Archive talk:Mo/any WoH Arena Monk/Archive 1

Probably to be WELL'd or whatever. It was made by Napalm way back when, but it's honestly quite good. Discuss. --*Wah Wah Wah!* 11:19, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Bullshit, how comes GoD gets the great rating while Napalm anticipated a meta and got unfavoured? —[Col.]N.Fツ 09:32, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Even with Wild Blow on my RaO Axer, I couldn't get through, and even when both of his stances were down, I had no adren, it's pretty effective. Frosty No U! 11:20, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Dual stance is teh suck, shield bash + disciplined is bettar--GoldenStar 12:05, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Gogogo Rangers. Dual stance is nice. --*Wah Wah Wah!* 12:06, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Gogo rigor + cover. Then your stances become big lulz--GoldenStar 12:07, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

And against a magebane it doesn't batter how many block stance you bring--GoldenStar 12:08, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Veil > Rigor? Frosty No U! 12:08, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Meh I'd still rather have shield bash for OMFGWTFBBQPWNing sin/hammer chains--GoldenStar 12:12, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

the attributes are wrong imo, get 11+1+1 for healing prayers, and 9 on tactics and divine favor Drownz 12:18, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Dejavu

U stole that build from the monk that let us all die :D-- 12:13, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Well he sucked at Monking. --*Wah Wah Wah!* 12:18, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

lol

fastest vetting, eva. 54 minutes from being submitted to being put into the Good category. ^^ ــмıкεнaшк 12:15, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Wow, that was fast... There's been like a few that have been half an hour though TBH. --*Wah Wah Wah!* 12:18, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

15 mins from testing to good. Frosty No U! 12:26, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Shield Bash

It's not better. Shield Bash is great for countering sin chains, but Shield Stance makes you unkillable by any melee. The movement restriction is nothing in TA, you never have to push for an overextended warrior since there's nowhere to extend to. They both have their strong points. —SkaKid 16:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Shield Bash disables Shattering Assault Sins (and melee's chains), but other than that, they're pretty much even. ــмıкεнaшк 18:09, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

TBH, sins aren't too plentiful in TA anymore since I've been playing (more as of recently). RaO Axers and standard Warriors are all the rage. Shield Bash is a wrench in their gears, but I perfer tons of block instead. --*Wah Wah Wah!* 18:59, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

You can't gain adrenaline if you can't hit. Blocking hurts Warriors and Paragons more than anyone else, tbh. ــмıкεнaшк 19:04, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

BULLSHIT

Didn't Napalm put up a Mo/W dualstanced WoH that was pretty much the same as this that was unfavoured? So i herd apparently dualstance monking is baed. —[Col.]N.Fツ 09:31, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Anything Napalm submitted will have been a long time ago. Metas change. —Tab McPiplup ツ 11:37, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Good point, but it was pretty gud back then. Gotta admit it is a lot better now though. —[Col.]N.Fツ 11:41, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Napalm made this ages ago, I just gave it some justice. That was probably from pre-EotN. -- Guild of Deals 15:23, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

Merge

Discuss. --Frosty 07:42, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

Merging with the shield bash monk makes perfect sense; they are practically the same, except one has bash and the other has shield stance. The rest of the differences are easy variants. 70.108.172.107 17:12, 5 November 2008 (EST)

I generalized the bar for both things and took away the merge with the Shadow Arts variant. The bars are rather different at that point. -- Guild of Deals 17:44, 5 November 2008 (EST) I agreeRelic 16:26, 19 November 2008 (EST) Retrieved from "http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build_talk:Mo/W_Disciplined_Stance_WoH"

I agree. I also added the AB tag to this build. Reason: the Shield Bash article had it, and this build article now contains that build as a variant.--War_Pig5 08:35, 7 January 2009 (EST) definitely merge. 70.27.0.90 01:30, 28 January 2009 (EST)

Archive

Mark of Insecurity has made this build a joke and hundred blades hits right through blocks. Both are meta -- not to mention whirling axe(since it sucks). (Timcago 17:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)).

l2pre-veil, l2kite. --Frosty 17:14, 20 December 2008 (EST)

True, but don't you think a 1 stance monk is better after the december 12 updates?

