Talk: D/A Droknar's Forge Runner

Revision as of 17:34, 6 March 2011

So what do you think? Riff 22:52, 2 March 2008 (EST)

What's about heal?

1 skill for healing, 20 second is too long time for waiting for it IMO.

2 anti-kd.--Fallen (talk) 16:13, 3 March 2008 (EST)

the point is you keep moving therefore needing no heal, and you have two anti KD....Riff 00:07, 4 March 2008 (EST)

Cept you do need a self heal(Giants, its not smart to DC into them when youre already low on health; SS has a long recharge as well.), and 2 anti kd is just silly.--Fallen (talk) 22:39, 5 March 2008 (EST)

Have you actually ran the build? I'm making the video as i speak, SS is the only heal you need and i only us it on the one part in Snake dance. The two anti KD's are needed because it makes it so u can permanantly have an Anti KD without worrying about recasting fleeting after pious ends every 7 seconds...Riff 23:21, 5 March 2008 (EST)

I've used my variation since EOTN came out, yes. My version is in my sandbox. You honeslty dont need fleeting if you can time it correctly. Not trying to be a dick and put down your build, just letting you know.--Fallen (talk) 21:55, 6 March 2008 (EST)

Very common race build, however shares many skills with other builds, we may as well just start a guide to racing. Invincible Rogue 12:42, 7 March 2008 (EST)

Fallen, sorry if it came across like i was gettin at you, my apologies. As for the stat changes, they weren't needed but i see the usefulness in them and now you can just run with a hourglass staff for energy as opposed to a totem and +12 offhand. Riff 15:51, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I always run this with 12 shadow and feigned instead of shadow sancutary. DC takes care of healing 95% of the time; I normally go from beacons to droks without needing to hit feigned! I will say that this is an build for experienced runners, but it is THE FASTEST build out there (almost the fastest, the fastest switches out fleeting for--well, let's just leave it at that, lol). Conclusion: Double shadow steps = pwnage. this build = you NEVER stop if you're running it right. G'luck. And Racing FTW Foolsauce 08:21, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Seriously, I not agreed bout the build that has been post there, but foolsauce, Im agreed with feigned FTW.We should race again. Tyrands

Grammar

Made some grammar adjustments :D Sun 17:36, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Counters?. . .

You state that Cripple is a counter. Uhh, but we have I am unstoppable. Lol, cripple aint no counter on the droks run! I'm adding a note after that. lol. Foolsauce 08:25, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

I listed that as a counter incase IAU isn't upRiff 20:09, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Usage

The usage would pretty much be better just as: 1. The run sequence is dash--> pious -->dash once it's recharged. 2. Your anti kd skills are "I am unstoppable!" and fleeting stability. Only "IAU" is needed in the first zone, but make sure to use fleeting when needed in dread and snakes. 3. Use VoS to stop slow hexes from golems, ice imps and, if necessary, heretics. 4. Your shadow steps are there to make you fast. Use them whenever recharged. Foolsauce 08:34, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

feel free to change itRiff 20:09, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

The Usage section says "When Pious Haste is about to end, cast VOS then Dash" but if you cast VOS as PH is about to end it will end VOS too. Not having tried this build I do not want to edit the page as I am not sure if something strange (other than the assumed) is meant here. --Heurist 15:09, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

"When Pious Haste is about to end, cast VOS then Dash" PH lasts 11 seconds, VOS last 10 seconds. you should make sure that you only use PH during/right before VOS. I recommend during instead of before unless you use the keyboard to use skills (1/4 second cast for VOS, use the other 3/4 to cast PH really quick or VOS will end a little earlier) (68.47.4.209 09:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT))

You could also use dwarven stability with dwarven stability with drunken master (for 33% for 180 sec on max ranks). Intoxication rank 1 also counts as drunk for norn/deldimor titels. You don't need to be rank 3-5 drunk when activating those skills to gain max benefit (axample you already get prevent knockdown from Dwarven stability when you drinked a normal beer and are intoxicated rank 1 :P). So running is cheap and easy with that, cause normal bears or poppers are cheap(added by robertjanvaneijk1988 (05 april 2008)).

While that would work, the Dash/Pious Haste combo is faster by a longshot. However if you wanted to combine dwarven stability with dash(maxed title of course) heheRiff 16:07, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

Attribute Spread

Why is the main build using 8 in earth Prayers while it got no earthprayer skills?--√iktor(contribs) 21:58, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Because it used to have fleeting stability and the deadly arts is because it used to have Dark Prison. Justing6 22:06, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Unused attribute points?

There are several unused, I filled in. Justing6 19:35, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

What you need to Know

Dont argue with me because i've run this build a few times already.

