Archive talk:Team - Kurzick HFFF

Hi! What exactly are you trying to test? – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 21:31, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

I am trying to add a new team build and have never done it before. That is why I am doing a test. I am also trying to get it to show up when I do a search, but that always fails. Zog 22:35, 20 August 2007 (CEST) Retrieved from User_talk:Hhhippo

ok, I see you submitted the real build now, so I'll delete the test pages. I guess you noticed that it's not a good idea to put "&" in the page title, since it's misinterpreted by the web server. About the searching: I found it searching for "Lutgardis" or for "Heros & Henchies", so it looks ok. At some point the title should be changed to the right spelling of 'Heroes', you can do that by using the 'move' tab on top. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 23:32, 20 August 2007 (CEST)

your're swell. will do. what if i wanted to find this by searching for fff which would be more common for people to do? i dont know how to get it to do that.

Hmm, no idea. I think the search engine doesn't return anything for search words with less than 4 letters, but I'm not sure. Would have to dig into the MediaWiki doku. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop›

dont sweat it, theyll find it if they really want it

Hi all! I just wanted to share my 5-6 months FFF solo experience and suggest one or two things. First of all, I'm not very agree that R/A or A/R is the best combination for this team. I use my Dervish hero for the stairs run with Shadow Form followed 3-5sec later by Pious Haste and give her a permanent 33% speed boost with only one skill. Second, I think one Henchman is enough for the bridge run. Devona die maybe once out of ~25 runs because I was too fixed on the heroes. I hope it will help you all to go through all that great stuff MetaleX 13:56, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

Good suggestion, I'll give it a try.Zog 18:49, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

Why dont u use all 4 henchies? 4 must be beter than 1 or am I missing something? I cant access gw atm so I cant test it 77.241.132.188 21:25, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

My reason of picking only one henchman is that it leaves 3 group slots for 3 guildmates who have nothing to do. The result is that the profit is 40k points for our guild. With only few guys who had learn these technics, and guildmates who have nothing to learn but wait and take reward (3k750 for 10k points), our guild maintain 2.5 millions(for guild) and ~5millions (for ally) all the time and harvest temple is ours at the moment. PS: sorry for possible mistakes, I'm French and not bilingual ^^ MetaleX 22:23, 29 August 2007 (CEST)

No reason to use one hench if u are alone. --Arthas 15:56, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

I had a hard time keeping 1 alive, even with double flagging. I've noticed my bridge runners seem to get caught up on the cliff wall until they draw aggro, and that seems to be what kills them, so I've started double flagging them, once east and once to the bridge (maybe my flag position isn't accurate enough? It works 100% of the time with double flagging and I've had the problem with and without using TexMod helping for flag position). Before I figured this out, I was even running 3 and about 50% of the time all 3 got wiped just out of radar range, so I started following them and watching them get stuck and the patrol wiping them. I have not failed with 2 for a while, though I will on rare occasion lose one of the other runners. --False Prophet 12:15, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I agree with the one hench, and I recommend Nika. I've done 100 runs with only one loss now.68.148.235.130 03:15, 28 January 2008 (EST)

::::::after a lot of trial, it appears to be a pathfinding issue. The two runners look like they get caught on the wall or maybe are running into each other, so in the latter case, one runner is better (incidentally, I have used Nika with Devona quite a bit, but never alone). Flagging before the bridge and then across it seems to work well, too. --False Prophet 17:11, 29 January 2008 (EST)

I've now tested it, and I had slightly worse luck with one runner (tried Nika, Aidan, Devona) when single flagging and never failed when flagging a lone runner twice (in front of bridge and then after some time after it - only 10 runs, so maybe lucky). I still can't seem to find a single flagging position that succeeds consistently. --False Prophet 14:29, 30 January 2008 (EST)

works fine with 1 hench as long as you flag where this guide shows (not the HFF TexMod pos, as I noted below) and do it fairly quickly. --False Prophet 16:51, 4 March 2008 (EST)

