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Why earth shaker over dev hammer? [[user:IcyFiftyFive|<small><font color="#011000">IC</font><font color="#055000">YF</font><font color="#099000">IF</font><font color="#0CC000">T</font><font color="#099000">YF</font><font color="#055000">I</font><font color="#011000">VE</font></small>]] 21:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)
 
Why earth shaker over dev hammer? [[user:IcyFiftyFive|<small><font color="#011000">IC</font><font color="#055000">YF</font><font color="#099000">IF</font><font color="#0CC000">T</font><font color="#099000">YF</font><font color="#055000">I</font><font color="#011000">VE</font></small>]] 21:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)
  +
:One more adrenaline for a potential devastation if you are lucky/good. Getting down two people in a ES basically guarantees a kill on one if both are midline/monk.[[User:Dark0805|<font color=black><b>--Dark0805</b></font>]]<small><b>(</b>[[User_talk:Dark0805|<font color=red>Rant</font>]]<b>/</b>[[Special:Contributions/Dark0805|<font color=#ff11aa>Contributions</font>]]<b>)</b></small> 12:59, 20 November 2008 (EST)

Revision as of 17:59, November 20, 2008

Finally sum megaownzors balance is on wiki. - Weapon of FuryUnexist 16:25, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Cripslash is not very strong, using disarm will make the warrior run back and forth to counter melee/attack.
Mending touch is kinda off. Mageshot is gud, but better elites availiable for TA.
Necro lacks ward and PB. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 21:18, 28 November 2007 (CET)
Spam Manangment > Wards, you've got their damage hexed anyway. Und what da hell is pb? :Q - Weapon of FuryUnexist 18:57, 29 November 2007 (CET)
Parasitic. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 09:50, 30 November 2007 (CET)
Defile equals parasatic, while also giving a block rate(note that you won't be attacking the ranger + warrior anyway, on which you need the cover). - Unexist sigUnexist 20:14, 9 December 2007 (CET)

Build:Team - TA Degen, with a few variants. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 07:46, 29 November 2007 (CET)

This wins, that not. - Weapon of FuryUnexist 18:55, 29 November 2007 (CET)
Archive the other one and update it imo. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 18:58, 29 November 2007 (CET)
You could easily update instead of making a new build. But then again, no one does that. — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 09:50, 30 November 2007 (CET)
You could also just 5-5-5 this build, and being happy that i finally posted a real ta build. - Weapon of FuryUnexist 11:36, 1 December 2007 (CET)
Where are your less real ones? — Tycn (talk*pvxcontribs) 12:05, 1 December 2007 (CET)
Teambuilder. I'll show you some crap stuff someday. - Unexist sigUnexist 20:15, 9 December 2007 (CET)

so why did you choose such a pansy warrior that fucking sucks? Just wondering. 209.189.130.127 22:29, 6 December 2007 (CET)

lol? ~~ User Frvwfr2 signature frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 22:33, 6 December 2007 (CET)
I am serious. Why? You have disarm where bull's should be, Conjure doesn't eat RoF = no care about conjure. lulz that build is bad. 209.189.130.127 22:36, 6 December 2007 (CET)
This build owns face. - Rawrawr 19:31, 7 December 2007 (CET)
If your ranger is leet and their monk is nub. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 20:23, 7 December 2007 (CET)
With a good ranger that's always the case. - Unexist sigUnexist 20:16, 9 December 2007 (CET)
Disarm is gud, so your necro can take less melee shutdown. ~~ User Frvwfr2 signature frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 20:34, 9 December 2007 (CET)
Disarm is actually the most underrated skill of the game. It functions as a simple, fast recharge interupt, while also shutting down rangers(=your price of failure gets through), having a blackout effect on warriors, so it's always usefull no matter which target you're attacking. - Unexist sigUnexist 12:39, 12 January 2008 (EST)


lol@koreans under counters -Karmapolice 01:15, 10 December 2007 (CET)

Koreans are a counter to everything. Railin-WoH Railin 04:46, 20 December 2007 (EST)
Lol @ all of the counters part. Maybe change? Adriaanz (talk*pvxcontribs) 14:29, 31 December 2007 (EST)
No, if you face koreans(aka infinity) you're always dead. He's like the king of ta. - Unexist sigUnexist 12:29, 1 January 2008 (EST)

I think warrior's and ranger's bars should be:

Shock Axe

Eviscerate Executioner&#039;s Strike Distracting Strike Bull&#039;s Strike Shock Frenzy Rush Resurrection Signet

