General Discussion and Effectiveness

Right! That's that sorted. I'm awaiting confirmation that I can use the videos of the builds on YouTube from their owner. I will get round to the other stuff in the meantime. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

thanks for making this! AthrunAthrun SigFeya 17:48, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Keine probleme! --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

What is the process for featuring a build, and how would I go about doing it? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Emm, what was that random IP doing deleting it? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:11, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Probably another guy who thinks this is his build and only he is entitled to use it. Sigh. AthrunAthrun SigFeya 17:16, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I know what it was. It was one of my friends. He went beserk on me last night, giving the alliance the PvX wiki = Nerf, PvX wiki = Noobs steal builds and PvX wiki = Prices going down speeches. Dunno why, he was really supported when I first posted it. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:12, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


I know the Time for Heroes build works but I have no clue why you have 3x Protective Bond. I didn't think maintained enchantments stacked. Devika 17:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind I read it up on wiki. Devika 17:52, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Can this be done in NM, HM or both? How much time does it take? And yes, thank you very much for posting builds. :) --ValeV 18:16, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

This is to be done in HM. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 18:21, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Smart idea. Just out of curiosity, are people already running this? I'm wondering how much I could charge :D KJ badge sig 18:41, 1 September 2009
I'm sure I have seen Guru pages ages ago regarding these. I can' remember anything about them though. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 18:43, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
K, then. Still a cool idea. Good thing my sin needs to max all his ranks :D. KJ badge sig 18:51, 1 September 2009
Btw, I would suggest that you expand your equipment section and either delete or put content in your notes section. A lot of people that come here wont know what the equipment is for...and the Notes section is blank. KJ badge sig 19:07, 1 September 2009

3k points? From r0 to r10 you must do 54 runs. THIS IS 54!!! (my points is, that's too much and 3k is not much) Also, i always die at Great Destroyer. Do heroes need to have all those runs? Also, while tracking the nornbear, I activate last shrine, but then we get rezzed at start, because (dead) heroes are still there. :/ --ValeV 19:15, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I think the idea is to run others and earn money. You can't exactly run someone through every single HM EotN mission. KJ badge sig 19:18, 1 September 2009
"The point of this farm is get a large amount of reputation points." from this build article. But, you also get some points during/completing the missions, right?
And, if the 15 minutes is true, that's 13 hours and 30 minutes for all ranks in a title (you get r4/5 from the main missions usually). Not bad, imo, since you can space it apart far and wide. --- VipermagiSig -- (contribs) (talk) 19:25, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

In response to ValeV. Are you sure you're not activating the res shrine? The heroes shouldn't be flagged to the group of Mandragor in front, instead, run a little to the left, and there will be a group there. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 19:35, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Am I doing something wrong, I have completed all quests up to ATHF, yet for some reason, I am bonded and everything, heroes are prfectly runed for pbond. Yet for some reason I cant make it to the great destroyer ? What am I doing wrong ? ViNcE Manly Elite Skill 19:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

So you dont have to kill the norn bear spawns? >.>--Relyk 20:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Note: you should NOT be using this for either dwarf or norn titles. Both can be done faster by doing norn fast farm/snowmen. This IS faster for asuran than raptors and there's no good farm for ebon. Those two tracks are what speedbooks are for--TahiriVeila 20:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Actually... this is faster than norn fast farm, I complete 1 speedbook in 10 minutes... therefore much faster than norn fast farm.

I have problems killing Nornbear. I use discordway and protection, earth, fire and fighter henchman. I can't kill him. Any tips which h/h use?--ValeV 20:57, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Dont use discordway, he uses gw:Shattered Spirit. use sabway, roj monks, or just about anything else--Relyk 21:00, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
As for doing ATHF ? Any tips ? ViNcE Manly Elite Skill 21:04, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

If you had a team of a monk and sin do this, the monk could run past the jotun in curse of the norn bear bravely while the perma spawns the norn bear, then bring protective bond, soh, and oov so the perma can kill the norn bear. then the sin and monk can individually do the other two. im not sure if a monk can make it past the jotun, but it shouldn't be too hard using spell breaker and running skills. you could run 6 people at a time.--Relyk 21:10, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I also can't make it to the destroyer. The large amount of packets of damage just overwhelms my regen. What am i doing wrong?--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 23:09, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind. You MIGHT want to mention on the page that you need 105 hp.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 23:15, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I will try with Sabway. Also please add more informations under specific builds, like that you need 105hp for Great destroyer, add links to youtube, etc. etc. --ValeV

