Talk: Mo/any Holy Haste LoD Healer

Improvements

Since you already have Holy Haste I'd switch Smite Hex for Deny Hexes. Same recharge, same Energy Cost same cast time but with Deny Hexes you can remove up to two hex. I'd also change Dismiss to Mend Condition. I know that this also is listed under variants, but I think Mend is clearly superior when you already have Healing Touch. 84.136.201.46 18:47, 13 July 2007 (CEST)

You're not going to recast Holy Haste every 10 seconds. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 19:04, 25 July 2007 (CEST)

I don't think pre-veiling is particularly useful in PvE. Deny has the same stats and may remove 2 hexes.Asdfg 14:22, 31 July 2007 (CEST)

I'm not really a fan of Words of Comfort. Dwayna's Kiss is powerful because every hex and enchantment increases its healing capacity, but WoC only gets one boost max. Orison of Healing has a higher base heal, and half the recharge, which I imagine would be more useful for a spamming build like this. 404notfound 10:05, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

Erm, whoops, I just alt-tabbed back to GW and realized I had a slightly different setup, with WoC in place of Healing Touch. I guess you can disregard this. 404notfound 10:10, 4 August 2007 (CEST)

remove hex is now 2 leet 4 u so rapta did the smart thing and added it. gg —The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 05:24, 10 August 2007 (CEST)

Surely Cure Hex is a better option than Remove Hex in this build now? --Symeon

Yep. Cure Hex should be part of any healer build that includes hex removal.Jwideman 13:05, 8 September 2007 (CEST)

This works in pvp (Res chant not needed in AB or CM)FearDrake! 21:24, 3 November 2007 (CET)

Skill

Restore Life. Is this some kind of sick, twisted joke? Holy Haste means Res Chant is by FAR better. It has more range, res-es the target with MORE hp, and with Holy Haste, the cast time is what, 3 seconds?

Ya, definetely. its like the same casting time as rez signet but its better and reusable.

So that's what I was going to do on this page! -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 04:35, 8 August 2007 (CEST)

Res Chant, Restore Life and Renew Life are all in the Healing Prayers line and have 6 seconds cast. I'll add some variations. Asdfg 13:13, 9 August 2007 (CEST)

The fast cast implies a mid battle res. Because 66% health is a fair amount Restore Life would likely be better, because the target comes back with most of there energy , something like 88% . This means if an ele goes down mid battle they can be resed and continue to cast because they have 55% more energy than if you use chant. You can't restore energy with a spell, but you can restore health so aside from the range issues, which are important, I like Restore Life. 58.110.139.185 08:23, 12 November 2007 (CET)

Because you don't die from running into the frontline to res? -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 08:32, 12 November 2007 (CET)

Hero

So.. how well does this work with heroes? The "usage" notes are a little extensive, I'd be worried about the AI being able to use this to its full potential.

I can't imagine there being any issues, they only have to cast/keep up 1 enchant and they can't end it themselves, as there's no other enchant on the bar. --Hikari 00:39, 14 August 2007 (CEST)

Dunkoro loves it. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 04:51, 14 August 2007 (CEST)

None of the Monk heroes seem to want to keep Holy Haste up, so people using this build should be aware that they will have to manually cast this enchantment. Not a big deal, as this build is extremely effective, but something to be aware of nonetheless. Madriel222 07:27, 13 September 2007 (CEST)

I have no problem with my Monk heroes holding up Holy Haste. They only use it when needed, when multiple allies are under attack. 84.87.168.39 08:49, 13 September 2007 (CEST)

I've yet to test this myself, but I'd assume they'd be fine. My ele heroes maintain their attribute's attunement very well, even going to pains to recast it when it's competely unneeded, so I wouldn't imagine Holy Haste having any problems.24.186.207.198 07:02, 14 September 2007 (CEST)

Ogden seems to eat his energy up in seconds, I have no idea why, I've watched him cast and it doesn't seem like he's doing anything wrong, maybe I've just made a stupid mistakes 71.37.103.28 23:21, 16 October 2007 (CEST)

I dislike using Healing Touch on my heroes as they tend to get killed running into mobs to heal melee fighters.