You bring either Dual Stance or Disciplined/Shield Bash. Both work fine (Shield Bash possibly a little more with Mark of Fucked and Palm Strike). This still works fine as long as you're smart enough. -- Guild of Deals 08:16, 28 January 2009 (EST)

3 of 8 skills entirely dedicated to blockable damage in RA = fail in current meta with plenty of AoE hexes. One VoR mesmer or lingering necro means certain death to a then-helpless monk, because they circumvent pre-veiling. VS + CoP (or similar) ftw. --82.83.37.51 08:05, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

It's really more of the TA bar version because we don't care about RA. - Misery Says Moo 08:07, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

No it still rolls RA, you'd be lucky to have a lingering necro and vor mesmer on you at same time, but that means they would be halfway decent, which means your team is going to lose anyways attacking through insidious and empathy--Relyk 08:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

It does still roll RA, but it's not the exact bar I would take there. That being said I wouldn't take this bar exactly in TA too, I would be dropping Dismiss for Vigorous because condition removal would be elsewhere in the team. I discussed this at some point but someone was like blah blah blah you won't always have a necro or a smite monk. - Misery Says Moo 08:13, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Still hits 3 sec break obaby FrostytheAdmin 16:27, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Shield Stance

That's all. Now stop being terrible. 128.255.216.144 21:51, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

since i'm a nooby monk i need to know

is the one second nurf on tactic stances that big a deal? Or is it actually a semi-fairish nerf?--UnderGunned 03:51, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

its not that big of a deal. --Drah 04:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

woh TA has balanced and bonetti's now. --Readem 21:17, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know, I prefer shield stance tbh.uɐɟɐʞıd 21:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

I prefer running Shield Bash with Disciplined or Disciplined with Shield Stance. Depends on if I feel the need to piss off melee with 7 seconds of 75% block chance. I never saw why people liked Bonetti's. It takes a while to charge up. 15:48, 23 March 2009

Why dont people use protector's defense in ta?--Relyk 15:50, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

they feel the need to kite, even with block stances on, when they shud heal when they use those instead.--BLUE SMASH ALL 02:21, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Shut up blue you're really terrible. Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:36, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The recharge is pretty ass. Misery Says Moo 17:43, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

wait 20 seconds instead of 12 for a stance that lasts 3 times longer?--Relyk 04:20, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

And why do you need a long block stance? Especially one that eliminates kiting? uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 04:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

cause then they cant hit u ^_^--Relyk 04:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Or don't be bad and learn how to kite?uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 04:34, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

urite, shield stance in ta is bad!--Relyk 04:48, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Shield stance still allows you to kite, and it's mainly for knockdowns anyway. Protector's defense means you are pretty much stuck in one spot for 9 seconds, and that's dumb. So basically people just ignore for 10 seconds, then they have 20 seconds all to themselves to kill you.uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 05:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

that's why you take shield stance and protector's defense imo. allows you to catch up on healing, plenty of blocking, recharges are almost never a problem. In fact, when i run it in RA, where ppl always just go straight for monk, i run disciplined, shield, and protectors, and spec 9 in tactics. and i drop guardian, no need. its as short as stances with a terrible cast. enchnt strips are meta. my bar in RA is WoH, Patient, Mend Condition (for the recharge and i have 3+1 specced in prot), cure hex, holy veil, disciplined, shield, protectors. i can almost maintain block stances. patient and WoH is more than enough healing. the quick recharge on mend cond means conditions arent a problem, unless they're on you, but conditions alone cant kill you, and no melee makes it tough. Daze is the worst condition monks face, but its not as if a monk with daze can use the 5/4s cast of dismiss to remove it anyway, just stance and cast, or wait. dual 12s recharge hex removal, both target other and one with precast takes care of hexes. i like it One Who Brings Soot 00:58, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't like it. Prots are huge in RA/TA, and not running Guardian is just unsmart. Sure, you can use three skills to semi-maintain 75% block, or use can use one for a perma-50% block, and have two slots open for more prots or simply self-defense. Cause not everyone in RA is stupid enough to keep on a monk who's chaining stances, and they'll just switch targets so you're stuck trying to heal through everything with Patient and Word. GG's. --Jaigoda 02:30, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Smoke Powder Defense?

in variants? Basically the Mo/A's answer to lack of SB. --    Gah     QQ  ·  I did wut?!   00:24, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Just use return and dark escape to pew pew around. Drah McNinja 00:27, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Scorpion Wire