Discordway works fine for me... just have PI on him when he uses Spirit Roar (usually right when he comes back from the Spirit Realm). Also try to interrupt Escape to the Spirit Realm.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 20:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)


1) ATC: BuH is way better than FH. Do the math FFS, noobs.
2) ATFH: FFSWTFBBQ. What the fuck is this bonder shit? Just use your favorite necroway and MS/DB.

--User:Thc 07:14, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Forreal, AtfH is gonna take forever with this, and i doubt anyone will try it, since Discord/Sabway can wreck it anyways, And ^ Buh is nice, but i brought FN(feigned neutrality) for against the charr, though it wasn't toally needed, I like Finish him, but you're soloing a caster boss, so it's 10e for a deepwound, that won't matter, BUH would dish otu a faster kill.DBreezy 07:18, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
pain inverter+party heals kills great destroyers--Relyk 07:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
lol, you right, you rightDBreezy 07:28, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

It takes 20 seconds to kill the Great Destroyer. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 07:47, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

It does with discordway/sabway +PI too, it's nto a hard mission, we're trying to say you dun need to go all out for itDBreezy 07:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
I realize you're trying to help, but you had said further up that TGD would take forever with this, and it doesn't. Videos are up, BTW. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Yeh, I was imaginig it would, watched the video, good job. Guess I was wtrong, sorry ^^DBreezy 08:15, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

For ATFH you should have Incoming, maybe Fall Back, and Make Haste on one of the bonders and you really dont need BiP or any sort of energy management past blessed sig. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 18:31, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think the point of the bonders is so you can take leechers. And no, you can't tell leechers to help you kill the great destroyer. Most of them are complete idiots. I had a group of leechers that had trouble dying in the beginning of Nornbear.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 18:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Video Links

dont work.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 22:17, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I got that too. I'm not sure what to do about it, maybe I'll just post the URLs there. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:09, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


I think that it's ready for testing now. What do you all think? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 11:40, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'll vote 5-5-5.--ValeV 13:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
This is the best/cheapest way to get reputation. Pretty much everyone has a perma/knows somebody with a perma. I have done this alot with my guild this are our times:
  • A Time For Heroes : 20sec-1 min
  • Curse of the Nornbear : 2-3 min
  • Against the Charrs : 1:50-2:30
  • This gives using medium values: 40+150+130= 320 sec => 5,3 min.
  • In one hour that is 60/5.3*3000=33 962 rep points.
  • To get down to these times you have to do it a few times, also travelling and setting up builds does take some time.
  • And yes I too vote for testing, 5-5-5 K0n$3rv 14:34, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
You've got to be bullshitting me. it takes longer to walk from point A to B with essence than it takes with those projected times.-- 14:52, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Timea aren't too far off if you know what you are doing tbh. Devika 15:05, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
I've been getting 3 for ATC, 5 for nornbear, and <1 for ATFH. I guess i need more practice :(Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 19:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
With Curse of the Norn Bear try doing it in a group with at least 2 permas, it's faster. Against the Charr is good in a group with party wide IMS like Fall Back, Incoming, etc. Devika 22:03, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
If you do it by yourself it takes much longer tho-- 18:18, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Pls Explain

These are 3 misions u need 9 to turn teh bock over and u said ull allrdy have 5 doen how will i have 5 done dotn i need to do tham to pls explain better

Heroes' handbook comes with the 5 main quests already filled out in the book if you have completed them already. And you only need 8 pages to turn it in.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 19:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
16/2 = 8. 5+3=8. Get it?--ValeV 19:58, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
^ i need a runner for mah monk MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 22:21, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Did it today took 1 hour to get 12000 points thank you for making this will rate 5-5-5 maxed out entire norn deldrimor and vanguard title in 1 day asura was allrdy maxed thank u for sharing this with us in the name of the community i thank you

