Discuss. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 13:35, 24 November 2007 (CET)
Should be motivation shield? 
Shen(contribs) 14:00, 24 November 2007 (CET)
- Yes. Thanks. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 01:54, 25 November 2007 (CET)
Zulu's vote
LoD is terrible as a stand skill in GvG because of the cast time. Heal Party... I won't even go there. You can't really compare para to monk skills either. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 13:52, 24 November 2007 (CET)
- I know they're both bad, I'm saying Song of Restoration is worse. And if you yourself said you can't compare Paragon skills to Monk skills, why are you dedicating your elite to a mediocre heal? In my opinion Song of Purification would be better. Zulu Inuoe 20:52, 24 November 2007 (CET)
- Because people run RC in GvG now. And if you don't run a fragile emo flagger or a fragile HB flagger, then you're stuck with next to no party heals. A stand Heal Party or LoD is way too easily countered. SoP is also bad because spamming a 2 second skill at the stand is bad. It's also unreliable and clunky. So tell me how you're going to run partywide heals without compromising the versatility and efficiency of your team? — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 01:52, 25 November 2007 (CET)
zulu's vote does need to be removed. this is a midline spot that provides offense and healing, almost no one runs three monks in a gvg now unless one of them is a flagger.Alpha fireborn
02:11, 25 November 2007 (CET)
Needz watch yourself imo, para's without it fail. - 
Unexist 17:06, 28 November 2007 (CET)
- Look at variants imo ----InfestedHydralisk
(Talk*Contributions) 17:07, 28 November 2007 (CET)
- Main bar. Its just needed, gfte needs to be in variants cuz the pressure isn't that great anymore since nerf. - Unexist 17:08, 28 November 2007 (CET)
- gfte is for with vicious ----InfestedHydralisk (Talk*Contributions) 17:09, 28 November 2007 (CET)
- GFtE mainly so your secondary isn't limited and can go /Me or whatever if you want, also you hardly have the attribute points for WY to make that big a difference anyway. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 07:53, 29 November 2007 (CET)
- Rawr runs it. Drop leadership to 10, spear mastery to 10, tactics to 8 or something. - Unexist 11:45, 1 December 2007 (CET)
- That would be 10-10-10-5, which is an awkward distribution. It's in variants anyway. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 12:12, 1 December 2007 (CET)
- Leadership only needs to be 10 anyway. I'm changing it. Zuranthium 21:35, 4 December 2007 (CET)
- That would be 10-10-10-5, which is an awkward distribution. It's in variants anyway. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 12:12, 1 December 2007 (CET)
- Rawr runs it. Drop leadership to 10, spear mastery to 10, tactics to 8 or something. -
- GFtE mainly so your secondary isn't limited and can go /Me or whatever if you want, also you hardly have the attribute points for WY to make that big a difference anyway. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 07:53, 29 November 2007 (CET)
- gfte is for with vicious ----InfestedHydralisk
- Main bar. Its just needed, gfte needs to be in variants cuz the pressure isn't that great anymore since nerf. -
Aren't the runes a little overkill? I would imagine it's ok to have 13 spear mastery on a motivation paragon... Smooths 03:12, 6 December 2007 (CET)
Zuranthium's changes
just terrible. Rune suicide, crappy attribute distribution. I'd personally keep Spear of Lightning in the main bar, because this Paragon's power comes from having enough energy to spam it. Shen(contribs) 23:13, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Dual Majors on a Paragon is pretty standard. Even with the Cracked Armor on from Aggressive Refrain, you should still have +5 armor from your weapon and +16 armor and +30 Health from the Shield, giving you 81 Armor and 530 Health as a midliner. Spear of Lightning doesn't need to be in the main bar at all. Some people prefer Harrier's Toss, some people prefer Wild Throw. Zuranthium 23:19, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Dual Majors suck on a Para. Even if they aren't targeted often, it's unnecessary. Shen(contribs) 23:24, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Completely incorrect. A Paragon's armor and positional advantage is the exact reason why you can afford to give them Major runes and squeak out a bit more performance from the character. Paragons rarely die unless there is a team wipe, at which point that extra health you would have had from not taking the Dual Majors doesn't matter. Zuranthium 23:35, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Eh, I can see your argument. Guess it's just my personal preference then. Shen(contribs) 23:38, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Actualy I am urged just to write "DP?" but here it goes: I could understand if someone would run 1(one) major rune on a para in GvG, but 2 is just suicide. Craced Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer. They die fast enough evenwithout 2 major runes. Second of all, you do have a hardrezz and group heals with that build and if you die your group would be at a hughe loss - more than it gains from the marginal damage and healing gained that way. I am going to revert the changes, as running major runes (one alone, two even more) is NOT standardt in GvG for any class. Grobilikesmudkips 23:46, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- "Cracked Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer". No, it doesn't. A Paragon with Cracked Armor has significantly more Armor than a caster. Zuranthium 00:22, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- u r wrong. 68.35.91.2 00:23, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- lulz Grob. 68.35.91.2 00:24, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- Zuranthium you may want to read this: GuildWiki:Only revert once. I ask you kindly to take back your re-revert as I am of the opinion that we can discuss what is better for this build on the discussion page without having an admin holding our hands and wiping our asses. If a general consensus can be found to wich I disagree - I will stfu and have you have your way, but not like this. And if "significantly more" is 8 more armor, then we use this one word diffrently but to me significantly would be 20+++. Grobilikesmudkips 00:37, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- lulz Grob. 68.35.91.2 00:24, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- u r wrong. 68.35.91.2 00:23, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- "Cracked Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer". No, it doesn't. A Paragon with Cracked Armor has significantly more Armor than a caster. Zuranthium 00:22, 7 December 2007 (CET)
- Actualy I am urged just to write "DP?" but here it goes: I could understand if someone would run 1(one) major rune on a para in GvG, but 2 is just suicide. Craced Armor means you are as squishy as a Monk, Ele, Mesmer. They die fast enough evenwithout 2 major runes. Second of all, you do have a hardrezz and group heals with that build and if you die your group would be at a hughe loss - more than it gains from the marginal damage and healing gained that way. I am going to revert the changes, as running major runes (one alone, two even more) is NOT standardt in GvG for any class. Grobilikesmudkips 23:46, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Eh, I can see your argument. Guess it's just my personal preference then.
- Completely incorrect. A Paragon's armor and positional advantage is the exact reason why you can afford to give them Major runes and squeak out a bit more performance from the character. Paragons rarely die unless there is a team wipe, at which point that extra health you would have had from not taking the Dual Majors doesn't matter. Zuranthium 23:35, 6 December 2007 (CET)
- Dual Majors suck on a Para. Even if they aren't targeted often, it's unnecessary.
- Dual Majors on a Paragon is pretty standard. Even with the Cracked Armor on from Aggressive Refrain, you should still have +5 armor from your weapon and +16 armor and +30 Health from the Shield, giving you 81 Armor and 530 Health as a midliner. Spear of Lightning doesn't need to be in the main bar at all. Some people prefer Harrier's Toss, some people prefer Wild Throw. Zuranthium 23:19, 6 December 2007 (CET)