking at 200+DPS.Roarer 17:58, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

I agree, it's a flat 25% increase in dps while it's up, and affects weapon/crit damage, attack skill damage, and the damage of buffs others put on you like SoH. Sure it's not as hax as asuran scan but it's still good. Necromas 18:33, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
I did put it in there, but it was removed after ~5mins due to the fact that 'By Ural's sucks on Physicals dude' gonna go pay the master of damage a visit and get some numbers.Roarer 19:56, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
Decided to compare vs "I am the strongest" as this is another variant.
I used my normal Assassin PvE build, with Norn Rank 7, Delver rank 5 and I've just noticed I was using +5e daggers which weren't customised, will probably repeat the test to prove BuH's superiority... but anyway:
Results:
BuH: 1] 17,582 over 180 = 97 DPS --- 2] 17,126 over 180 = 95 DPS Ave = 96 DPS.
Iats: 1] 17,405 over 180 = 96 DPS --- 2] 17,308 over 180 = 96 DPS Ave = 96 DPS.
I think this shows that BuH SHOULD be in variants. Considering also that there was nothing around to extend the BuH duration.Roarer 20:30, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
Lol masterofdamage. Spaggage talk 20:33, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
Sometimes you have to post hard facts to show people something which seems obvious to others.Roarer 20:35, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
You could argue that iats is more effective because it's time isn't wasted by running after enemies. Anyways, should probably be in variants, but it's by no means the best option. Life Guardian 20:44, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
Possibly. But chances are if you're playing with minions and/or spirits you'll be able to upkeep BuH more than the standard time. Also, shadowstep can be used to fix that problem if you wish to take one. I just wanted to do this to prove to people why I put it in variants, and also to show that it shouldn't have been removed.Roarer 20:49, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
there's better skills you can bring than buh--Relyk talk 00:19, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
if you got spirits ect around then you can often easily cause BuH's duration to outlast its recharge. a flat 25% boost is nice...BUT, its fighting for a slot with crit agility, asuran scan and SY, thats why its a bitch to fit into a bar. >>Jayson<<< 02:27, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
Unless you've got an Imbagon or someone else maintaining "SY!" with you, it's not worth it. It will affect the AoE from DB, but a scythe would benefit a lot more from "BUH!", and you can only use DB as often as you use Fox Fangs: once every 3.333...3 seconds. ــѕт.мıкε 11:19, April 21, 2010 (UTC)
People are telling me that "By Ural's is not the best option." or "There's better skills to take than BuH" Well that may be the case, but it is also the case for all variants in any build: Depending on the situation and/or team you're with, different PvE skills give different results. I'm not saying its the best. I'm saying that it deserves to be in variants. Also, the critical agility point again is dependant on your team, as I usually play with ER protters EoCs are used and WoTA gets you up to 33%. Which allows you to take 2 PvE skills to boost damage if you're spamming SY!Roarer 12:35, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Locust"s Fury

I tried this build with Locust's fury and "SY!" as optional skills. With the IAS from Critical Agility and the double strikes from Locust's it's possible to use "SY!" more frequently, thus protecting your party more with +100 AL. Turned out great for me at least. --81.246.186.34 19:32, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

you should be spamming the shit out of your attack chain, not auto attacking...Lf is bad. DOESNT affect attack skills..:::Jayson::: 20:00, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
You still have 2 auto-attacks per chain (Jagged->Fox Fangs->Death Blossom->Jagged->Auto-attack->Auto-attack->restart); with Locust's Fury, each auto-attack will have an 80% chance to double strike, netting 0.5 more attacks (1.8-1.3=0.5) than without Locust's Fury per auto-attack, so one more attack than usual per cycle (8.6 total, on average), which takes 3.66666 seconds: 2.345454 attacks per second, where your usual is 2.07272 attacks per second. The difference isn't huge but still noticeable. ــѕт.мıкε 20:23, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
thats true but 1 extra attack per 4 seconds if it procs in optimal conditions without lag hitting skills on perfect timing, still isnt worth taking and wont make a shit of difference in keeping sy up, especially when your target should be dead after 1 chain anyway, then you change target, rinse repeat if there are any to kill, the time to change target negates the need to auto attack unless the player/team blows balls and cant buff/kill worth shit, and if your target has a lot of hp, then mb gives better outputs for continuous mb>db>mb>db. Really just doesnt cut it as an elite worth takin for this when you use it :( from exp :::Jayson::: 22:02, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, locust's Fury is crap. Overkill in the sense that you need either extra energy to spam and extra adrenaline to spam SY. It will be active very rarely, and if you try to milk it you lose extra single-target DPS from attack skills and AoE damage from Death Blossom. Pointless skill is pointless; there is a thread about it's pointlessness on Guru in the Campfire->Assassin forum.MinionSplinter WeaponExcluded 21:51, May 3, 2010 (UTC)

Meta

have you met PvE?MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 22:34, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

PuGs hate sins of any kind. --Jimp WhiteAsIce 05:15, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
I hate it when players join a PUG with a bad build. I'm certain you're wrong, anyway.MinionMinion sig k bish 09:36, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Wastrel´s

Seeing as this doesnt have any "real" Elit, why not just get some fun/halfway useful mobility through WC, KD is secondary effect but still nice when it triggers. Could maby be added to Variants. Be carful with running in Pugs though cuz monks will rage becous of the overextending. 193.235.25.18 09:35, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Because it's not even "halfway useful." Shadowsteps are fairly useless for offensive purposes in PvE. The KD isn't that useful either. Tru...hardly working 12:06, July 19, 2010 (UTC)

Critical Defense

Why isn't critical defense listed in variants. In my opinion this build hasn't got any survival skills except if you take Flashing Blades. I think is better to take Critical defense for more survivability instead of I Am the Strongest or BuH.3:44, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

You don't need survivability on your own bar if you set up your heroes decently with heals and prots. Feel free to add it as a variant, just not mainbar. ToraenTheJanitorToraenSig2 01:10, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Battle Rage

Keeping in mind that it ends on any non-adrenal skill use, this means that you can't be spamming DB while it is on. BR seems like it would only be useful just to maintain SY! through autoattacking. Since I would lose massive DPS as a result, I say it should be removed. Of course an admin would post that, meaning it can't be reverted. --Jimp WhiteAsIce 08:35, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

If an edit is wrong, it's wrong. You can revert once, and bring it up on the talk page (as you did). Also, Relyk is not an admin :/. --Toraen 14:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
And Frosty got it. --Toraen 14:23, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Don't be afraid to make a change to a build, especially when you are clearly right. I have done it for you. Good spot. frostels 14:24, October 11, 2010 (UTC)
You do realize he's wrong frosty?--Relyk not@Wikia 22:31, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
Explain why Brage should stay then. --Toraen 22:50, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
You use it for running from enemy to enemy instead of dash. i also use it to chain brawling headbutt for damage and interruption. you can also just spam brawling headbutt to knocklock enemies. It's only active during downtime so you dont lose dps. Also zzz--Relyk not@Wikia 23:27, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
Just take fucking Dark Fury on a rit or ele and stop taking shitty elites. If you want an IAS, bring Dash. If you want to spam KD's, don't be a dick and use attack skills (which are basically IAS's here on their own) instead of just autoattacking. Dead > KD'd. --Jai. - 02:46, October 16 2010 (UTC)
nope--Relyk not@Wikia 04:55, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
Drunken Master>Dash. MinionMinion sig k bish 05:31, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
Community content is available under CC-BY-NC-SA 2.5 unless otherwise noted.