General Discussion and Effectiveness

Right! That's that sorted. I'm awaiting confirmation that I can use the videos of the builds on YouTube from their owner. I will get round to the other stuff in the meantime. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

thanks for making this! AthrunAthrun SigFeya 17:48, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Keine probleme! --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

What is the process for featuring a build, and how would I go about doing it? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:09, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Emm, what was that random IP doing deleting it? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 17:11, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Probably another guy who thinks this is his build and only he is entitled to use it. Sigh. AthrunAthrun SigFeya 17:16, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I know what it was. It was one of my friends. He went beserk on me last night, giving the alliance the PvX wiki = Nerf, PvX wiki = Noobs steal builds and PvX wiki = Prices going down speeches. Dunno why, he was really supported when I first posted it. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:12, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


I know the Time for Heroes build works but I have no clue why you have 3x Protective Bond. I didn't think maintained enchantments stacked. Devika 17:51, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind I read it up on wiki. Devika 17:52, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Can this be done in NM, HM or both? How much time does it take? And yes, thank you very much for posting builds. :) --ValeV 18:16, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

This is to be done in HM. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 18:21, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Smart idea. Just out of curiosity, are people already running this? I'm wondering how much I could charge :D KJ badge sig 18:41, 1 September 2009
I'm sure I have seen Guru pages ages ago regarding these. I can' remember anything about them though. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 18:43, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
K, then. Still a cool idea. Good thing my sin needs to max all his ranks :D. KJ badge sig 18:51, 1 September 2009
Btw, I would suggest that you expand your equipment section and either delete or put content in your notes section. A lot of people that come here wont know what the equipment is for...and the Notes section is blank. KJ badge sig 19:07, 1 September 2009

3k points? From r0 to r10 you must do 54 runs. THIS IS 54!!! (my points is, that's too much and 3k is not much) Also, i always die at Great Destroyer. Do heroes need to have all those runs? Also, while tracking the nornbear, I activate last shrine, but then we get rezzed at start, because (dead) heroes are still there. :/ --ValeV 19:15, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I think the idea is to run others and earn money. You can't exactly run someone through every single HM EotN mission. KJ badge sig 19:18, 1 September 2009
"The point of this farm is get a large amount of reputation points." from this build article. But, you also get some points during/completing the missions, right?
And, if the 15 minutes is true, that's 13 hours and 30 minutes for all ranks in a title (you get r4/5 from the main missions usually). Not bad, imo, since you can space it apart far and wide. --- VipermagiSig -- (contribs) (talk) 19:25, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

In response to ValeV. Are you sure you're not activating the res shrine? The heroes shouldn't be flagged to the group of Mandragor in front, instead, run a little to the left, and there will be a group there. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 19:35, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Am I doing something wrong, I have completed all quests up to ATHF, yet for some reason, I am bonded and everything, heroes are prfectly runed for pbond. Yet for some reason I cant make it to the great destroyer ? What am I doing wrong ? ViNcE Manly Elite Skill 19:49, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

So you dont have to kill the norn bear spawns? >.>--Relyk 20:42, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Note: you should NOT be using this for either dwarf or norn titles. Both can be done faster by doing norn fast farm/snowmen. This IS faster for asuran than raptors and there's no good farm for ebon. Those two tracks are what speedbooks are for--TahiriVeila 20:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Actually... this is faster than norn fast farm, I complete 1 speedbook in 10 minutes... therefore much faster than norn fast farm.

I have problems killing Nornbear. I use discordway and protection, earth, fire and fighter henchman. I can't kill him. Any tips which h/h use?--ValeV 20:57, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Dont use discordway, he uses gw:Shattered Spirit. use sabway, roj monks, or just about anything else--Relyk 21:00, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
As for doing ATHF ? Any tips ? ViNcE Manly Elite Skill 21:04, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

If you had a team of a monk and sin do this, the monk could run past the jotun in curse of the norn bear bravely while the perma spawns the norn bear, then bring protective bond, soh, and oov so the perma can kill the norn bear. then the sin and monk can individually do the other two. im not sure if a monk can make it past the jotun, but it shouldn't be too hard using spell breaker and running skills. you could run 6 people at a time.--Relyk 21:10, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

I also can't make it to the destroyer. The large amount of packets of damage just overwhelms my regen. What am i doing wrong?--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 23:09, September 1, 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind. You MIGHT want to mention on the page that you need 105 hp.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 23:15, September 1, 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I will try with Sabway. Also please add more informations under specific builds, like that you need 105hp for Great destroyer, add links to youtube, etc. etc. --ValeV

Discordway works fine for me... just have PI on him when he uses Spirit Roar (usually right when he comes back from the Spirit Realm). Also try to interrupt Escape to the Spirit Realm.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 20:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC)


1) ATC: BuH is way better than FH. Do the math FFS, noobs.
2) ATFH: FFSWTFBBQ. What the fuck is this bonder shit? Just use your favorite necroway and MS/DB.