Healing = what? You dont need another heal besides Shadow Sanctuary, just keep going it works out
2 anti Kd's = again, what? people were complaining about not being knocked down, 2 anti kds is perfect, and you dont have to follow the build exactly :-O
You can make the whole run without ever slowing below 25% increased speed (not counting stopping to cast VOS)
only complaints = "Snake Dance, The hardest longest part..." WHAT?????????? thats the easy part roflol the hard part is the path leading through all the avicara & Wurms on the first Zone. Back in the old Days on my Warrior making this run was difficult just because of the beginning, sometimes I would get through with barely any health depending on the spawn (only proph skills back then). You give advice on how to make the last troll cave, why would you take the hard longer way to droks, just keep straight its much easier.
The Instructions give a good idea of what to do but you really need to play around with it and do a couple test runs to figure it out yourself and change out a couple skills if you want even. Don't swap for Feigned Neutrality tho, SS is all you will need~ Recommended weap is not necessary but i do recommend the insignias

I've been running Droks since before the game was 8 months old and by far this is my favorite build. Use it, Live it, Love it.

(68.47.4.209 09:33, 23 March 2008 (EDT))

I was speaking about the trolls in Lonars Pass not talus chute. Riff 13:43, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Maybe instead of hanging you super-DE-duper superiority over the heads of those struggling, maybe you could provide better insight than "lolwut this is easy, your al nubs, go uninstall". If you want to display you, apparently 3-4 year veteran knowledge, stop being a tool and pride actual information (as your list above actually provides none). 141.165.170.162 23:01, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Reverting

I have reverted this page since Harrier's Haste can not replace Pious Haste with 0 Wind Prayers that would give a total of 11 seconds of speed boost (out of 20) and violate the "always moving fast" aspect of the build. The entire Usage section was also removed, I have put that back too. --Heurist 18:58, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

The Reverts

That is the fourth time that this has tried to be wiped, its pissing me off. I do understand that people are mad i posted this in the first place, but they need to pull their heads out of there asses and let other players know builds. So what if A-Net nerfs this? There is always another build, thats why were innovative, we keep creating new ways to fuck with them, stop deleting the page people.Riff 03:54, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Stack

I have a question about Sentry's insignia. If you use them on 4 armor pieces except chest (for +15 health), do they stack and will work like +40 (4x+10) which halves all incomming dmg except armor ignoring damage (http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_of_Balthazar)?robertjan 04:02, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

yeah that would stack i think, but the problem is you would have shit energy unless you were carrying a caster offhand. Riff

Armor is calculated per piece, not total, so no. –Ichigo724

00:39, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Alternative

What is an alternative to "I am Unstoppable!", because I am unable to attain it.- Vanguard 21:35, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Use Dwarven Stability in place of both "I am Unstoppable!" AND Fleeting Stability or use just Fleeting Stability with Dark Escape replacing "I am Unstoppable!" Before "I am Unstoppable!" was around DE was used so it's certainly viable. Shinomori 22:18, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

I think he doesnt have eotn, in which you would use Fleeting Stability--Relyk 07:58, 17 February 2009 (EST)

Attributes

I have been using this build for almost a year and I want to propose a different attribute setup: 12 Mysticism (11 + 1 from a Mysticism Hood); 10 Earth Prayers; 9 Shadow and 4 Deadly. 12 is the break point for Mysticism to return 4 energy and taking away the minor mysticism allows for the use of a Vigor, Attunement, or Vitae rune. This setup just works better for me for both racing and general running. Shinomori 22:21, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Nevermind, make that 11+1 Mysticism, 10 Earth and 10 Shadow. The Dark Prison trick doesn't work anymore because of the step nerf. Shinomori 15:58, 1 January 2009 (EST)

Yes it does. lol. I can do it with Death's Charge. ^_^ Invincible Rogue

16:01, 1 January 2009 (EST)

It doesn't work as often. I hate dervs. That had no relevance but I really really really don't like them. lol

11:56, 15 January 2009

Don't Trip edit

Keep it Fleeting Stability please. With IAU and Fleeting you have a guaranteed way of preventing knockdowns 100% of the time. IAU and DT are not enough for this. This build shouldn't be kept to racing standards but to standards of effectiveness. 71.255.231.184 03:00, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

With running, effectiveness = speed, and being un-KD-able for 25/30s pretty much outweighs having to stop for 1.75s to recast -- Star talk 04:29, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Wrong. Effectiveness does not equal speed. While speed is desirable a build with Echo, Dash and Dwarven Stability would be far from effective. You must find a balance between speed and survivability. Don't Trip doesn't hamper the survivability of the build but it does not always guarantee safety. The 25/30 you speak of is also only obtained by maxing both title tracks. I would say add Don't Trip to the variants for people that have maxed titles but keep Fleeting for those that would not want to spend time maxing two title tracks for one build. 66.250.190.124 14:55, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Actally, echo + dash + DS would not be very fast because of all the recasting and such -- Star talk 14:59, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Stick with the argument. If you want another example of a speed build that would sacrifice safety for speed, change VoS on this build to an elite shadow step such as Shadow Prison or Wastrel's Collapse. Get my point? Speed does not always equal effectiveness. There is a delicate balance point.