NOW GIVE ME FREE RUNS NAO! MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 01:41, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
do it on ur perma D:--Relyk 02:03, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Lol, monk perma SF with secondary ele for sliver is win. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:17, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

seriously, all you need is like 2 monks spamming party heals while u keep pi on the great destroyer and interrupt him...--Relyk 02:59, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

U cant run people with that. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 13:02, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
yes you can :< i do it once in awhile when im bored.--Relyk 06:36, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
Explain what you mean in more detail then and how long it takes. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 15:35, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
3 roj monks with divine healing/heaven's delight, one with soh on sin. everyone stands in range of destroyer to get hit, you can make them bring heals. interrupt with ymlad, disrupting dagger, exhausting assault, etc. you can bring echo for pi. critical eye+crit agility keeps energy up. interrupt him until pi kills him. takes about a minute--Relyk 00:07, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
Ok, but its still really fast to use the build on the page and i would bet much safer. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:03, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
Asuran Scan Golden Fox Strike Wild Strike Death Blossom &quot;I Am Unstoppable!&quot; Frigid Armor Critical Agility Shroud of Distress
Offering of Blood Signet of Devotion Blessed Signet Watchful Spirit Essence Bond Protective Bond Strength of Honor Rebirth

That will kill him as long as the bonder doesn't die and you can kill Seekers before they dshot your chain or something. there seems to be a random destroyer of hope that will aggro the bonder easily :/ and take on the destroyer warriors one at a time or you get overwhelmed. 2 monks would make it even easier--Relyk 07:01, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the point of killing the great destroyer is to do it as fast as possible? this kinda just does baby steps toward it until there's nothing left to damage you but it.(the above build w/ explanation) Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 13:40, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

against the charr

im havin trouble with seekers. any remedies? i can avoid them getting there, it's when they're right next to the dude that's killin me Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 21:19, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Use feigned neutrality and don't die?--TahiriVeila 21:42, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
i watched the video and they went a completely different way than i did, so i didn't run into any problems after that. Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 23:57, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
I use stoneflesh aura. Its the best protection but has its disadvantages (energy, cast time). --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:02, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
That made me think of something completely different than GW. ---Chaos- 13:48, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
Lol. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 14:37, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

I just tried ATFH without runes on monks and you can do it in same time. So no need to spend money on runes for them.--ValeV 19:02, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

You need at least minor prot for 3 energy loss from prot bond. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:08, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
monks can deal with the energy pretty easily--Relyk 23:13, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
They shouldnt need to. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:19, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
you don't need runes, use them if you got them, pointless argument really--Relyk 23:26, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
If you have the runes you dont need BiP/BR so u can bring incoming, fall back, and make haste. Since half the mission is running, you can shave about 15% of the time by doing so. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:19, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
that's not the build though :/--Relyk 02:03, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
And the build is unchangeable? --- Ressmonkey (talk) 19:35, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Against the Charr Videos

I was running Against the Charr before this build was released on pvx. I use a slightly different build and run a path the avoids almost all enemy groups. I personally think the way I do it is faster and easier, and I had posted videos on youtube for them. The Nm one shows the run and the boss, while the Hm video only shows the end.

Normal Mode

Hard Mode--Vgfanatic2 01:58, September 10, 2009 (UTC)


people are actually running this at doomlore lol--Relyk 02:32, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'd pay for it, go afk for an hour, or just put a movie on my other screen. nab some popcorn etc.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 04:00, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
you still have to turn book in ^^ its too bad you cant stack them--Relyk 07:07, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

AFKing will slow it down, after ATC you have to map I think, and the cinematics take a long time...

You could watch a movie on a different screen, but you'd have to be able to see GW, because you'd need to skip cutscenes, switch books to first position et al. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 11:49, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
If only. 30k rep in one run would be so much nicer. Btw, good to see you about the other day.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 15:38, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

ATFH sin

I was too lazy to go out and cap Mobius Strike so I just replaced it with Locust's Fury. I ran 15 daggers, 13 crit, 10 earth and it seemed to go a lot faster. Troah 08:39, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

how do you know it went faster if you didn't have moebius strike ... -- Drah 03:23, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I never said it DID go faster I said it "seemed" to go faster, and I have a friend that did it and timed each other, I was 7.2 seconds faster then him. :-p Troah 05:16, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


you run this build, you'll always be the first to book your times. ---Chaos- 08:56, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

13:40~ is my best so far. Damn loading screens.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 06:09, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


Ain't that fast?