Magebane

Magebane Shot Distracting Shot Screaming Shot Apply Poison Natural Stride Purge Signet Aura of Stability Resurrection Signet


Necro might take Grasping Earth instead of Sig of Lost Souls for some snare (Ever Forest 15:10, 3 January 2008 (EST))

I love the Variants. Essentially it says: Take a Warrior, a Ranger, a Monk, and a CE Necro. lmao. --Cursed Condemner 02:06, 7 January 2008 (EST)

It actually is, the point is you kill. Bars are just funcitioned of our preference. - Unexist sigUnexist 12:34, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Tbh, should i clean up the article a bit? obviously the creator had a mental maturity of a 5 year old and we have to clean up his mess ;l The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.159.212.194 (contribs) .

No and BAAWWWWWWWW. Truthfulness and humor is good. Mediocrities are bad. --71.229 15:00, 24 January 2008 (EST)

counters are koreans? sum1 could find that offensive........ and cripslash does do too little damage..... I Am Jebus 20:31, 16 January 2008 (EST)

Good builds dont work in TA anymore, try running something gay, like gothspike himynameisbobbyjoe 21:54, 17 January 2008 (EST)

Chance

Since everyone QQ's about the war and necro bar, replace it by evis and n/e with grasping? - Unexist sigUnexist 14:50, 24 January 2008 (EST)

oye — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 14:51, 24 January 2008 (EST)
The only real flaw in the Cripslash bar is the Conjure; if the other team is roughly equal, it's going to fish out a Corrupt Enchantment, and it's really not worth trying to fight that with Veil and the ranger in lieu of taking another utility skill. Disarm is amazing; on a Cripslash bar, it's worth giving up Bull's Strike for it, and Bull's Strike is pretty much the immaculate warrior skill. And the only real flaw in the Necro's bar is the redundant e-management. Take Signet of Lost Souls or take Glyph of Lesser Energy, but don't take both. Grasping Earth really isn't necessary, but it's nice to have; as I noted in my rating, I'm really in favor of Mantra of Concentration or Resolve, but if you're good with Glyph, you can take that instead, and if you're willing to rely on your judgment and your team versus an opposing ranger's awesomeness (or lack thereof), you can get away without Glyph OR a Mantra.
To be honest, your frontliner doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't suck. While it may slightly adjust the kind of physical pressure that you apply, it really doesn't adjust the volume of pressure. I've also found that the anti-melee necro is kinda questionable these days because a lot of gimmick crap or momentum / blitz builds circumvent most of the necro's bar. A lot of very good groups that I know are gradually phasing out the necro in favor of other things; really common switches are just a second physical, D/P spearchuckers (coming back into favor now) or a moti / command paragon. The necro is really just the foremost flex slot in a basic balanced template.
I'd also point out that Identity is imminently beatable. Any of these high ranked players are quite frankly human and beatable; they are not silver bullets to a potentially long winning streak. If you play at a high level, then you're perfectly capable of beating these teams. If you play like a scrub, you're going to lose.
Quite frankly, the article does a lot of revision though, and it should be rewritten from the ground up, with almost no attention to any of the advice in the discussion or ratings; then I would resubmit the entire thing for ratings from scratch. Sun Fired Blank 22:46, 24 January 2008 (EST)

I

would like to see the WoH Bar contain Balanced Stance, like the Balanced WoH monk build. ViYadriaanzsigAdriaanz 13:18, 31 January 2008 (EST)

Is this build on the way out?

