Archive talk:Team - "Steel Wall" Deep Group

Outdated skills

Heavily outdated ... Ele build looks like joke now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.160.74.213 (talk • contribs) .

Agreed, SF, SH or even Mind Blast beats this. I'm seeing a combo forming in my head. SF, GG, LF, Fireball OR Fire Storm, MoR, GoLE, Fire Attune and res sig. Works anywhere. '~^\^^/~' Napalm Flame (talk)(contributions) 16:19, 27 May 2007 (CEST)

Firestorm FTL> -Skakid9090 21:35, 9 June 2007 (CEST)

Yeah....this thing is pretty damn old. Readem (talk*pvxcontribs) 22:13, 9 June 2007 (CEST)

One or two eles could go Savannah Heat instead of Meteor Shower. Knockdowns happen frequently and will keep targets in AoE damage from Savannah. Savannah IS the most powerful fire spell and should not be wasted. Combined with Mark of Rodgort, you will deal even more damage, crushing the build in this article. MS is great. Kick Fireball or something instead. Readem (talk*pvxcontribs) 00:24, 10 June 2007 (CEST)

Savannah sucks in PvE. SF outdamages it by a bunch. - Skakid9090 01:39, 10 June 2007 (CEST)

Might want to change the monk build. IMO a boon or LoD build is better for party wide heals - (snō hwīt tăn) [sic] [găl'ə-rē] 00:59, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

this this what everyone uses now. - Skakid9090 03:28, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Lol you found my page which I couldn't get working in the untested Team builds listing but I edited this main page anyways since, I guess, you are not supposed to make another build page when an existing one has similar builds. This is my first time using this wiki so forgive the messy number of edits and not-so-encyclopedic language

I hope this helps somewhat with the builds I see when I PUG this mission, especially of the Monk and Necromancer builds which can just be craptastic (lmao@Grenth's Balance necro) -.-;;

Skills That Shouldn't Be Left Behind:

Warrior: Shove, Dolyak Signet, Recall, one defensive stance.

Ele: Res Signet. Res Signet. Res Signet. Fire Attunement (Doh), Meteor Shower. A AI Renewal nuker, if you know this build, is also a very good alternative to the SF build. While it does less damage over time, the rate at which you can lay down Meteor Showers (and their mass disruption) makes up for it.

SS Necromancer: SS, Blood Ritual, Spinal Shivers or Shivers of Dread, Inspired or Revealed Enchantment. Res signet.

BiP Necromancer: BiP, Verata's Gaze and a Res.

The N/D Bip is far superior to the N/Mo BiP, it at least deserves a variant. Bip/BRen/Mystic/AuraThorns/VerataAura/Well/SoLS/Sunspear Reb—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.117.139.208 (talk • contribs) .

Monks: Heal Party, Healing Seed or Seed of Life, Extinguish, Protective Spirit for HM and a hard res. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jennalee (talk • contribs) .

Renewal nuking still works. If you don't mess up the chain, then you need little BiP support.

<pvxbig>[build name="Steel Wall Heavy Nuker" prof=eleme/mesme firema=12+3+1 energy=10+1 inspir=8][fireball][liquid flame][mark of rodgort][glyph of renewal][meteor shower][auspicious incantation][fire attunement][resurrection signet][/build]</pvxbig> --8765 02:43, 6 July 2007 (CEST)

Paragon

I grouped with this paragon named Soul Of Spear and he had this paragon build. It was incredibly effective with the new PvE skills so I put it here (with permission). Try it out. Just pop the Paragon in room 2 and later when the groups reunite, watch the blue 20's across the board. —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚^₮/_ḉ〛 19:43, 8 July 2007 (CEST)

The Deep is so much easier now that the Paragon has been added. --Swift Thief 23:11, 9 July 2007 (CEST)

Woohoo! Now I see at least 1-2 paragons in the Deep all the time. Woot! —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚^₮/_ḉ〛 16:47, 11 July 2007 (CEST)