Tested this out on Dunkoro the other night, he hardly runs out of energy. When combined with Mhenlo, I ran two ares killed everything earned another Norn and Aura rank dying only twice and that only because I didnt pay attention to the mob of vaettir that spawned behind me -_- --BeeD 04:22, 16 November 2007 (CET)

For hero, replace Healing Touch with Orison of Healing or Healing Whisper. Also replace Holy Haste with Divine Spirit (and with 20% enchant wrapping) or any Mesmer Inspiration energy skill (Power Drain; Waste Not, Want Not; Channeling [particularly with half-range/touch skills], etc.) for hero usage. Surprise Vaettir shouldn't be able to kill you...twice. Rolo 17:51, 3 January 2008 (EST)

lol

I just saw a vZ monk using LoD, Holy Haste, Dwayna's Kiss, Words of Comfort, Jamei's Gaze, Dismiss, Remove Hex and Sig of Rejuvenation Asdfg 02:02, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

GW:EN

maybe put cure hex instead of remove hex? seems like a better skill and it gets the half casting time from holy haste.

True, but not everyone has GW:EN, so it's the variants. --Swift Thief 14:46, 9 September 2007 (CEST)

Not everyone has nightfall but ZB's on the main bar. The main bar is supposed to be the good one and the variants having the half decent options, not the other way around. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 05:58, 12 September 2007 (CEST)

Prot hero?

You've got your best healer hero here, but what should I use for prot? I'm using a standard SoR but there's gotta be something better. Any ideas? RustyTheMesmer 22:19, 26 October 2007 (CEST)

Meh heroes use SoR really well. I use Life Sheath on my heroes — Skakid9090 19:14, 28 October 2007 (CET)

Use the great hero prot monk build, currently: Mo/Me Blessed Light Hero. By SoR i gather you mean Shield of Regen and not, say, Signet of Removal - War Pig5 17:10, 22 December 2007 (EST)

The Blessed Light Hero build (with rez) works very well with this. Rolo 17:53, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Nerf

It has been nerfed, o faithful LoD, well slightly longer cast time less heal but the heal is unconditional. FearDrake! 04:41, 11 November 2007 (CET)

The build is still usable post-nerf, but it's pretty meh. You never want to cast LoD without HH on you. I'd rather use one of the buffed elites (WoH, HB, Glimmer), especially on a hero. Nyktos (talk · contribs) 05:09, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Still works. --Usual 22:48, 15 November 2007 (CET)

It still works, but not as well as it used to. I think that it could eventually be rated down to a "Good" rating. --GuildofDeals 22:40, 11 December 2007 (CET)

Agree. Voted it 3, this is now 4.47/5 so moved. --Usual 17:29, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Completely disagree and, in any case, a 0-0-0 vote is completely uncalled for! 0-0-0 = hopeless and that does not fit here whether you think LoD is less effective or not. Usual, you agreed that it warrants a Good rating (3.5 to <4.5) but you voted Other (2.5 to <3.5) on all three categories...?

People are taking their whinings about Anet onto this build, corrupting the results. Stay objective with your votes and don't overcompensate to sway the overall average; if you think its a 3, then vote '3', not 'whatever number brings the overall total down to 3'; that is dishonest and is against PvX:VETTING.

LoD was changed, not nerfed. If you can't heal with the new LoD, then you suck, not the build. At 16 Healing Prayers, LoD dropped from 85 to 74; an 11-point reduction does not kill LoD or this build. A 1-sec cast-time (mitigated by Holy Haste) is typical anyway, not a build-killer. Not having the <80% health condition anymore enables the LoD healer to better maintain party health against spikes/party damage while pacing to manage energy expenditure better--a buff to this build.

Cure Hex replaced Remove Hex making the hex removal heal for +126 health; did everyone increase their rating for that? Probably not.