I'd like to open a little discussion here before i vote on this. In the TA i've been playing, the new overpowered skills of today are certainly not to be found on these bars, namely, WoD, OoS, AoS, and EDA. Are they slowly edging out this sort of balanced setup for superiority or is this holding out well? I havent been playing it enough, and frankly every time i've been on the recieving end of a good balanced team i kissed my glad points good bye.Dark0805sig2 19:49, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Still works, but EDA is becoming meta too. This is far from archive yet but I can see it happening in a while. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 02:25, 6 February 2008 (EST)
Short answer: no.
Long answer: you can completely outbuild a balanced template, but a balanced template is the only template that gives you a reasonable chance versus the most potential matchups. That said, the necromancer is probably a bit dated as the choice for that utility slot; it's very solid, but a lot of teams make it a point of bringing effective solutions for hexes, and this requires that you place great faith in the ranger's d-shot ability and the ability to corrupt spotless. It remains the most definitive solution for physical damage, but can be fairly susceptable to disruption and strong removal, and is absolutely futile in certain matchups. In place of the necromancer, EDA has recently started to come back, just after the fairly recent development of motivation platforms.
To be frank once again, this article remains fairly barebones and inadequate. If I had the time, inclination, or understanding of wiki boundaries, I would rewrite it from scratch as a proper treatise, and once again submit it for new voting. Such an article, realistically, would have to address the very concept of balanced, expand on the range of options available as a frontliner, improve usage notes on the ranger, discuss the necromancer as the most fundamental utility slot and the common replacements for it, and provide a number of non-crap monk bars that aren't just super-compressed WoH templates. Sun Fired Blank 02:00, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Addressing the "very concept of balanced" has no place here, this is a build wiki not QQ, and that woh monk is the meta. Common replacements for the necro(i.e. rit) are understood, and turning the usage notes for an element of a team into a how-to-ranger are not what pvx is about. However, your waxing on the fate of this build was helpful and you obviously know you're shit so thx for anwering. Oh, and just fyi, i wasnt talking about out building it, so much as asking about the established templates that are becoming more prolific.Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 12:46, 8 February 2008 (EST)
A description that addresses the "very concept of balanced" could be done in twenty words or less. Off the top of my head: "Balanced uses proven templates for a robust variety of options in the plurality of TA matchups."
In line with that, nothing else prevents the injection of { miniskillbars | ebon dust | crip anthem | shock axe | wounding strike | ineptitude | blah } for common alternatives to the necromancer and frontliner, which would also appropriately expand the article in a terse and efficient matter. Outside of that, you should rename the article to something more specific than just balanced: the title is misleading as it stands.
The first creator of this article clearly felt specific usage notes for the ranger on monks and necromancers were justified for their importance in the mirror matchup. I also consider that advice useful but ultimately inadequate, as other matchups in the mirror (e.g. ranger to ranger) are just as important and ubiquitous, and should consequently be noted. Under that line of reasoning, that leaves only two very clear but incompatible resolutions. The first is expansion of the usage notes and the second is a reduction of usage notes. In general, I would favor an expansion of usage notes under the style and formatting dictates of PvXwiki. It clearly states: "Present usage information as much as possible in brief and in bulleted form." Absolutely nothing in line with that policy conflicts with adding other highly important usage notes like: "Stop other team from ressing" or "Prevent purge signet on opposing rangers," so long as it's done briefly and in bulleted form. In fact, judging from that the policy, writers are encouraged to provide terse but comprehensive usage notes rather than some anemic excuse that quite frankly doesn't help anyone. This argument does not apply to only the ranger; I would favor more useful usage notes for every character on the team, but I consider the ranger's usage notes to be most clearly inadequate, which is why I picked on it versus the other templates.
Finally, I'm not sure why you seem so hostile when I simply answered your question (and every relevant concern you voiced), and super-compressed WoH bars are really not the meta. Sun Fired Blank 18:27, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Get patient spirit. SB fails. Get a good monk bar with dstance. Ranger needs debil. War needs rend enchant, or shock. shock only if you run sexy corrupt. Reckless is useless. Need PoF/IPara. If your ranger can't spam mbane and kill guardian, just resign. That is how worthless defile is. You can't run this build. --Readem 19:26, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Oh, and vocal is you are r6+. Is lulz win. --Readem 19:27, 13 February 2008 (EST)

You know Readem is back by the semi-incomprehensible blocks of text consisting of equal parts insult and unsupported suggestions that start appearing at the bottom of talk pages. Lord Belar 19:29, 13 February 2008 (EST)
The monk bar is old. Debil is run to pref, I've seen high ranked run Screaming for it's +dmg in spikes and overall pressure. That's what the optional slot is for. Parabond does a lot less then defile, but has the advantage of 3 less recharge (whoopdie fucking doo) (and you can counter gay Soldier's Defense paragay). Reckless isn't useless, it's 50% miss chance.... — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 19:31, 13 February 2008 (EST)

I would run pbond just for the +100 health lulz. Yeah, screaming is ok, but everyone and their brother uses cripslash. It will be drawn/mtouched regardless. I prefer ward, if just for goth-spike. Oh, and I met more good people for TA =). r7 glad monk ftw lulz. Way the fuck better than andros ;p. --Readem 19:56, 13 February 2008 (EST)