Yeah, but those paragons still cannot get a group. A paragon makes it so easy that the monks can sleepwalk through the run, but they still get no respect. Go figure. Of course, in my guild, we substitute the paragon in for a tank, instead of a monk. And, with a ritualist in the team, the paragon, ritualist, and monk can clear room 2 without needing to be saved. Of course, we're often called "noobs" if we join a PuG group, but usually the ones calling us that still think elementalists are useful additions to a Deep team. Go figure. Vyral 06:19, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

too bad i deleted my para

I played with guildies with that build as a BiP Paragon <pvxbig> [build prof=p/n name="BiP Paragon" leadership=12+1+3 motivation=10+1 blood=8][blood is power][well of blood][glowing signet] [song of power][they're on fire][leader's comfort][optional][signet of return][/build] </pvxbig> The optional slot is for There is nothing to fear (also works with 10+3 Motivation). Works fine, the only slightly problematic point was the Aspect of Depletion, as a Paragon only has to pips in energy regen. Otherwise, I think it's a viable variant. Haven't tested it in HM yet, though. Fabes 11:01, 16 July 2007 (CEST)

Swordsmanship

LOL? Do I really see swordsmanship getting skilled there? Max. out strength = good (dolyak = main tank skill), max. out tactics = good (for the stances... superb)... after all the warriors are tanks... but skilling sword? And I was wondering where the warriors in the deep with that weird attributes got that from -.- My warrior has 16 on strength and thus +42 armor and keeps up 21 secs (13 tactics). 15 strength and 14 tactics would be cool too... but def. not that what's published here. --217.230.248.162 18:27, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

On the othr hand, that way it's easy to spot the newbies... you pls don't change that ;D --217.230.248.162 19:21, 30 July 2007 (CEST)

If you're using the presence of weapon attribute points as a test to screen for experience, then you will probably be missing out on a lot of skilled players. There are many players who do not find it necessary to max strength and take high tactics to keep themselves (and, thus, the team) alive. Since that is not necessary, points become available to use on your weapon, giving you the chance to do some damage as well (which makes the run more fun for you, too). And if you're still worried about security, just try inviting a Paragon into the team. Vyral 06:19, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

Additional Skills

Monks in R1 and 4 should by default take Gaze of Fury. Warrior R1 also Swap. That way R1 is easiest and fastest done. Also the monks can kill any spirit (also the annoying Disenchantment one in the Scorpion room) and the warrior can swap not only with spirits but also with golems that passed the frontline.
All warriors should have Protector's Defense, that's esp. usefull in the cuddlecorner but also for walls.
My basic warrior build looks like this:
<pvxbig> [build prof=w/a name="Warrior Basic" strength=12+1+3 tactics=12+1] [optional][optional][dolyak signet][shove][protector's defense][recall][signet of stamina][optional][/build] </pvxbig> The optional skills depend in what room I play.
So my builds for R1, R3 and R4 look like that:

And to show an example for the monk build:

That's my monk for R1 or R4 (my R2 and 3 builds have HB as elite and R2 monk also Recall to replace the SS at the gate and for recall rez). Sometimes I replace Protection Spirit for Healing Breeze. At least one monk should have that skill for the bipper at the end in Kanaxai's cave, so he can bip faster with a slight hp regeneration. Just some hints from a pro --Nifty 12:31, 3 August 2007 (CEST)

Healing Breeze is teh sux. Prot Spirit is always better just in case an aspect moves on your backline in any rooms. —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚^₮/_ḉ〛 19:06, 6 August 2007 (CEST)

Teh Leet u r, huh? For that case we've 1 Ele with Blinding Flash *g* (Air Magic 3+1 is enough). Much better than a protter since Aspect in HM is so fast and can switch targets so quickly that it makes more sense (and it's safer) to do something that affects the Aspect and not his possible targets. And a blind Aspect is not only nice in the scorpion room.
Healing Breeze comes on the bipper (e.g. in Kanaxai's cave) >.> With Blood Renewal, the bipper has a regen (and not a degen). The problem of the bipper at the end is his life (heavy degen + sac hp), otherwise he could quickly bip through the wohle team and keep that up (N/P bipper has no ene probs... N/Mo will have, without support from the SS). --Nifty 10:31, 13 August 2007 (CEST)