--User:Thc 07:14, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Forreal, AtfH is gonna take forever with this, and i doubt anyone will try it, since Discord/Sabway can wreck it anyways, And ^ Buh is nice, but i brought FN(feigned neutrality) for against the charr, though it wasn't toally needed, I like Finish him, but you're soloing a caster boss, so it's 10e for a deepwound, that won't matter, BUH would dish otu a faster kill.DBreezy 07:18, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
pain inverter+party heals kills great destroyers--Relyk 07:26, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
lol, you right, you rightDBreezy 07:28, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

It takes 20 seconds to kill the Great Destroyer. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 07:47, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

It does with discordway/sabway +PI too, it's nto a hard mission, we're trying to say you dun need to go all out for itDBreezy 07:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
I realize you're trying to help, but you had said further up that TGD would take forever with this, and it doesn't. Videos are up, BTW. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:08, September 2, 2009 (UTC)
Yeh, I was imaginig it would, watched the video, good job. Guess I was wtrong, sorry ^^DBreezy 08:15, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

For ATFH you should have Incoming, maybe Fall Back, and Make Haste on one of the bonders and you really dont need BiP or any sort of energy management past blessed sig. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 18:31, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

I think the point of the bonders is so you can take leechers. And no, you can't tell leechers to help you kill the great destroyer. Most of them are complete idiots. I had a group of leechers that had trouble dying in the beginning of Nornbear.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 18:55, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Video Links

dont work.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 22:17, September 2, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I got that too. I'm not sure what to do about it, maybe I'll just post the URLs there. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 08:09, September 3, 2009 (UTC)


I think that it's ready for testing now. What do you all think? --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 11:40, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

I'll vote 5-5-5.--ValeV 13:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
This is the best/cheapest way to get reputation. Pretty much everyone has a perma/knows somebody with a perma. I have done this alot with my guild this are our times:
  • A Time For Heroes : 20sec-1 min
  • Curse of the Nornbear : 2-3 min
  • Against the Charrs : 1:50-2:30
  • This gives using medium values: 40+150+130= 320 sec => 5,3 min.
  • In one hour that is 60/5.3*3000=33 962 rep points.
  • To get down to these times you have to do it a few times, also travelling and setting up builds does take some time.
  • And yes I too vote for testing, 5-5-5 K0n$3rv 14:34, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
You've got to be bullshitting me. it takes longer to walk from point A to B with essence than it takes with those projected times.-- 14:52, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
Timea aren't too far off if you know what you are doing tbh. Devika 15:05, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
I've been getting 3 for ATC, 5 for nornbear, and <1 for ATFH. I guess i need more practice :(Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 19:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
With Curse of the Norn Bear try doing it in a group with at least 2 permas, it's faster. Against the Charr is good in a group with party wide IMS like Fall Back, Incoming, etc. Devika 22:03, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
If you do it by yourself it takes much longer tho-- 18:18, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Pls Explain

These are 3 misions u need 9 to turn teh bock over and u said ull allrdy have 5 doen how will i have 5 done dotn i need to do tham to pls explain better

Heroes' handbook comes with the 5 main quests already filled out in the book if you have completed them already. And you only need 8 pages to turn it in.--Gl0ry Check out my Dumb PvE Ideas! 19:00, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
16/2 = 8. 5+3=8. Get it?--ValeV 19:58, September 3, 2009 (UTC)
^ i need a runner for mah monk MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 22:21, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Did it today took 1 hour to get 12000 points thank you for making this will rate 5-5-5 maxed out entire norn deldrimor and vanguard title in 1 day asura was allrdy maxed thank u for sharing this with us in the name of the community i thank you