BTW there are no actuall requirments for the heroes with this build as long as they have some running skills and Shadow Form. I did 60k in a day with lvl 11 Jin, lvl 15 Zenmai and lvl 11 Sauske. Faramir (+Contribs*/*talk) 08:22, 15 September 2007 (CEST)

I agree. I began FFF with my lvl3 Koss and works well, great opportunity to level up heroes very quickly.MetaleX 11:07, 16 September 2007 (CEST)

Tried it out. Works brilliantly. As a backup, I normally get the shore runner to back up and run to the stairs. Otherwise, easy team build to run. Angel138 11:23, 24 September 2007 (CEST)

Works brilliant, as said. However, if u add Troll Unguent to the stair runner he will use it as soon as he has stopped, meaning that he is at the location where u sent him to. When he uses it, u can safily set the next flag for him. Make sure u don't quee any other skill like Shadow Form. --Arthas 15:54, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

You can also use Feigned Neutrality or Shadow Refuge for this (I do this since my runners are all E/A or A/E). --68.112.142.241 03:44, 5 November 2007 (CET)

This thing also works for leveling heroes.--121.208.172.69 03:58, 11 November 2007 (CET)

Note

new heroes.

Guide?

Should we move to guides section? seems more of guide than a team to me (archive this obv.)PheNaxKian (T/c) 23:20, 14 September 2007 (CEST)

Video A video I threw together at my guild website. Excellent build I might add. I can usually complete the run in under 2 minutes. Kletimostaph 22:31, 26 September 2007 (CEST)

Those notes at the bottom of the build are extremely helpful, especially the tip to set "Command Heros" actions to keys. I did that and it shaved about 7-15 seconds off my runs.-(Japanties 22:10, 17 October 2007 (CEST))

Thanks a lot ^^ MetaleX 19:06, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

E/A for alternative runners?

The other day I got mu survivor to lutgardis to fff my way to legendary survivor. The only problem was I only had one ranger so for the shore run i tried using vekk as runner with shadow form and strom djinn's haste. You only need to use each skill once at the start of the run and he will make it to the shore every time. even though its only one less button click you could point out that e/a runners are viable alternative. Also using storm djinn on Zenmai/Anton only slows them down 1-2 seconds and makes for a lot less button clicks per run.--203.26.16.66 04:47, 5 October 2007 (CEST)

To my opinion, all heroes can do every run. I think the two dervishes and one Ranger is the fastest way, but all other heroes can run with the "core" Shadow Form-Dark Escape build. MetaleX 19:18, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

I beleive elementalist with storm djinn's haste dashing whenever dash is recharged makes THE fastest runner available. Easy to run too as SDH lasts quite long.

I agree! ^^ MetaleX 18:30, 24 October 2007 (CEST)

I do this run quite regularly, and my heroes are always E/A or A/E with essentially equivalent builds. Shadow Form/Storm Djinn's Haste/Dark Escape. You plant their flag, hit all three skills, and forget about them (except for the stair runner, who you have to give a second planting and SDH/DE dose -- I start with him first, and after I've planted the fourth flag, I move the first to its final destination). When the second Charting the Forests message pops up, you take the quest and get your reward. --68.112.142.241 03:24, 5 November 2007 (CET)

A/R as Stair runner

Tried to use Anton instead of Pyre to run stairs and was able to shave of maybe 5 seconds of a run. Use the same build for Anton as for Zenmai. --Arthas 22:22, 27 October 2007 (CEST)

In fact, the best theoretical run time can be achieved with an assassin running to the Stairs. For the absolute best time you need a run without Shadow Form (which incidentally I did succeed at once by accident) Flag and use Shadow Form then Dash, Dodge, Dash, Natural Stride, queue Dash and reflag, Zojun's Haste, Dash, Natural Stride then repeat the first part of the chain. Always use Dash as soon as it's recharged. --False Prophet 16:16, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

stupid pic of guy naked with mask

can some1 plz remove this it has nothing to do with this whatsoeverLord Justin K 18:25, 10 November 2007 (CET)

Yes it does. - Rawrawr 04:17, 11 November 2007 (CET)

a lot!1. Grobie 04:39, 11 November 2007 (CET)