Enduring Harmony

I think it's quite unpractical to use that skill. It must be kept up on all 3 warriors too (or on everybody who should enjoy this effect).
1. Recharge is too long for that.
2. Has to be reapplied every time.
3. Not needed for that 1 Shout that can't be recast after it ends
"They're on Fire!" is much more efficient and can be recast after it ends --Nifty 10:27, 16 August 2007 (CEST)

<pvxbig> [build prof=P/Mo name="Steel Wall Angelic Paragon" comma=12+1 lea=12+1+3][Angelic Bond][Blazing Finale]["They're on Fire!"]["There's Nothing to Fear!"][Awe]["Fall Back!"][Balthazar's Spirit][Signet of Return][/build] </pvxbig> Blazing Finale is replaceable. "Stand your Ground!", Glowing Signet or whatever you like.

After playing with this build endlessly in the deep. I can safely say that the only skills really needed on the paragon are as follows.OblivionDanny 06:55, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

<pvxbig> [build prof=P/Mo name="Steel Wall Angelic Paragon" comma=12+1 lea=12+1+3][Angelic Bond][Optional][Optional][Optional][Optional]["There's Nothing to Fear!"][Balthazar's Spirit][Signet of Return][/build] </pvxbig> There a ton of skills which can fit those slots. "Never Surrender", "Never give up", "Stand your ground", Hexbreaker Aria, Awe, Glowing signet, "they're on fire", "Fall back!", Enduring harmony, Leaders comfort, angelic protection, blazing finale. im sure others could be mentioned. Also if one monk brought balthazars spirit it could open up the use for the paragons secondary profession.OblivionDanny 06:55, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

The idea with a monk bringing Balthasar's Spirit is nice. As for Hexbreaker Aria... it's just as useless as Enduring Harmony ;) There are no harmful hexes on the casters. Harmful hexes may be on the warriors, but they normally don't cast. Well except for Scourge Healing I can't even think of any harmful hex. And Para from Room 2 has no influence on that (he wouldn't even have the adrenalin to cast anyway).
When the monks aready have the problems to heal the party above 75%, then Never Surrender won't save the party either.
I don't think it's effective to suggest even more of the useless skills here --Nifty 13:26, 17 August 2007 (CEST)

Never surrender is nice in rooms with degen. For example the last room. But even then as you said monks should be able to hold off with heal party. It was just a suggestion that "could" be added, useless or not, each skill there has its uses somewhere in the deep. OblivionDanny 06:37, 18 August 2007 (CEST)

Indeed, I dropped Enduring Harmony from my paragon build quickly. I tend to bring Motivation skills like Aria of Zeal, Lyric of Zeal, and Ballad of Restoration. My guild groups don't use a BiP (or elementalists) and so the extra energy management comes in handy (everybody tends to have a signet that they can use, Signet of Rejuvenation, Signet of Sorrow, etc. If I run in a PuG group with elementalists, I always take "They're on Fire!". Besides the 4 mentioned above, the rest are completely optional and based on the rest of the team build. Vyral 22:18, 22 August 2007 (CEST)

Iron Palm

Why is this skill not used. It does the same as shove (bar dmg) assuming they hexed/conditioned. Aslong as the Nukers bring along Mark of Rodgort, wouldnt this skill be far superior to Shove as it allows u to bring a different elite. Luminarus 09:58, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

At the end, two warriors need to knockdown Kanaxai without the help of the elementalists so Kanaxai wouldn't have a condition/hex. --Swift Thief 14:07, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

Mostly it's because there are few Warrior elites that are worth using in the Deep. I mean, what would you bring instead of Shove? I just pack both of them since a warrior needs only 2-3 skills to maintain a perfect defense anyway -- the extra KD serves as a decent interrupt and also makes Aspects faster in a 2-warrior group. (Grapple's gonna make this all moot in a week, probably; note its awesome synergy with Dolyak Signet.) — 130.58 (talk) 06:33, 22 August 2007 (CEST)

Yeah... still wouldnt be that hard to send in the ss to put a hex on kanaxai for the iron palm to work. Could then run better elites eg crippling slash to slow down kanaxai aspects if they break through the tanks for instance, or maybe give the warriors dark prison instead of deaths charge that will also let u trigger iron palm for only 5 nrg more. Although I do see ur point of no better elites to run.