Don't slam a Great build because of 11 freakin' health points and 1-sec longer cast time. Rolo 21:24, 3 January 2008 (EST)

I tend to agree...the 0-0-0 vote should be removed because this build is defenently not a 0-0-0 build. Honestly...if the whole community thought that LoD sucked then there is no way that the pre-nerfed LoD build would have been vetted in the Great Catagory anyways. Rolo is right, if your whinning over 11 health and a little bit longer casting, then you must be standing next to your warriors while healing, which i don't have to say is a bad idea, even for a stupid monk. Hero's use this just fine, anyone can use this just fine, so I cannot see the immediate problem.Thomas Malakier 14:50, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Why are you running 16 healing prayers? And why are you running an LoD that's liable to be interrupted half the time? This is a PvE hero build now, nothing more. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 15:00, 5 January 2008 (EST)

I don't run 16 Heal Prayers, but the build page does (I recommend 15) and I'll remind everyone that we are rating this build and not the singular LoD skill. (cf. PvX:VETTING) --Rolo 16:08, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Correction: I do use Superior Healing Prayers for maximum heal output; a monk can keep himself healed along with the rest of the party. --Rolo 08:24, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Interrupted half the time? How? How any more than what other build? Heal Party has the same casting time and I'd rather have a 5-cost skill interrupted than a 15-cost one. WoH? 3/4-sec vs. 1-sec? (unless you have a Holy Hasted WoH, which would be silly) Additionally, WoH is a reactive heal, LoD is a proactive heal--which would you rather have interrupted, the on you need or the one you really need now? Finally, LoD has a range greater than casters and even rangers; with LoD, you can 'hide and heal', with others, you are bound by their position. Don't get me wrong, I like those other skills and also use them as well as LoD. I would assert that anyone who thinks LoD sucks either simply doesn't know how to use it effectively or it just doesn't fit the player's style. (That's not an insult--there are several skills I doubt I'll ever employ effectively, either because I'm retarded with it or simply have no interest in it.) --Rolo 16:08, 5 January 2008 (EST)

LoD sucks because without Holy Haste, you're going to have it interrupted a lot (a ranger who doesn't see you moving back to use it and dshots you is retarded, and when you move back you put the rest of the team at risk), and holy haste will be stripped as soon as they see an enchantment on your monk. In PvE, it works relatively well, but then, so does anything. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 16:37, 5 January 2008 (EST)

This is a PvE build! PvP does not apply! --Rolo 17:07, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Exactly my point? -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 19:41, 5 January 2008 (EST)

You said, "(a ranger who doesn't see you moving back to use it and dshots you is retarded, and when you move back you put the rest of the team at risk)", which you agreed does not apply to PvE and, in turn, this build. Additionally, an LoD monk falling back can still heal the party, which is one of the merits of this build. I fail to see how those PvP arguments apply to this PvE-only build. I also fail to see any argument (whether agreed upon or not) that justifies a 0-0-0 vote. --Rolo 10:05, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Equipment

A 20 +5 Energy wand and 20 +12 Energy +30 health focus item are better than the recommended staff, no?

It's PvE. Who cares? — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:41, 20 December 2007 (EST)

Who cares?? What is that supposed to mean?

More energy is most important for a monk, followed by more armour or more health. Specific to a Holy Haste build, extra HCT and HSR seem to be wasted upgrades; however, it does have three 5-second and one 3-second recharge heals...may be necessary to mitigate those times (but I like consistancy; I don't like chances). To that end, Drok's items provide better Healing Prayers recharge time mitigation.

I would recommend the following change to equipment for 8 more energy and 30 more HP:

• Any HSR 20%, Energy +5, Energy +5 (HP>50%), HP +30 staff (i.e. Staff of the Forgotten)

--Rolo 15:07, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Replace Healing Touch?

I use Orison of Healing instead of Healing Touch on my monk and on my hero monks. "I'm not going in there!" and I don't want Dunkoro going into the heat of things either and I don't care if he planned it that way! I trade 32 healing HP/5 sec recharge for the additional ranged heal and better availability/recharge time (5-5-5-3 to 5-5-3-2 times) and won't rely on HCT/HSR weapons. If I'm getting attacked, Healing Touch doesn't cut it. Thoughts? Rolo 15:07, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Dunkoro is horribad with touch as a general rule, but if you're being attacked there's nothing (short an elite) in the game that'll save you like HT will (assuming all you need is a straight heal). -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 01:50, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Energy Management

For thicker combat and for the Hero AI, I've found Divine Spirit to be useful over Holy Haste. How about adding...

• Replace Holy Haste with Divine Spirit for energy-demanding scenarios.

...to the Variants? (I added it, but it got reverted; is there a link to further guidance on editing? PvX:EB leaves much to opinion and I'm new.)