NOW GIVE ME FREE RUNS NAO! MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 01:41, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
do it on ur perma D:--Relyk 02:03, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
Lol, monk perma SF with secondary ele for sliver is win. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:17, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

seriously, all you need is like 2 monks spamming party heals while u keep pi on the great destroyer and interrupt him...--Relyk 02:59, September 4, 2009 (UTC)

U cant run people with that. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 13:02, September 4, 2009 (UTC)
yes you can :< i do it once in awhile when im bored.--Relyk 06:36, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
Explain what you mean in more detail then and how long it takes. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 15:35, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
3 roj monks with divine healing/heaven's delight, one with soh on sin. everyone stands in range of destroyer to get hit, you can make them bring heals. interrupt with ymlad, disrupting dagger, exhausting assault, etc. you can bring echo for pi. critical eye+crit agility keeps energy up. interrupt him until pi kills him. takes about a minute--Relyk 00:07, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
Ok, but its still really fast to use the build on the page and i would bet much safer. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:03, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
Asuran Scan Golden Fox Strike Wild Strike Death Blossom &quot;I Am Unstoppable!&quot; Frigid Armor Critical Agility Shroud of Distress
Offering of Blood Signet of Devotion Blessed Signet Watchful Spirit Essence Bond Protective Bond Strength of Honor Rebirth

That will kill him as long as the bonder doesn't die and you can kill Seekers before they dshot your chain or something. there seems to be a random destroyer of hope that will aggro the bonder easily :/ and take on the destroyer warriors one at a time or you get overwhelmed. 2 monks would make it even easier--Relyk 07:01, September 6, 2009 (UTC)

Isn't the point of killing the great destroyer is to do it as fast as possible? this kinda just does baby steps toward it until there's nothing left to damage you but it.(the above build w/ explanation) Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 13:40, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

against the charr

im havin trouble with seekers. any remedies? i can avoid them getting there, it's when they're right next to the dude that's killin me Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 21:19, September 5, 2009 (UTC)

Use feigned neutrality and don't die?--TahiriVeila 21:42, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
i watched the video and they went a completely different way than i did, so i didn't run into any problems after that. Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 23:57, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
I use stoneflesh aura. Its the best protection but has its disadvantages (energy, cast time). --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:02, September 6, 2009 (UTC)
That made me think of something completely different than GW. ---Chaos- 13:48, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
Lol. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 14:37, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

I just tried ATFH without runes on monks and you can do it in same time. So no need to spend money on runes for them.--ValeV 19:02, September 7, 2009 (UTC)

You need at least minor prot for 3 energy loss from prot bond. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:08, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
monks can deal with the energy pretty easily--Relyk 23:13, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
They shouldnt need to. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:19, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
you don't need runes, use them if you got them, pointless argument really--Relyk 23:26, September 7, 2009 (UTC)
If you have the runes you dont need BiP/BR so u can bring incoming, fall back, and make haste. Since half the mission is running, you can shave about 15% of the time by doing so. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 02:19, September 8, 2009 (UTC)
that's not the build though :/--Relyk 02:03, September 10, 2009 (UTC)
And the build is unchangeable? --- Ressmonkey (talk) 19:35, September 10, 2009 (UTC)

Against the Charr Videos

I was running Against the Charr before this build was released on pvx. I use a slightly different build and run a path the avoids almost all enemy groups. I personally think the way I do it is faster and easier, and I had posted videos on youtube for them. The Nm one shows the run and the boss, while the Hm video only shows the end.

Normal Mode

Hard Mode--Vgfanatic2 01:58, September 10, 2009 (UTC)


people are actually running this at doomlore lol--Relyk 02:32, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Makes sense. I'd pay for it, go afk for an hour, or just put a movie on my other screen. nab some popcorn etc.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 04:00, September 11, 2009 (UTC)
you still have to turn book in ^^ its too bad you cant stack them--Relyk 07:07, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

AFKing will slow it down, after ATC you have to map I think, and the cinematics take a long time...

You could watch a movie on a different screen, but you'd have to be able to see GW, because you'd need to skip cutscenes, switch books to first position et al. --SaberhagenUser Saberhagen Wiki Sig(My Talk) 11:49, September 12, 2009 (UTC)
If only. 30k rep in one run would be so much nicer. Btw, good to see you about the other day.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 15:38, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

ATFH sin

I was too lazy to go out and cap Mobius Strike so I just replaced it with Locust's Fury. I ran 15 daggers, 13 crit, 10 earth and it seemed to go a lot faster. Troah 08:39, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

how do you know it went faster if you didn't have moebius strike ... -- Drah 03:23, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

I never said it DID go faster I said it "seemed" to go faster, and I have a friend that did it and timed each other, I was 7.2 seconds faster then him. :-p Troah 05:16, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


you run this build, you'll always be the first to book your times. ---Chaos- 08:56, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

13:40~ is my best so far. Damn loading screens.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 06:09, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


Ain't that fast?