I support the naked guy. he shows the minimal effort and resources needed for this run, and warns users from the real life dangers of running it! Foo 03:33, 16 November 2007 (CET)

This picture is completely useless. I agree with Justin, it has really nothing to do with HFFF at all. I don't care if you think it is funny, it really needs to be removed -- Raikage

I think my sequence is more simple:

I run 3 R/A with shadow form and dodge, and after stepping out the portal, I:

1. Adjust the U map to show all 5 flagging points, (by pulling it a bit to the bottom and to the left),
2. Flag everybody one by one, using f1 to f4. (beach, half way to the stairs, mushroom, bridge),
3. Cast the 3 shadow forms, (same order: beach hero, stairs hero, mushroom hero),
4. Cast the 3 dodges, (same order),
5. Wait for shadow form to end, and then flag the second hero to the stairs.

no need for more than two skills, minimal micro managing, easy to remember and execute, and fast enough. only catch is that you need to do the flagging and shadow form before the heroes aggro any mobs, but that's trivial. Foo 13:00, 15 November 2007 (CET)

[updated again] That is the easy way, however complex timing runs are significantly faster (25% or more). Shore and Mushroom don't matter, generally, as long as they maintain a 33% run they should arrive before stairs. I like an A/R to the Stairs, hitting Fall Back! and Godspeed! on my char while flagging all (Paragon secondary, Command 12), then focusing on stairs runner skills (interleave with others), SF, Dash, Dodge, queue Dash, Natural Stride, reflag, Dash, Zojun's, Dash, and you should be done or close (as soon as dash is ready, hit it). I've done a complete resets in less than 60s. You can also try Death's Charge to the first mob (I haven't yet, but have heard this shaves off a few seconds). the AI doesn't use Death's Charge when uninjured, so it doesn't help False Prophet 17:55, 14 February 2008 (EST)

ok, there is a use for Shadow Steps - if you somehow get your Stairs and Shore runner too close together (can happen if you flag REALLY fast [e.g. a fluid motion and key flags] or use a run shout when the first runner is out of range) the second runner occasionally gets body blocked. Heart of Shadow seems to be the best skill to free the runner, but sometimes Death's Charge works, as well (esp. early into the block). I used to think this was bad flagging, but by observation I learned what was really happening. --False Prophet 14:40, 14 March 2008 (EDT)

Mushroom runner just keeps dying

I practiced this run for a while, both suggested versions, tried shuffling the hero types around,, changing skill trigger order, etc., but one way or another nearly 75% of the time the mushroom runner keeps dying. He just manages to get hit a few times RIGHT as the shadow form ends, and of course is toast; dashing him right as it ends doesn't help. When I tried waiting a bit longer before giving him the forms, then he gets tangled in hexes and dies that way.

Ironically, I'm usually able to fix the run with the STAIRS runner, that is, even after triggering the quest, the strairs runner is able to reach the mushrooms alive so I can collect the reward.

But what could I be doing wrong so that the initial mushroom runner always ends up dead?24.83.195.130 10:11, 21 November 2007 (CET)

Make sure nobody takes the quest until the runs are about complete. Sometimes this happens if you fail to maintain run in Shadow Form, but if you did at least a Dash + one other run skill it should never happen. If you never let run drop, you can usually even make it if someone takes the quest. I haven't lost a mushroom runner in ages. --False Prophet 15:05, 5 February 2008 (EST)

more observations.

• Heroes can be of any profession.
• Shadow Form and Dark Escape and enough.
• Level 14 is good enough, as heroes of that level already have 97 AP.
• Zooming a bit out of the Umap lets you have a semi-sized map which shows all of the flagging points.

Foo 02:45, 28 November 2007 (CET)

I noticed other runners don't seem to know this so I added it to notes:

• Any runner can be reflagged to another location before taking quest to correct a fail
• You can flag past a location instead of on it (in fact the bridge run is easiest if you do).