If you lose to goth get a new ranger =P — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 19:58, 13 February 2008 (EST)
We actually have a good ranger tbh. Mang found us a cool monk and ranger to TA with. We got to 22, before blinds had to GvG. I always have ayr, silver, (sometimes soki) and a few other good people in case we need a sub. I still have yet to play with brian, other then HA. We only lose to vega's gothspike tho (they have gud tactics) --Readem 20:03, 13 February 2008 (EST)
Beat vega multiple times in TA running balanced (seriously, theres nothing you can do to avoid getting your Shove magebaned or delaying your predictable spike so mucht hat they have time to prot). Running that gimmick i got 85 glad points in the past 4 days, with all people less than glad 3 (exception of Zur who came once) — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 23:23, 13 February 2008 (EST)
Depends on the map (often times, they will shove, then grapple behind a corner for extra win). If that fails, then they will just mix up the order until you miss shove. I usually face them on the crag, where they have the advantage :/. --Readem 20:43, 14 February 2008 (EST)

monk

can't remember last skill, prx fix. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 19:42, 13 February 2008 (EST)

Shielding hands?--Goldenstar 19:43, 13 February 2008 (EST)

That monk bar is completely ftw. --Evernix 12:07, 16 February 2008 (EST) I TA'd on Sunday and had Ele spikes all over the place. Without Spirit Bond, I'm not sure if I had been able to hold them. Maybe add that one? Sure, it's useless against the meta of SA/crit. scythe, but there are many ele spikes around too (Ride the Lightning to be concrete) Bastian 02:05, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Update for meta ?

Cripslash

Crippling Slash Gash Sun and Moon Slash Bull&#039;s Strike Frenzy Rush Hex Breaker Resurrection Signet

Magebane

Magebane Shot Distracting Shot Debilitating Shot Apply Poison Natural Stride Rend Enchantments Antidote Signet Resurrection Signet

Necro

Corrupt Enchantment Enfeeble Foul Feast Plague Sending Defile Defenses Faintheartedness Shield Bash Resurrection Signet

Monk

Patient Spirit Word of Healing Signet of Rejuvenation Guardian Mending Touch Shield Bash Holy Veil Protective Spirit

(variant: Prot spirit or mending touch --> spotless mind)

These bars are just good with current meta. Necro and monk just can't be spiked with shield bash (also pwnz hard Covenant-way), ranger has natural stride and warior has gud armor. Hex Breaker helps a lot VS hexway and usual balanced. The pressure is the same, the team have corrupt + rend which is just nice. Necro's shield bash is also good to prevent Dshot on faint or other important spells and Foul+Plague >> Blind Mesmers. Discuss. Mr BArtel 14:13, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

PS? Railin-WoH Railin 14:55, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
Maybe WoD over CE and bring rip over enfeeble. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 15:06, 9 April 2008 (EDT)
I already thought about WoD and tried it. The team works better with CE (more pressure) and warior spikes with bull's strike anyway (if he had disarm, i would run WoD). Enfeeble is just another condition, good for pressure and reducing damage.Mr BArtel 16:10, 9 April 2008 (EDT)

WoD > CE

True story. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 18:42, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

 ?

How did a build with foul feast + draw get voted excellent? Railin-WoH Railin 12:05, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Because it was made like a year ago and someone forgot to take out draw? ... The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 12:07, 19 June 2008 (EDT)

Umm/. why is there no votes yet in tested on homepage? Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 05:53, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

Readem did a massive rewrite, I wiped the votes. ~ ĐONT*SYSOP 05:56, 11 July 2008 (EDT)

This is better

Warrior

Devastating Hammer Crushing Blow Heavy Blow Bull&#039;s Strike Enraging Charge Flail Death&#039;s Charge Resurrection Signet

Ranger

Magebane Shot Distracting Shot Debilitating Shot Apply Poison Natural Stride Mending Touch Purge Signet Resurrection Signet

Necromancer

Corrupt Enchantment Rip Enchantment Defile Defenses Faintheartedness Reckless Haste Price of Failure Glyph of Lesser Energy Resurrection Signet

Monk

Zealous Benediction Reversal of Fortune Guardian Gift of Health Draw Conditions Mending Touch Holy Veil Shield Bash

Loser223 13:29, 12 July 2008 (EDT)

Awesome N/E/Rt. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 02:04, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
Why no Mo/E/W/Me? Channeling + Glyph of Lesser Energy + Shield Bash. maybe Mo/E/W/Me/R for natural stride, or Mo/E/W/Me/A for Dash/Dark Escape ;d — Abedeus User Abedeus Sig 05:36, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
I didn't put that there, someone obviously editted that. Loser223 18:52, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
ZB with gift is bad, WoH is way better for pressure healing (patient is so fucking good). WoD is way more pressure than corrupt, and reckless haste is pretty baed in TA. Remove hex is also alot more popular than purge sig cuz purge sig is lol dshot, and hex stacks arent meta anymore (Lots of teams drop cover hexes entirely). The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 19:09, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
Also that warrior build is baed. Weakness will get drawn + Magehunter's is so much better. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 19:11, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
I love dev hammer =( The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 19:14, 14 July 2008 (EDT)