Offensive Kiting fucking rocks socks.--IkimonoNeeds more Paragon 13:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Vig Spirit

I think it sucks balls, for RA at least. Heal over time is bad because often it's just going to overheal, and most of the time you'll want the big heal from Patient/Word anyway. Yeah, it's freaking awesome on paper, but to me it just saps your energy for less bang for your buck than your other heals. Maybe I just suck, but something like Sig Rejuv, SoA, or SB looks much more attractive to me. Also, no one runs dual stance nemoar. --Jaigoda 04:11, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I easily outheal LC with vig spirit and single hex removal(WoH). What makes you think it is bad?uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 04:14, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Because to me, it just doesn't have anough use to fit in an EXTREMELY cramped monk bar. Yeah, maybe it can handle LC or poison, but so can Sig Rejuv/Word/Patient for relatively similar energy, and they're actually useful outside of minor pressure. Again, I might just suck too hard to use it properly, but... --Jaigoda 04:28, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Vigorous Spirit heals an average of 150-200 at the least for a warrior; what 5 energy spell allows you to maintain itself on multiple members and eliminate so much pressure? Also, I don't think my bar is very cramped.uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 04:33, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Vig Spirit heals for an average of 150-200, but only on melee professions which save for 'Sins are pretty rarely targetted. So yeah, you might heal for that, but half will probably be overheal, and often you'll still need a Word/Patient. And I can heal for 142 with a no-cost skill that recharges every 8 seconds. I still don't see the benefits right now.. --Jaigoda 04:39, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

What do you do when your entire frontline balls in a lingering curse? -- Drah 04:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

you /hax and use withdraw with 5/.75/0 04:44, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Vig Spirit isn't a "direct" heal. It deals with degen, so dismiss is pretty much only used deep wound/blind/daze. It basically removes all pressure from the game, be it poison, bleeding, burning, LC, hexes, bla bla bla. If you have to constantly patient+woh vs 6+ degen on your entire party, your energy is going run out very fast. Vigorous Spirit does that job for you at a cheap cost.uɐɟɐʞıd o^_^o¸«` 04:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

20 energy every 30 seconds to keep it on each player (or 10 every 30 for 2 players) is 1-2 pips of energy right there. In the same 30 seconds, I could get off three FREE sigs and say, three Words/Patients, for plenty of anti-pressure. I could use the same argument for how Healing Breeze is bad: It overheals without your control, and won't heal when you really need it. Also, Sig Rejuv is still useful outside of degen pressure, while Vig Spirit has a pretty one-dimensional usage. Plus, if your RA team is balling up when there's an LC necro on the other team, you might as well just resign whether or not you have VS. --Jaigoda 04:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Enchanting spear* 20 every 36. Life 04:55, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

My bad, sorry. Even so, to me it's just another (still quite expensive) heal, where you could otherwise be bringing something more useful and/or powerful. --Jaigoda 05:02, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, maybe I'll just admit that it comes down to personal preference, because in my eyes VS is inferior, and in others' it's apparently one of the better skills in the game. Whatever. I'm going to add Signet of Rejuvenation to variants, though. --Jaigoda 05:25, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Vigorous Spirit is the best arena hex removal in the game. If you don't understand why, you are playing badly. You sure as hell don't have to maintain it on everyone at all times, but precasting it on every before the battle delays the pressure setting in. Misery Says Moo 06:46, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I've never felt that Vigorous Spirit was ever better than a free heal. If you know who to heal at what time - depending on the amount of damage coming in over a certain period of time - you can learn to use WoH + Patient Spirit to greater effect. Pre-Veiling and Pre-Protting should take care of any large amounts of hexes and damage. I'm not sure about any of you, but I'd rather Pre-veil in anticipation of Lingering Curse and remove it than rely on Vigorous Spirit. 71.251.54.118 17:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Misery does have a point, tbh, but it's more suited for TA, where you have other people who know how to help mitigate damage (which means damage is coming in slower and VS is able to keep up). I've tried using Vig Spirit, but the nature of RA just prevents it from being useful. Most people don't bring much, if any defense, and VS just doesn't heal quickly enough in the damage-rampant RA of now, and you end up needing at least one more heal or prot. For me, I'd still take Shield of Absoption or Sig Rejuv any day (though TA is a very different story). --Jaigoda 21:27, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't use it in RA, main bar is for TA where Dismiss is shit. Misery Says Moo 21:53, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