On a whim I tested to see if I could HFF a run with a single runner. It is possible, but took me about 6 or 7 minutes with Zenmai doing bridge first, returning, and then running clockwise (because I know the timing best for shore and stairs) and finally taking the quest. --False Prophet 13:29, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

A well tested method

• Immediately upon loading area flag a hero to the bridge. If done immediately there will be no need for Shadow Form or running skills.
• Send henchmen to the shore. Having done this method 100 times my henchmen (as long as I use two warriors) have not failed.
• Just like with the other method, do not get the quest until right before everyone makes it to their spots.
• This method makes flagging and controlling the heroes simpler.
• Everything else is the same as the traditional FFF method.
• Random comment: All heroes from any flagged point can go to any other without difficulty (except the bridge). Sending hero from shore to mushroom: Apply Shadow Form when water environmental effect applies on them. Spam running skills.

UndaDecor 08:26, 29 November 2007 (EST)

Note: When I send the hero to the bridge (Koss), he does not take any damage. If I attempt to follow him to see how it is he gets past the enemies without getting hit then the enemies hit him although he still makes it. I have no idea why it is only when I follow that the enemies see him. Perhaps someone else can provide an explanation after trying it.

UndaDecor 08:51, 29 November 2007 (EST)

Heroes/Henchmen do not trigger spawns. Mobs do not spawn outside of the compass radius. The only reason that your Heroes/Hench would die is if the mobs from the starting point follow them. I can make a video of this when I get off work and/or someone else can test this by dieing and then clicking on the hench/hero to follow them. Just have to make sure one of them has a res or you'll end up respawning at the res shrine. Kletimostaph 19:01, 30 November 2007 (CET)

The exception is taking the quest - when you do that, Luxon mobs DO spawn outside of the compass. I did this test: position hero towards the south end of the mushrooms (north end is safe). Leave for 20 minutes. Take quest. Watch hero immediately get attacked and die (I think same with stairs). --False Prophet 16:36, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Entering Melandru's Hope - is it better to run to Arne?

In my first trials to master HFFF, I followed the hint that I schouldn't move my character. But standing near the door, I noticed that the hero running to the shore often had problems finding his way. When I moved slightly towards Arne, there were no such problems at all.

I had problems with bridge runners too. They got stuck almost every time and it's so annoying when they do it, i tried to flag them first before the bridge and them at the end of it, but they still get stuck oftenPlohek 14:11, 10 January 2008 (EST)

If you follow them, you will notice they actually typically get stuck on the cliff wall directly to the east, and the sticking point as well as chance to draw aggro is actually worse if they're flagged from Arne. I've found flagging them twice (first a little to the NE of where the black lines converge with a light grey line on the map and second to the bridge) is successful nearly 100% of the time so I've started doing that more often. You can usually handle all your runners and even talk to Arne before you need to reflag them to the bridge and if done right, they still should beat the stairs runner, so its not too hard to get that into the mix. --False Prophet 18:01, 21 January 2008 (EST)

I actually learned through experimentation without the HFF mod that the flag position is off for HFF (but works for FFF) - go about an aggro circle further south. I posted a bit more on this below. --False Prophet 16:05, 4 March 2008 (EST)

Good source of gold, exp, and faction

In about one hour of doing this, one can aquire 7.5 platinum, 20,000 kurzick faction, and 100,000 experience. That means that in 14 hours of gameplay doing this at a good speed, you could have the Legendary Survivor title, 105 platinum, and 280,000 faction, with absolutely no risk. Fill the extra two party member spaces with guildies going for the Legendary Survivor title, and you'll make their day.

Faction Line

ok well i am new to this but i got the concept down. but i am here to ask if any veteran hfffers have had even the smallest issue with the faction line. right now as i type this the faction line goes right over the second flag spot for the stairs so it makes it difficult(at least for me)

I use the FFF Hero Aid TexMod plugin when the lines block my view (see mission map part of build). --False Prophet 16:05, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Yeah, I made that thing... how ya like it? ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 16:31, 1 February 2008 (EST)

actually, I'd like it more if the bridge flag was corrected. The placement shown works for FFF, but the henchies will get stuck if placed anywhere on that flag point if single flagged in HFF. It works far better to flag the henchies about an aggro circle further south (see the parent first flag position). --False Prophet 15:44, 4 March 2008 (EST)

Needing update - better to take third ranger hero or old sin hero?