Not even close to as fast as nornbear. And its only worth your time to do a 4th one if you can do it in 7 and a half minutes, which u cant. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 11:21, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Another reason to nerf Shadowform, Great job :) 03:21, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

No. Another reason to get GW2 out faster. Titles suck, getting them up fast is good.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 04:17, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Speak for yourself. I can do GOLEM in 7-8 mins.--Vgfanatic2 21:41, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

And I can do speedbook in 12... --- Ressmonkey (talk) 21:47, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather do 3 missions faster than 4 missions slower. and adding 1 more quest doesn't make a big enough difference for me to use more time than it would to just do ATFH+ATC combined.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 06:07, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


ign:pwnage muffin, gogogo, no1's ever running this anywhere so ye run me nao! MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 22:57, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

ikomono was running it like two days ago. go sit in doomlore--Relyk 23:55, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Been sitting there all day MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 00:05, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
I've been running this for the past few days all day long. Troah 04:49, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
What's your ign, i would love to have a run MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 17:47, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
Avatar Of Mad King. Troah 22:21, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Another one I do fast is Assault on Stronghold on HM.. get one of your monk heroes to be a smiter.. and smite the Armored Saurus.. you know.. like 600/smite build... and stay to the right the whole time... also another fast mission like Golem... so that's 5 missions.. in about 30mins...

How do you do G.O.L.E.M. in 5 minutes in HM? Could you tell me? F.c.sauer 19:01, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

I think i lost my P---s

I seem to misplaced it somewhere awwwww and i want to pi-s so badly!

ATFH 105 Sin

Just looking to know.. does the armor have to be lowest AL?.. or can normal max armor do the trick.. ? - Saifon

i'm not 100% on this, but I think because the point is you need 105hp for PB, the armour doesn't matter too much', you can always use the low AL and if not use max if you want (low AL is dirt cheap to make (like 10g and a couple of pieces of cloth per piece)) ~ PheNaxKian talk 15:08, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
no it doesnt--Relyk 02:47, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Only 600's really need to worry about Armor Level. Troah 16:49, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
since ur directly attacking something, AL doesn't matter. Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 19:39, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Non-105 variant

In the variants section, it says: Give one of your heroes Life Barrier and an other [sic] Life Bond instead of Blood is Power and Purifying Veil. This way you don't need 105HP. Ok, so I get Life Bond for Purifying Veil, but if you sub out Life Barrier for BiP, you'll end up maintaining 5 enchantments. Are you dropping one of the other maintained enchants as well and if so, which one? --Dfscott 02:35, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

drop essence bond--Relyk 02:39, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
ah, ok, thx -- I was worried about my monks running out of energy, so I dropped balth spirit and *I* got tight on energy (not so I couldn't finish, but it was close). --Dfscott 18:08, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Maintain Balthazar's Spirit on Life Bond Hero for additionnal energy gain/return. Maybe swap skill changes so that Balthazar's Spirit and Life Bond are on same hero. Elephantaliste Noir 19:36, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I'm theeeeee


hello guild wars playing fat guy MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 21:33, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Monk with Stonefist gauntlet using shadowsteps?--Relyk 22:38, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


Eeeeek, a bug!!

Ban him. Reason: Fails at spelling, fails at life and fails at himself :D
Ban you. Reason: Fails at editing, indenting, and signing. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:35, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

what am i doing wrong

my heros keeping dieing leading to me dieing while i run atfh in hm what am i doing wrong? this happens when i do it with 105hp and normal hp versions -- 19:12, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Keep them out of lava. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:24, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
its not that its when the openants cast 100blades when im killing the great destroy then i die -- 17:29, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
it is the lava just noticed how do i stop them running into it ther all flagged away they just run into it weridly -- 17:39, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Then something else is going on, I'm used to 2 Hundred Blades at once, just make sure your heros are flagged far enough back and don't have BIP or Blood Ritual disabled.-- 17:43, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
kk ill try again -- 18:20, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

i had the wrong runes on heros i can do it now ty all :) -- 19:19, October 22, 2009 (UTC)

Also, make sure to precast mystic regen and stability. if you take damage, your heroes will run away from their flags to try and heal you, and die. DarklingN 23:49, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Why three bonders?