For me, the other reason to bring Shove is the armor-ignoring damage it adds. It's useful for finishing off foes every once in a while. But, like I said, I pack both for the extra utility (and Distracting Blow, too, since I've got a lot of free space on my bar). — 130.58 (talk) 15:21, 22 August 2007 (CEST)

Iron Palm for the Deep became much more viable with the recent update that reduced its energy cost to 5e. Unfortunately, the condition makes it a little dodgy to use as your only knockdown. As 130.58 mentioned, none of this will matter come GWEN, when Grapple or Club of a 1000 Bears will start to be used instead (as of now, both are non-attribute linked skills with no applicable conditions). This will allow me to completely drop tactics from my build, freeing up attribute points for other things. Vyral 22:18, 22 August 2007 (CEST)

134 - 444

Perhaps someone should put something up about 444 and a Spoil Victor build?

Other KD skill

I was thinking of using "You Move Like a Dwarf!" instead of Shove. Its non-elite and can be used at a distance, the drawback is that it cost a little more energy --Arthas 00:34, 9 September 2007 (CEST)

Sure, but put that into the variants, not everyone has EoTN. --Swift Thief 02:26, 9 September 2007 (CEST)

The crippling side-effect is wonderful, especially for controlling the Aspects' aggro in the initial rooms. It also makes the end part a lot easier, since you can do it from range and timing the second knockdown is a lot easier. It's also better as an interrupt, and the recharge is lower. Great, great skill if you've got it. — 130.58 (talk) 06:42, 10 September 2007 (CEST)

Or use Brawling Headbutt..

Here's my thinking...

"YMLaD!" snares, interrupts targets flawlessly from range (great against certain annoying caster-types, like jellies or outcast necros), and doesn't require a build-up of adrenaline. Brawling Headbutt is more spammable, yes, but everything other than Kanaxai pretty much dies too fast for it to really matter, and you often *want* Kanaxai swinging as much as possible to get SS and Healing Seed doing their thing. I agree that BH rocks, but I think "YMLaD!" is notably better here. The thing is, a Deep tank isn't exactly hurting for room on his bar anyway (you can do the whole thing with just Recall, Dolyak, and one KD), so you might as well take both skills and stomp everything with a frenzy of knockdowns.

Now, the above is from the perspective of a 6-to-8-man HM group with no eles (they're kinda inefficient in HM). If you're not counting on SS to do most of the damage, then it totally makes sense to have one warrior go Brawling-Steelfang-DSlash and KD lock him. ;) — 130.58 (talk) 03:50, 11 September 2007 (CEST)

Also, "YMLaD!" has 50% the recharge time of Shove and at max norn title it will deal just as much damage as Shove will at 16 tactics, so I see no reason why you shouldn't take "YMLaD!" instead of shove if yo have access to it.

lololol

"NOTE: no Warrior is to Shave Kanaxai when using this method!" ... ... z0mg. - Y0_ich_halt 23:00, 18 September 2007 (CEST)

WTB Sundering Mach 3 Razor of Fortitude. Unreal Havoc 02:06, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Mind if I..

Mind if I put a link to my build who's made for the Deep? A/W Gladiator Assassin Thx in advance. Adriaanz 16:43, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Is anyone disagreeing with this, or is this no problem? Please a response. Ty Adriaanz (talk*pvxcontribs) 16:20, 8 November 2007 (CET)

/Agree. Swift Thief 01:31, 9 November 2007 (CET)

/Disagree. Warriors do it better. --71.229.204.25 01:32, 9 November 2007 (CET)

/Agree. Anything that allows any proffession to perform in a specific area should be added. (Did that make sense?) :)

/Disagree. We need the best build for the job, not a different primary profession one that is inferior. Lord Belar 02:19, 9 November 2007 (CET)

It's called a variant, not a full replacement.

Here's another: R/A Deep Defense Tank. Again, a variant, it DOES work. Wars aren't the only ones who can tank you know. And this is only in 'Other' because of one low vote.Stryk the Lightning 00:06, 11 January 2008 (EST)