copy pasta for the win, swords are shmexy. --Frosty 10:54, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- You make me sad in pants, Frosty. You know full well that the elite on a sword warrior is for utility and not frenzy. -
10:57, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- Frenzy with IMS means stupidly easy bull's Strike and much more pressure. --Frosty 11:05, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- It's just as easy to BS with just the IMS or IAS, otherwise l2warrior, taking PR over Cripslash is just stupid. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ
11:06, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- You do not understand the strength of Perma Frenzy with an IMS. --Frosty 11:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- Frenzy is perma already. Bull's strike is easy anyway with cripple spam. Plus it's on 12s recharge so you can't really spam it more than you can with frenzyrush. - 11:41, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- 12 recharge? Primal is 4. And ofcourse you can permafrenzy but then you can get kited, perma Primal means you a lot more pressure. --Frosty 11:47, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- Frenzy is perma already. Bull's strike is easy anyway with cripple spam. Plus it's on 12s recharge so you can't really spam it more than you can with frenzyrush. -
- You do not understand the strength of Perma Frenzy with an IMS. --Frosty 11:17, 12 December 2008 (EST)
- It's just as easy to BS with just the IMS or IAS, otherwise l2warrior, taking PR over Cripslash is just stupid. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹ
- Frenzy with IMS means stupidly easy bull's Strike and much more pressure. --Frosty 11:05, 12 December 2008 (EST)
dR runs Infuse on rangers.--75.94.77.148 04:33, 13 December 2008 (EST)
- Strong. --Frosty 04:34, 13 December 2008 (EST)
Wtf its 4 seconds now?--
ChristmasRelyk 14:09, 13 December 2008 (EST)
- Recharge. --Frosty 14:50, 13 December 2008 (EST)
I really don't see why you think perma 33% IAS/IMS isn't good pressure. —SkaKid
23:01, 13 December 2008 (EST)
- Thank you skaddidles, waited for someone good to say it :> --Frosty 06:30, 14 December 2008 (EST)
I'd rather run 2 charge warriors than this. Asdfg 09:02, 14 December 2008 (EST)
- Ok...heres the thing with primal. Its an elite frenzy, meaning you waste an elite attack for more pressure. That IMS and IAS isnt going to do anything if your snared or blocked. You STILL need a cancel stance, meaning your bar isnt getting compressed by using it. I still favore Dev hammer or Evisc over elite frenzy anyday. 72.15.84.217 18:13, 14 December 2008 (EST)
- Thank you 72.15.84.217, waited for someone even better to say otherwise. --Ulterion 21:57, 22 December 2008 (EST)
- Ok...heres the thing with evis. Its an elite dismember, meaning you waste an elite insane pressure skill for more (less) damage. That elite attack skill isnt going to do anything if your snared or blocked. You STILL need a followup damage skill, meaning your bar isnt getting compressed by using it. I still favor primal rage over elite dismember anyday.
- c wut i did that? —SkaKid
22:03, 22 December 2008 (EST)
- Dismember has no damage, thus lacks better pressure than Eviscerate. Eviscerate has both damage and DW compacted together, thus being much more desirable. Saccing Eviscerate for Primal Rage and Dismember for a slight advantage in speed is far less viable in my view. You're in no need for slightly faster bulls strike either, imho. Additionally, if you intend on staying P.R.'d then you have absolutely no intent on staying alive and haven't a care or consideration in the world for your monk(s) and their strain in healing you. Thus, you fail completely if that is your intent with P.R.. Concluding, damage/dw is FTW! Eviscerate > P.Rage. --Ulterion 14:31, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- Who else stopped reading after "Dismember has no damage, thus lacks good pressure"? Spaggage talk 14:35, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- I can easily DW using Sundering Weapon (from a coordinated teammate) and Body Blow, which makes dismember look like a joke. Dismember has 0 damage bonus at 14-16 axe mastery while body blow provides 36++ damage. Same with Eviscerate. Hell even CLEAVE and body blow with sundering weapon carries more damage and the same deepwound for far less adrenaline! Dismember is just 'bleh' to me. -.- Deep wound alone does not do me justice unless coupled with Battle Rage perhaps, and even then I'd still rather employ the body blow combo vice Dismember. Dismember is shit compared to the above facts stated. --Ulterion 17:32, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- 5 adren no requirement deep wound, relying on your team mate for deep wound when your a warr is fairly bad. --Frosty 17:57, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- Relying on a teammate's not bad. Relying on a 'bad' teammate's what's bad about it. You rollin' with 'bad' teammates, Frosty? Can't be coordinated enough? DW = DW =DW (doesn't matter how much you try & switch it around). Now, you wouldn't want to allow him to run split and away from the Rt carrying Sundering. That'd make no sense as his spikability and effectiveness as a whole will drop. Common sense says "hello! Let's have them both run together." And ofc that Rt must be equipped to perform for whatever specific scenarios they're to face. --Ulterion 10:20, 24 December 2008 (EST)
- It's just stupidly clunky though, it gives your warr a lot less freedom of calling, Sundering Wep is nice just for the extra damage (pretty damn good on turrets) but having to use it on every spike means the enemy teams r or me will be able to cut out your deep wound (d-shot, cry/pleak atc it's 1 sec cast so lol). --Frosty 10:36, 24 December 2008 (EST)
- Relying on a teammate's not bad. Relying on a 'bad' teammate's what's bad about it. You rollin' with 'bad' teammates, Frosty? Can't be coordinated enough? DW = DW =DW (doesn't matter how much you try & switch it around). Now, you wouldn't want to allow him to run split and away from the Rt carrying Sundering. That'd make no sense as his spikability and effectiveness as a whole will drop. Common sense says "hello! Let's have them both run together." And ofc that Rt must be equipped to perform for whatever specific scenarios they're to face. --Ulterion 10:20, 24 December 2008 (EST)