Raises flag here: The "Replace Holy Haste with Divine Spirit for energy-demanding scenarios." variant was reverted because it "changes the build" but the non-specific "consider equipping Glyph of Lesser Energy" and "consider Leech Signet or Power Drain" (what..you have nine skill slots?) got un-reverted. Which is it?

With the ones that stayed, you can drop a heal or something. Divine Spirit would greatly change the nature of the build (it is, after all, a holy haste healer...), and divine spirit sucks anyway. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 16:39, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Let me get this straight, "Dropping a heal or something" would not change a healer build, but dropping a HCT skill in favour of an energy management one would "greatly change the nature" of said healer? "Dropping a heal or something" in favour of interrupts doesn't make a fundamental change to the build? You would have to agree to both or neither.

Divine Spirit sucks?

• GoLE would not be effective since your spammable skills all cost 5; you would only save 5 energy every 31 seconds at the expense of, assuming, Holy Haste.
• Leech Signet would only provide 3 energy/30 seconds.
• Power Drain would cost 4 energy/20 seconds.

OTOH,

• If you cast Divine Spirit, you are in a crunch and you can cast 8 spells easily for the total, absolute cost of 8, an effective gain of 32 energy. Throw in a 20% enchant staff wrapping for ~40 energy--practically an entire energy bar.

Ergo,

I motion to 1) add "*Replace Holy Haste with Divine Spirit for energy-demanding scenarios or for hero usage." and 2) remove the GoLE, Leech/Drain variants.

Is this PvX:VETTING or PvX:What sysops think goes unconditionally? --Rolo 17:05, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Unless there's a consensus to show 32 < 5, 32 < 3, and 32 < -4, those edits need to go. Unless there's a consensus that DS sucks or that DS variant warrants a completely new build page, it needs to be un-reverted. --Rolo 10:14, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Well yeah, it undermines the purpose of this build. You can't use Holy Haste. And in most cases, energy management here isn't even needed, if you're not completely horribad at monking. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 13:26, 6 January 2008 (EST)

No. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 13:29, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Healers can easily manage if they drop a heal, assuming they don't fail. They also (sort of) make up for it by being an annoyance with their interrupts. If you want to make a LoD/DS build, go ahead, but this is a LoD/HOLY HASTE build. -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 15:43, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Got it--Keep HH/LoD, hack everything else including runes OK. BTW, In rev history, I am affiliated with adding the Healer's Boon/Heal party variant; I only edited what was already there. --Rolo 00:44, 7 January 2008 (EST)

Rune of Minor Protection debatable

Increasing the healing of Dismiss Condition by 4 health seems to me not the best use of a rune slot. Either health or energy runes seem better here... any opinions?--War Pig5 18:38, 11 January 2008 (EST)

No. But don't change it here. Change it on your character. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:40, 11 January 2008 (EST)

Heaven forbid we discuss the build on the build's discussion page. The Minor Healing rune isn't debatable either since that was changed without discussion. The "official" line is that the 11-point "nerf" renders the build useless, but a self-inflicted 15-point LoD nerf is fully endorsed by PvX staff.

If you want to know which build was actually vetted, you'll have to view the build's history. --Rolo 08:24, 12 January 2008 (EST)

I'm sorry, but what the fuck are you on about? -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 16:05, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Nerfed again?

LoD now 1s cast, 10s recharge. Spoils the point of the build, a little... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.242.247.128 (contribs) 12:01, 7 February 2008.

Removed my rating because it was wrong, but LoD isnt very usable now. --Usual 19:00, 7 February 2008 (EST)

I agree. Deserves an archive. Party healing all around get a blow. --GuildofDeals 16:49, 8 February 2008 (EST)

What are you talking about? — Rapta (talk|contribs) 16:57, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Delete

I think this should be removed to the archive, because LoD has been nerfed once again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.163.148.223 (contribs) 12:00, 7 February 2008.