<pvxbig> [build prof=Mo/W pro=12+1+3 div=12+1][Balthazar's Spirit][Essence Bond][Life Bond][Protective Bond][Blessed Signet][Signet of Devotion][Empty][Empty][/build] </pvxbig> Prot bond on you, life bond on you, essence bond on you, balth spirit on self, optional balth spirit on you, especially if other bonder has BiP. Need to make sure you enchant up in the right order, can't exactly remember what needs to go on the bottom. Voila, only two bonders required.-- 15:22, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

Isurance. With two bonders, there is more of a risk of a spike of damage, and besides, why not three bonders? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 21:15, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

Sorry an obvious answer there, money. One less bonder means one more person to be ran and if you're going for a max title an extra bit of cash every run adds up (like selling ectoes for 200g more in huge stacks etc etc) FoW 21:31, October 29, 2009 (UTC)

A Time for Heroes

You don't need runes for the three bonders, at least when using the non-105 variant. Hegehhh 18:39, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

For curse.

I've found this to be a lot better. Use SoH when going to Nornbear's first spawn.

Glyph of Swiftness Deadly Paradox Shadow Form Pain Inverter &quot;I Am Unstoppable!&quot; Shadow of Haste Dark Escape Death&#039;s Charge

Mason717 06:36, November 4, 2009 (UTC)

I use ymlad and asuran scan instead iau and pi with discord heroes. bear goes BOOM!--ValeV
plus, how can you spawn nornbear first time in only 20 seconds?--ValeV 13:16, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
This build actually does help. You only have twenty seconds but that isn't too short a time as long as you shadowstep. The shadowstep is key. Actually, you might consider a second one to replace either PI or dark escape. Jhgaylor 04:05, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Stout hearted

At high-ish ranks of dwarf (at least 5), you can stay alive without Mystic Regen due to the life steal from Delver rank, as long as you keep spamming your attack chain. Note- i use non-105hp variant DarklingN 00:59, November 5, 2009 (UTC)

So what do you use instead mystic regeneration? Any variants?--ValeV 19:48, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
Well honestly i haven't run it without mystic regen, but ive run it without USING mystic regen. So i havent thought of any replacements yet :S DarklingN 23:49, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
In normal mode you can use Twisting Fangs' DW to speed up the run by some seconds, but there really isn't any reason not to use Mystic Regen in HM. It's just kind of useful to know that you dont need to panic if it runs out, because it only really helps while your moving up toward the great destroyer. DarklingN 23:55, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible to do ATFH with 2 heroes?

I was just wondering.. it would be nice if we could only use 2 instead of 3 so we can have a PvE monk. Anyone know if this is possible? -- 22:58, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

yup--Relyk 01:09, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

Against the charr speed

&quot;Incoming!&quot; &quot;Fall Back!&quot; &quot;Make Haste!&quot; Enduring Harmony Vocal Was Sogolon Optional Optional Optional

Bringing that along on a morgahn usually speeds the run up quite a bit. Just flag him along with you and he usually makes it long enough to get you a speed boost all the way there (MH!@16 lasts almost 30s, 75% duration boost!)--TahiriVeila 03:26, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

MH lasts 45 seconds (use 12 restoration, fuck leadership). And yeah, this is good, use it. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 20:31, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
How do you get 45s? O.o Sogolon + enduring stack multiplicatively not additively--TahiriVeila 20:41, December 4, 2009 (UTC)
1.5 * 1.44 = 2.16 * 21 ~= 45. Its not .5 * .5 =P --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:07, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

ATFH: "Ensure heroes energy is at maximum"

I used to follow this advice when I first started running this build, but then one day I decided to be reckless and ran off as soon as the bonds were finished. All 3 reached max energy about the same time I reached GD, and it didn't seem to make any difference — besides the fact that I now run it ~5 seconds quicker. —Dr Ishmael Diablo the chicken 00:03, December 7, 2009 (UTC)

ATFH 2 heroes

Offering of Blood Blood Renewal Signet of Devotion Blessed Signet Balthazar&#039;s Spirit Life Bond Essence Bond Protective Bond