- 5 adren no requirement deep wound, relying on your team mate for deep wound when your a warr is fairly bad. --Frosty 17:57, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- I can easily DW using Sundering Weapon (from a coordinated teammate) and Body Blow, which makes dismember look like a joke. Dismember has 0 damage bonus at 14-16 axe mastery while body blow provides 36++ damage. Same with Eviscerate. Hell even CLEAVE and body blow with sundering weapon carries more damage and the same deepwound for far less adrenaline! Dismember is just 'bleh' to me. -.- Deep wound alone does not do me justice unless coupled with Battle Rage perhaps, and even then I'd still rather employ the body blow combo vice Dismember. Dismember is shit compared to the above facts stated. --Ulterion 17:32, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- Who else stopped reading after "Dismember has no damage, thus lacks good pressure"? Spaggage talk 14:35, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- Dismember has no damage, thus lacks better pressure than Eviscerate. Eviscerate has both damage and DW compacted together, thus being much more desirable. Saccing Eviscerate for Primal Rage and Dismember for a slight advantage in speed is far less viable in my view. You're in no need for slightly faster bulls strike either, imho. Additionally, if you intend on staying P.R.'d then you have absolutely no intent on staying alive and haven't a care or consideration in the world for your monk(s) and their strain in healing you. Thus, you fail completely if that is your intent with P.R.. Concluding, damage/dw is FTW! Eviscerate > P.Rage. --Ulterion 14:31, 23 December 2008 (EST)
Skakid ownz--ChristmasRelyk 17:59, 23 December 2008 (EST)
- W/P pwnz dis with Barbed/Maiming/Cruel spear attacks, unconsequential IAS with cancel, ranged damage, need I say more? --Ulterion 09:42, 25 December 2008 (EST)
You just don't understand, do you Beans? Prove to me how the fuck severe artery/gash can't be accomplished via W/P? Just because you only have 12 spear, doesn't mean it's a detrimental shift in damage and is no longer comparable to the sword. L2P. Otherwise, W/P wouldn't have been vetted! W/P can apply the same shitty artery/gash BS but with a twist:-------> RANGE!<-------- Not to mention the fact that you DON'T TAKE DOUBLE DAMAGE. OMGWTFCAPSAREKEWL! So what if you don't have Bull's Strike with a little more IAS? What good is PRage when you can't upkeep it for long durations? Unless your opposition's completely fucking STUPID, they're gonna maintain pressure on that warrior! He's going to go on lockdown with a quickness if they're smart. If I'm using an RaO, I'm going to lock my pet on him and pressure him with my Ebon Hammer just as soon as he enters his stance! If I'm a Water Ele, he's fucked! I'm going to ensure that he stays steamed/blurred/snared. If I'm a necro, he's going to suffer 50% slowdown from my faintheartedness and defile defenses/parasitic cover. If I'm a warrior within the vicinity it's gonna be "swap to elemental weapon and punish his ass for using P.Rage on my watch. I'll frenzy when he's stationary and make sure to keep my rush charged up so when he takes off I'm at equal speed to catch him when he goes stationary again. He's getting owned in other words.. and guess what? His IAS is his Elite?! OMFGLMAOPWN'D! --Ulterion 18:03, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- tl;dr.
- for part I did read: <3 Brandnew. 18:06, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- didnt read any of it, but someone put it under epically stupid quotes for me anyway Christmas Tab Rally-kupo! 18:06, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Put it like this.. until Anet decides to scale the damage to as little as 60% or <, I'm not even batting an eye on P.Rage or even consider it Elite! --Ulterion 18:07, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- Put it like this.. until a law is passed that means mentally retarded children need to be aborted, we'll have to put up with people like you! Christmas Tab Rally-kupo! 18:09, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- (EC)God, you are retarded. Brandnew. 18:10, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- All I see are insults and ZERO viable counter-debate. If insulting me is your last and only way to deal with this discussion, hit Alt+F4 plox kthnxbai! --Ulterion 18:12, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- Double damage is negated by cancel stance or even asking for a prot spirit, swords have bigger dps then spears, bulls is amazing utility. Brandnew. 18:14, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- All I see are insults and ZERO viable counter-debate. If insulting me is your last and only way to deal with this discussion, hit Alt+F4 plox kthnxbai! --Ulterion 18:12, 25 December 2008 (EST)
Dude, W/P are made for hero's in HB, and are like only good in RA... 
Frosty po! 18:16, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- Reason? ________________________________________________. --Ulterion 18:18, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- Double damage is negated by cancel stance or even asking for a prot spirit, swords have bigger dps then spears, bulls is amazing utility. Brandnew. 18:14, 25 December 2008 (EST) Brandnew. 18:19, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- Cause they are bad, less pressure, less damage. The only reason to run W/P is because they're easy to use/easy for hero's to use and cause they have easily appliable daze, it's a completely diff build... Frosty po! 18:20, 25 December 2008 (EST)
- As far as I know, any double-damage sustained while in that window is.. well.. SUSTAINED! Be that as it may, that's not even the problem or point! The problem is that you're selecting Frenzy and Rush Compacted together with no real difference other than PURELY just that! I'd rather go Frenzy/Rush and compact Dismember and Cleave (or Eviscerate) together! But an Elite Frenzy/Rush two-for-one BS is just horribad! Fuck faster Bull's Strikes! Fuck wasting an elite on a degraded RaO or Onslaught. Glorify it's new functionality in attempts at making it worthwhile all you want! I'll stay Shock Axe tyvm! --Ulterion 18:27, 25 December 2008 (EST)