Delete=/=Archive, but yes, being done. ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:55, 8 February 2008 (EST)

What's this about? — Rapta (talk|contribs) 16:56, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Eh? ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:57, 8 February 2008 (EST)

No need for FC anymore, recharge go nerfed, cast got buffed. ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:58, 8 February 2008 (EST)

This was vetted when LoD was 1s cast. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:01, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Also, I heard you can run 40/40 sets to make overall recharge lower. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:01, 8 February 2008 (EST)

10 sec recharge is quite... massive. Godbox 11:56, 15 February 2008 (EST)

It got vetted at one sec cast, but 5 recharge...or was it three... Sigh LoD has been gone so long I can't remember >.< Justing6 02:14, 17 February 2008 (EST)

I'm still trying to figure out why this build is rated so high. No prot besides dismiss? Since when pushing red bars up become an acceptable way to monk? I'd delete it based solely on that. Racthoh 02:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)

It's a PvE-only build, in which all your prot is off-monk (or at least enough of it that you can afford to run a dedicated healer). -- Armond Warblade{{sysop}} 02:29, 17 February 2008 (EST)

As much I would encourage the use of SY gons/passive defense people should learn that Prot Spirit is a much better way of dealing with boss nukes than trying to push the bar back up. Proactive play > reactive play. Racthoh 02:36, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Yeah, who needs heals anyway? If the warrior dies from those level 28 mobs, he's just a fucking noob. --71.229 02:42, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Real warriors rely on the healing of their vamp weapons to stay alive. Racthoh 03:10, 17 February 2008 (EST)

Hell, I don't even need that when I tank anymore. I just whip my cock titles out and everything kind of collapses. :O --71.229 03:13, 17 February 2008 (EST)

How about we just turn it to trial already... Justing6 18:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Probably not needed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:58, 18 February 2008 (EST)

Feb 08 nerf - time to rethink

I think it is clear that this needs to go back to trial, or be archived. The tag on the page has been up for 2 weeks what are we waiting for? -Myth 18:14, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Removed tag. Build will probably stay. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 18:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)

10 seconds downtime is kind of killing imo. Godbox 15:52, 22 February 2008 (EST)

You can do more than just spam LoD. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 15:57, 22 February 2008 (EST)

No. Godbox 16:50, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Then you'd be bad. At PvE. Which is not really possible. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:07, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Still, the elite is practically pointless. It heals for so little every 10 seconds. Honestly, it's not that good anymore. --GuildofDeals 17:12, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Cheap and quick Party healing is bad? TBH, if you want a faster recharge, take a 40/40 set. That's probably not even needed. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:15, 22 February 2008 (EST)

Or you could HB heal party.--AESTHETIC

I agree that this build needs some reconsideration in light of recent skills changes. --70.129.201.103 21:07, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

I use this build for my heroes. it works pretty good.

Separation of PvE/PvP Skills

Seems to make this build viable again. Unconditional party heal, 6sec recharge. What do everyone think? Jedifish 00:14, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

No, because LoD is 1s cast. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:10, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Hasn't LoD always been a 1sec cast skill? The aim of Holy Haste is to bring the casting time down to 0.5sec.Jedifish 02:41, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

No, it was changed to 2 second cast. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 15:40, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I must have missed something, I thought the current LoD is a 1sec cast spell?Jedifish 16:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

It is. This was made to counter the change to a 2s cast, which was then undone. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   16:29, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I don't really care much for Holy Haste because it doesn't allow you to use Patient Spirit, Healing Seed or Seed of Life without having to recast Holy Haste. LoD is still just mediocre when compared to Heal Party+GoLE+HB, although when you use Arcane Mimicry on a Monk with Healer's Boon, it works great. -Mike 16:36, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

(Readjusting Indent) While I certainly agree that GoLE+HP+HB provides a larger heal, the drawback comes from the fact that GoLE has a recharge of 30 seconds that cannot be shortened through the use of a weapon set, whereas one can simply spam LoD to their heart's content. Furthermore, Heroes are terrible at using GoLE accordingly, while they are fairly efficient when using this build. This is not to say that the Holy Hasted Healer is better than the HB Monk, but I simply feel that both builds have their own weaknesses and strengths and I see no reason why this build shouldn't be moved out of the archives.Jedifish 19:34, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

You don't need Holy Haste to make LoD 1/2s cast. It's pointless. Patient Spirit is good, and you can't use that with Holy Haste. This is the "reason" you don't see. — Rapta (talk|contribs) 17:03, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, we'd be better off making a new LoD build, unless we've already got one. Plus, LoD+HB (through Arcane Mimicry) seems to be pretty popular lately, anyway. -Mike 17:12, 28 May 2008 (EDT)