Offering of Blood Blood Renewal Signet of Devotion Blessed Signet Succor Strength of Honor Essence Bond Protective Bond

yeah the 3rd monk is a pretty big waste. You can drop signet of devotion for another maintained enchantment. cast prot monks protective bond first and cast bspirit on the both of you.--Relyk chtistmas2ChristmasRelyk 01:17, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Mini skill bars. ---Chaos- (moo) -- 17:26, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

No Sin Needed

You don't need no assa for this. Just die and ghostflag ur heroes in CotN (first to the shrine and then to the spawning spots) and ATC (to the bosses). and any/D can run TFH. It's as fast as a perma running this. KtAN 20:51, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure? Have you tested it? How about Against the Charr?--ValeV 22:05, December 29, 2009 (UTC)
Just tested it. For CoTN, deathflagging works very well. Its not quite as fast as sin because u still need to kill first mandragor group, but its pretty good. For ATfH, theres Build:Any/A ATFH Runner. For against the charr, deathflagging again works very well. Run north to begin with to avoid fighting the first group. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:07, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
So for ATC, the boss will spawn but all the other shit won't? Life Guardian 02:20, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
Yep. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:32, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
I take 6 minutes to run 1 book with Assassin. Is it faster than that? -- 19:39, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
No, but 6 minutes seems impossible... --- Ressmonkey (talk) 20:57, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
Did cotn in 3 minutes that way. Run to the left and kill yourself from the mandragors while you flag heroes to the midsection. I brought fall back on heroes and they made it past mandragors consistently and also speeds it up. Flag heroes on spawns then suicide the rest of the group at final bear, respawn and kill--Relyk talk 22:10, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
atc was also 3 minutes. since you can do ctc in like a minute. im sure 6 minutes total time is feasible--Relyk talk 22:17, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
Maybe if ur using /age, but actually timing it, I doubt u could less than 7. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:24, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
its feasible :P--Relyk talk 22:32, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
To get back to the original question, w/e a sin can do, the no profession can do almost as fast if not at the same speed. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:17, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
except you cant run other people :/--Relyk talk 06:10, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
The point is they can run themselves =P --- Ressmonkey (talk) 06:12, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


I just did it with max armor, and it worked fine. I did this with the three heroes build, as opposed to the 2 hero build. Also i'd like to point out, that ATFH is much easier if you make sure you have the right runes and insignias on you and your heroes ahead of time. (If anyone is wondering, It's runes of attunement and radiant insignias that you need a few of. I think the armor setup should be added to the build page)

Read the Non-105HP Variant near the bottom--Relyk talk 23:13, January 5, 2010 (UTC)


I am having trouble with running CotN. At the first spawn the Mandragors cripple, disease and bleed me. So I am having quite some degeneration and no chance of running away. I can't just run trough, because I have to cast SF. I've been trying with different things, but I just can't get it out. Weird nobody has begun about this before me, so what am I doing wrong? Is there a special thing I should know at that part? Also I am having trouble with knockdowns by Jotun's. In some way they always cast Giant Stomp when I am doing my perma cycle.

Anyways, thanks a lot if anyone can help me out with this. ;) 16:32, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Cast SF right before you agro, dash through, let heroes agro, put SF back up once they agro onto heroes, ????, profit!--TahiriVeila 16:35, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
Usually I let the heroes die at the first group of mandragors, so I can res up at the end where you have to kill the Nornbear. Shall I flag all of the heroes at the mandragors where the first spawn is? :S Also if I use dash trough I'm out of energy very soon. It's the only mission giving me trouble with this speedbooking. 15:54, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

After feb 25

Ok it works but many say that against the char is imposible any ideas or is this just a stupid rumor?