Not even close to as fast as nornbear. And its only worth your time to do a 4th one if you can do it in 7 and a half minutes, which u cant. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 11:21, September 16, 2009 (UTC)

Another reason to nerf Shadowform, Great job :) 03:21, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

No. Another reason to get GW2 out faster. Titles suck, getting them up fast is good.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 04:17, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

Speak for yourself. I can do GOLEM in 7-8 mins.--Vgfanatic2 21:41, September 17, 2009 (UTC)

And I can do speedbook in 12... --- Ressmonkey (talk) 21:47, September 17, 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather do 3 missions faster than 4 missions slower. and adding 1 more quest doesn't make a big enough difference for me to use more time than it would to just do ATFH+ATC combined.--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"Monk-Paragon-icon 06:07, September 18, 2009 (UTC)


ign:pwnage muffin, gogogo, no1's ever running this anywhere so ye run me nao! MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 22:57, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

ikomono was running it like two days ago. go sit in doomlore--Relyk 23:55, September 18, 2009 (UTC)
Been sitting there all day MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 00:05, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
I've been running this for the past few days all day long. Troah 04:49, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
What's your ign, i would love to have a run MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 17:47, September 19, 2009 (UTC)
Avatar Of Mad King. Troah 22:21, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

I think i lost my P---s

I seem to misplaced it somewhere awwwww and i want to pi-s so badly!

ATFH 105 Sin

Just looking to know.. does the armor have to be lowest AL?.. or can normal max armor do the trick.. ? - Saifon

i'm not 100% on this, but I think because the point is you need 105hp for PB, the armour doesn't matter too much', you can always use the low AL and if not use max if you want (low AL is dirt cheap to make (like 10g and a couple of pieces of cloth per piece)) ~ PheNaxKian talk 15:08, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
no it doesnt--Relyk 02:47, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Only 600's really need to worry about Armor Level. Troah 16:49, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
since ur directly attacking something, AL doesn't matter. Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 19:39, September 24, 2009 (UTC)

Non-105 variant

In the variants section, it says: Give one of your heroes Life Barrier and an other [sic] Life Bond instead of Blood is Power and Purifying Veil. This way you don't need 105HP. Ok, so I get Life Bond for Purifying Veil, but if you sub out Life Barrier for BiP, you'll end up maintaining 5 enchantments. Are you dropping one of the other maintained enchants as well and if so, which one? --Dfscott 02:35, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

drop essence bond--Relyk 02:39, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
ah, ok, thx -- I was worried about my monks running out of energy, so I dropped balth spirit and *I* got tight on energy (not so I couldn't finish, but it was close). --Dfscott 18:08, September 25, 2009 (UTC)

Maintain Balthazar's Spirit on Life Bond Hero for additionnal energy gain/return. Maybe swap skill changes so that Balthazar's Spirit and Life Bond are on same hero. Elephantaliste Noir 19:36, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

I'm theeeeee


hello guild wars playing fat guy MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 21:33, September 30, 2009 (UTC)

Monk with Stonefist gauntlet using shadowsteps?--Relyk 22:38, October 2, 2009 (UTC)


Eeeeek, a bug!!

Ban him. Reason: Fails at spelling, fails at life and fails at himself :D
Ban you. Reason: Fails at editing, indenting, and signing. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:35, October 16, 2009 (UTC)

what am i doing wrong

my heros keeping dieing leading to me dieing while i run atfh in hm what am i doing wrong? this happens when i do it with 105hp and normal hp versions -- 19:12, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Keep them out of lava. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 23:24, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
its not that its when the openants cast 100blades when im killing the great destroy then i die -- 17:29, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
it is the lava just noticed how do i stop them running into it ther all flagged away they just run into it weridly -- 17:39, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
Then something else is going on, I'm used to 2 Hundred Blades at once, just make sure your heros are flagged far enough back and don't have BIP or Blood Ritual disabled.-- 17:43, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
kk ill try again -- 18:20, October 22, 2009 (UTC)
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