AB

May i add AB tag onto here please? Mainly because there is no WoH build in the Great section of AB :( Its pretty much the same tbh --Wingsy 16:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Saw an edit by an IP address on the 9th June that removed the AB tag from this build; i saw no reason for this (no mention on here either) so undid it. --Wingsy 17:16, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

variants

kinetic armor ftw--Relyk 23:43, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

in a corrupt enchantment meta? if you didn't run into that, it could potentially be ok due to the MB-Distortion and melee players not taking enchantment removal...but I would much rather conserve my energy rather than have to cast a spell every 8 seconds.--70.118.192.81 01:36, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

cover kinetic w/ vigorous PWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 02:08, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

^ it's pretty fucking amazing. :> ···  17:20, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

ROFL nice update yeah?

I see it coming. All the new defensive/healing dervish updates are gonna get smitebooned and split.74.244.245.144 04:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The new derv buffs are pretty OP, especially Conviction and Vow of Piety, but how well are they gonna work on a monk with Whirling Axe out there? I mean, Conviction's powerful enough it would probable get taken even if it lasted only a few seconds, but I fancy VoP will be much to expensive. 86.27.130.214 11:42, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

It's all about Armor of Sanctity, all melee attacking you deal 66% less damage, have -1 attributes and you take 15 less dagame from them melee'rs, good joke. --Frosty Mc Admin 14:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I've been hitting healers with that spell on with Eviscerate for 12 damage. Shit is FUCKING OP if you don't have condition or enchantment removal. Which Neither really help cause it has a freaking 5 second recharge (The Fuck??)--Ikimono"My beard is thick." 16:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Defy Pain; Now available for every class!--Ikimono"My beard is thick." 16:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Necro removes armor after monk casts it->warrior kds->monk doesnt have balanced stance and other stances->warrior kills monk or other team member kils another PWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 16:36, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

+ most groups do not target monk first due to heavy defenses on monks + easier to heal yourself, so it's alot better on necros and other fleshies other than monks PWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 16:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Mostly refering to RA encounters, but for TA i've been seeing shit tons of teams with 4 -/D using this spell to just lol at damage. And even if a war does a KD chain, he's still doing 66% less attack damage from weakness--Ikimono"My beard is thick." 16:46, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Shouldn't the necro ff weakness or something PWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 16:52, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

O 4 of those nvm that's retarded PWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 16:53, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Great, Monkfags are broken again for at least a month --J0™ 11:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Every caster can now be broken again for at least a month. just put 8 points into earth prayers and tada!--72.189.84.187 11:58, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

It's a good thing I use LS template to counter bs laik diss amirite? :p BlazingBurdy 03:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

yes u r awesome--Relyk 10:08, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

True story, bro. --BlazingBurdy 06:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Patient spirit

Probably still the best small heal. Anything better after the nerf to recharge? [-Lifestyle-] 13:48, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

It's one second, hurts a little but no biggie considering it heals for almost double compared to every other healing spell of it's kind. --Frosty Mc Admin

How can you ever consider it? :P--Wingsy 15:24, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

That sentence actually doesn't really work in response to that. ---Chaos- 15:26, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

[1] Weirdness. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 19:43, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Why is that weird? Symp Visage on a decent monk makes warriors and sins useless. ··· Danny Pew Pew 20:19, October 5, 2009 (UTC)

Indeed, but I was surprised to read it. Haven't even thought of doing that. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 08:00, October 6, 2009 (UTC)

Visage is terrible stop promoting it Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:24, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

mmmmmm visage *drools* --ℜĭŧz ✔ 18:04, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

danny ended up calling me bad over me saying visage is bad. apparantly no one running it for 5 years isn't enough proof for him cuz hes king of gw. Gringo 18:29, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

You clearly haven't done UW before! --Frosty 18:49, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

I am king of gw you fur-suiting faggot. Get homeschooled more. Also, Visage is best skill ever nobleurs. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:22, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Holy fuck that sounded just like something Big would say. ;o Thunda 21:29, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Visage makes me horny, but it doesn't work so well against rangers or eles, so for RA i'll be sticking to Mo/W or Mo/A.--Ikimono "...And my axe!" 22:46, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

Mo/Me for Visage so lol in RA. And btw, Physical Resistance? I just ebon set for more damage. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 11:29, November 6, 2009 (UTC)