Stupid rumor more than most likely since the nerf really didnt do "much" of anything.-- 13:08, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah thought as much, people like to lie alot on wikis. time to finish up my vangard title once and for all

Sliver Nerf 22.05.2010

ATC Build is not working, because Sliver Armor has been nerfed. qq :(

4th June - Spawn Changes

Does the build still work? I've been out of the game since Christmas, so I have no idea. Could someone please test if this still works and post back ASAP? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 11:19, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Against the Charr doesn't work, I just tried it.
Please sign your comments by leaving four tildes (~) after your message. Does CotN work? Also, are we looking at re-writing the builds to still do those missions, or would it be worth it to tweak the builds so we could perhaps do GOLEM? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 18:21, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
Looks like we either need to re-write this or archive it. It no longer works. The build would need to be completely changed (except the last run). Karate KJ for sig Jesus 19:06, 4 June 2010
I think we should try and re-write it, but if that doesn't work, archiving is, once more, the answer for this build. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 23:37, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
My best guess for atc is bring a bonder and have him stand on the opposite side of the wall (probably possible) and use dash to break aggro from charr warriors unless you can avoid them. Then its simply avoiding interruption from rangers while the war boss might or might not be healed by the prophet. Otherwise, you can just tank there and spam pi on the necro boss until he dies. The bonder can have fall back/incoming so you dont lose too much time anyways--Relyk talk 08:57, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
After testing, you can stay alive with just life bond and armor of earth. You can also avoid the char wars. You can't avoid the seige devourer that attacks your hero though, which can probably be remedied. Also the war boss doesn't die very fast but i only have r6--Relyk talk 21:48, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
updated to the version i got to work--Relyk talk 22:48, June 6, 2010 (UTC)

I do hope somebody can and want to rewrite it.

This page

Is a mess. Someone who has actually done this needs to clean it up. Life Guardian 06:07, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

does this still work?

Fixed, the crap load of anon edits screwed up atc. The rest of the page looks decent enough though--Relyk talk 02:41, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

Time for each run

How much time does it take to complete ATC and CotNB? (Not added together) 09:46, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

A Time For Heros

No need for all those bars. Just bring PI and IAU. and a group of henchies. —Forget 18:38, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

This has been debated before. Consensus: people like triple bonders. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 19:59, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
well would'nt it be better, you can take 7 leechers/ —Forget 20:05, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
pi is a pain to get, so they'd rather use bonders. and people would die before pi killed the boss--Relyk talk 22:30, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Against the Charr

Can this be done consistently? It would be a pain to try to Speedbook farm and die every once in a while

I tested this extensively. Healing breeze doesn't keep your monk alive at all. You'd be better off with a human partner. Honestly it's easy enough to just ursan through blood washes blood. 10:31, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Still Viable?

I can safely say that Against the Charr is no longer possible with a hero bonder in Hard Mode. Healing Breeze does jackshit to keep it alive. The videos posted at the bottom of the article are severely outdated so I don't even know why they are on this page anymore. However this build is still viable in Normal Mode. It takes about 10-ish minutes to complete all the quests in Normal Mode, yeilding 2k reputation points a run. In HM the article says it takes 15 minutes. So, if we look at speedbooking for an hour straight, assuming no breaks, HM yeilds: 60/15 = 4 runs = 12k reputation. NM yields: 60/10 = 6 = 12k points. So if you do this for an hour straight the outcomes for reputation points are the same in NM as they are for HM. Lyssan55 21:42, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

However you can't hand in books for Normal Mode once you're past rank 880.192.156.3 13:20, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
You can keep your hero alive, I can keep my Dunkoro alive, the only problem I have is that I can't get the warrior boss below 50% of his hp, I got his hp down to 1/4hp when I used two more bonders (same builds as the ATFH bonders). Although I died when my SF was interrupted, I've been going at this for about 2hours now (HM), I don't think ATC is a viable option for speedbooking anymore. 12:33, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
Why are u killing the warrior boss? Ressmonkey 17:40, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
Because that's what the guide said to do? 'Pull warrior boss away from necro and sliver until dead. Repeate for Harvest Soulreign. Make sure your maintaining your enchantments.' 23:16, November 16, 2010 (UTC)
you can avoid aggroing the warrior boss and pull the necro boss. i like my method of using a/me better but if sliver armor still works gg.--Relyk talk 07:04, November 17, 2010 (UTC)
It's actually possible to do what someone said above, you flag your heroes through to harvest soulreign, with you being dead, that way the most of the other chars do not spawn, here's a video, and it's still pretty quick(i've only done it properly once) - here's a video of someone doing just that from a few days ago86.145.17.173 18:32, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

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