I'm not seeing the point

of DH over MHS in the current bar. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 14:59, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

The only advantage I see is lulzilly linebacking, but linebacking with your elite in TA on a frontliner is pretty funny. Brandnew. 15:05, 29 July 2008 (EDT)

re-write

  • Changed to corrupt due to multiple monk meta. WoD is not as useful because of that reason.
  • Due to hexway, emp is infinitely more useful than magebane. Besides, only the best can run balanced; and when you are the best, MB is simply redundant.
  • Replaced SB with dual-stance, since you can't cast shit with a constant barrage of interrupts on you. Necessary in the current shit meta.
  • War is the same. Dev hammer, because linebacking is great at times; and because it is less add than say MHS (which is useless when every monk has either SB or dual-stance). Also, being able to spike with DH<CB<HB is undeniably the greatest thing next to sliced bread (when it comes to tri-smite).
  • Ask any r9-10 why these changes were made, you will most assuredly receive the same responses.
  • Credit goes to one of the memebers of vD, who suggested the popular magebane change.

--Readem 20:10, 16 August 2008 (EDT)

First of all EMP wasn't suggested by Karla or any of vD members and this template is not what the remnants of good players actually run nowadays. 2 things which destroyed TA are Anet and this lameshit wiki with pve noobs trying to get high numbers all over. You can find good players on gw guru where they discuss how to beat shitty lame builds posted here.89.102.109.174 07:26, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
lol im speccin ur hexway --Tab MooTab Piplup 07:49, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
I guess if they have to discuss it, then the builds have done their job.--Relyk IkeR e l y k 05:53, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

ups, I guess I am wrong fggt --Readem 20:05, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

I'm a huge proponent of Iron Palm and Strength: 14 on the frontliner. Heavy Blow is extra damage, but if you're not on the necro then you're unlikely to land your second knock. Hammer Bash is the superior option. Iron Palm also has the same problem but is fairly disposable, you rarely fail the knock from it, and it gives you an extra way to maneuver around stances and Shield Bash. Other very amusing and functional options for the frontliner: Distracting Strike, Shock, Warrior's Cunning. If you miserably fail TA and you mostly lineback, then ignore my advice, stick with Grasping.
Empathic Removal isn't definitive. I think there's value to Empathic Removal, and I hardly begrudge anyone for using it, but you're mistaken if you think you must or should run it. Magebane's a very strong elite: it ensures you can disable an enemy ranger's preparation through Natural Stride, it makes disruption on key options meaningful even if they have fairly minimal recharges, it obviously ignores the dual stances on your monk build, and it has ridiculous disposability for these tasks.
Your spread on the monk is not doable, you must divert a rank from Healing Prayers to achieve it. I dislike the bar, although every other monk runs it, and it's okay.
There are some other aspects that I dislike, but as my Wiki editing skills are rather mediocre, I'm not overly inclined to fix the page.
On a final note: g9 to g10? Who plays TA consistently that is ranked so high? As the Koreans are mostly inactive from TA, Karla is the only g9 that readily comes to mind, and her opinion is hardly the ultimate verdict for TA. I'd like to know exactly who I can speak to. Sun Fired Blank 18:29, 20 September 2008 (EDT)
The korean guy that was the leader of that top 10 gvg guild(they ran 4/4 split), I believe his name is infinity, is glad 10. I dunno if he stills plays TA tho.—ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 05:31, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
Identity? I don't even know if he plays GW anymore, esp. after the [Glad] membership debacle. Sun Fired Blank 05:05, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Heavy blow = Fail. Stoella 07:20, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

This Article

.. needs major cleanup..

Your Dev hammer W/E has no ele skills, and no dev hammer, your Mo/W has 12/10/7 lolol xD other random stuff too... ICYFIFTYFIVE 02:01, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Since when did people stop using dual stance? —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 05:54, 16 November 2008 (EST)

I thought everyone used dual stance. --FrostyMini england 05:57, 16 November 2008 (EST)
appears readem says otherwise--Get Your Wood On Discuss 06:05, 16 November 2008 (EST)

Why earth shaker over dev hammer? ICYFIFTYFIVE 21:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)

One more adrenaline for a potential devastation if you are lucky/good. Getting down two people in a ES basically guarantees a kill on one if both are midline/monk.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 12:59, 20 November 2008 (EST)
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