I'm assuming the guide says to take two rangers and a sin because it was made before EotN release. Is it better to take the third ranger instead of zenmai, or does it not matter in the least? -Auron 07:31, 1 February 2008 (EST)

well, in my opinion its better to take 2 sins and a ranger, and put shadowsteps on them too. but it doesnt really matter much. Invincible Rogue 16:12, 1 February 2008 (EST)

In the long run, only the Stairs runner really matters, and if you want speed, a 'sin does it fastest, but a ranger as per guide works. I use 2 sins, but just swapped Margrid and Zenmai because rangers to the Shore are good for timing - when their Shadow Form starts blinking, it is time to reflag the stairs if you're running it with a sin (and kept run up with 2-3 Dashes). Most of my allies run 3 E/As, hit Storm Djinn's Haste SF and flag, chat a bit and/or take money, then recast SDH and flag the stairs. Slower, but an easy 2 skill build. --False Prophet 16:20, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Bringing SDH and Dash makes it just as fast (or a second or two slower, maybe) and is easier to micro. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:27, 5 February 2008 (EST)

If it ain't broken don't fix it. Add to variants instead :D Seb2net (Talk) 16:31, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Easy?

After the first practice, I found this ridiculously easy. All of the spots are easily identifiable (Anton/Zenmai goes between the two rocks NE, Margrid goes in front of the bridge to the north, then behind it, Jin goes on a little peninsula NW, henchies go just under bridge to the east). As long as you cast shadow form before you reach any targets and a speed stance shortly after, you should be fine. I don't think you have to be "skilled" in order to fix a failed Margrid or Jin either. It's really easy to fix.

Yeah, it's easy, easier with My FFF Aid, but yeah, easiest run ever. ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 21:14, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Speaking of your Aid... (GJ BTW & THX!) This may be trivial but I had to ask. I have a question of consistency for you... where do you actually place the tip of the Mouse pointer, when you flag? Do I want the base of my flag in the middle of your dot, or do I just want to click in the middle of the Dot? I have tried various positions on and around the dot with varied success, i.e. not as much consistency as I would like. Maybe others are wondering to...

Why not use little circles that you could put the mouse pointer tip into and click? To justify this: Any chance at saving/shaving time is directly proportionate to incurring profit. =) THX Again! Greywolf31 09:46, 21 February 2008 (EST)

I put the point of the mouse on the dots. ~~ frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 09:49, 21 February 2008 (EST)

THX! Greywolf31 09:58, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Done each run myself once and after that it was just flagging, easiest thing ever, nice guide ^^ 213.93.31.218 15:54, 3 March 2008 (EST)

The for file. Also, you don't even need 3 ranger/assassins. Just get three any/assassins and bring dash, dark escape and shadow form. i did it with vekk, gwen, and ogden.Canderouss 00:06, 9 March 2008 (EST)

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Standardized Test -----

Instead of talking about how long it takes people to do a run; can we get some stats to figure average running speeds of builds and such so that we can find the most efficient builds- and let people worry about their own human error? ~~Tasty Stromwich

Picture

The picture of a naked guy serves no purpose on the Build page and it needs to be fully removed from the Wiki. Tengu 08:33, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

It's fun. Period! Godbox 09:43, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Fun or not, it's just wasting space for possibly more valuable pictures to help people with the build.Tengu 11:40, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

It's fine. The space isn't needed for anything else more important, thus the space is not wasted. - PANIC! pewpewpew! 11:44, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Give me one good reason it is useful or serves a purpose to this build.Tengu 12:23, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

Makes it less boring. Good enough? Klumpeet.ŧ.¢. 12:25, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I don't have to give you any reasons. It doesn't have to be useful or purposeful. This isn't Wikipedia. Quit trolling. - PANIC! pewpewpew! 14:23, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

He's overreacting, when I read what he said, I thought the creator of the page added some srsly gay picture while this is just a joke and it's a character ffs.Frans 14:28, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

I don't get it...

You can only do this quest once, right? So then it would only be of use once...

O.o

I could be wrong. Please correct me.