19:41, 14 April 2009

No, VoS is definetely the fastest because it means you bypass the slowing hexes which contribute massively to slowness. Survivability is just a side bonus. -- Star talk 04:22, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

That depends entirely on where you're running. Back to the issue. Yes shouts activate faster but Fleeting provides more survivability. And as I see it, making the run without dying is a lot faster than having to re-run an entire zone. DT and IAU work best together if both of those titles are maxed. Which is why I said it should be a variant for those that have the time/motivation to max out said titles. Keep Fleeting on the mainbar with DT as a variant. 66.250.190.112 13:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I run with IAU/DT on r1, ranks don't matter at all. Fleeting is strippable and can require recasting in locations where you don't want to stop. Just adapt to running with shouts. ---Ch aos- 10:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Or you can just learn the run well enough to know where to stop and cast a more reliable anti-KD. VoS prevents stripping. 66.250.190.115 14:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

lolslow ---Ch aos- 17:21, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

lolitgetsthejobdone. Don't get me wrong I can give anyone a run for their money.

02:50, 17 April 2009

Honestly i dont see the big deal, i run dt/iau with r3 without a problem, once you master the timing in snakes dt and iau is a significantly faster and more reliable combo. It adds 30 sec overall which can drop your time easily under 10 minutes 13:31 April 18

I note that although yes, you can't have anti-knockdown 100% of the time w/ iau/dt, fleeting is a SPELL, and VoS prevents the use of spells, therefore requiring you to cancel VoS, cast fleeting, then recast VoS, unless there is some way around that that i'm missing. Therefore IAU/DT is faster and more efficient. Also, you don't NEED anti-knockdown 100% of the time! you're not always facing knockdown, although in some places you are facing it more than in others. Once you know the route, you can judge when to use the anti-knockdown and when to refrain. Also, fleeting is in earth prayers, and so to make it better, you'd have to take away from the points in the other attributes, and so lowering the general efficiency of the build. That's my judgement. Keep DT on the main bar.

Theorycraft less =/ you cast fleeting before VoS ---Ch aos- 09:48, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Fleeting = Newbies. DT = Hardened Veterans.

I have been running Dervish for a while...and you may know me...my character is called "God of Fissures". I run Droks with Don't Trip and IAU as my Anti-KD and SS as my only heal (besides DC but thats besides the point).

I can CONSISTENTLY run Lornars in 3 minutes 50 seconds...give or take 10-15 seconds based on the spawns presented to me.

With my experience on the table, I can say without a doubt that anyone who says Fleeting Stability is better than Don't Trip for running droks is a very inexperienced runner.

But the following is true:

ONLY USE FLEETING IF YOU ARE JUST STARTING OUT! Once you become good...then use DT.

It took me one hard month of training to take off my Fleeting training wheels and put on the DT bad boys.

If you want training on running Droks with the Dervish, add my character "God of Fissures"...and I will be more than happy to practice with you and give you useful tips.

AND A WORD TO THE WISE

Everyone (even the best runners) will die once in a while. Don't beat yourself down if you die, it is part of learning.

- God of Fissures

I be too self-critic. Thank god I haven't ran for ages. Should get skills for my derv =/ Rammos are cute but slow ---Ch aos- 21:49, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Bet you five bucks a person that has never used fleeting will die after having used DT all the time. You have to know the spawns better and know key places to cast fleeting. Oh and you also have to be decent at balancing your Pious/Dash usage because - obviously - Pious strips enchantments. In other words, running with this build pre-EotN took a lot more skill than it does now. 71.255.237.18 02:33, October 31, 2009 (UTC)

A Question about the Equipment

I feel like an newb asking this, but what does -5/20 or -5/stance stand for? I found an article on another site that shows all inscriptions... the closest matches for a shield inscription of these general values were Luck of the Draw (recieved physical damage -5 20%) and Run for Your Life (recieved physical damage -2 while in stance). Is this a shield handle or an inscription, and what does it stand for?

You got them right. -5/20 is the Luck of the Draw inscription, and -5/stance is the Run for Your Life inscription. Toraen talk 03:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

There is no -5/stance, the max for it is -2. I'll fix. ---Ch aos- 11:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

WHOA I actually got something RIGHT for a change! Thank you. (original poster of question)

If it makes you slit your wrists any more furiously tonight, it's not -5/stance, it's -2/stance ---Ch aos- 16:53, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

SF

>VoS? Masmar 19:05, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

VoS is faster. --Chaos? -- 19:54, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Not really, SF with DP will have the same cast time, and last longer. Would be harder to use with pious haste though.

Masmar 20:04, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

VoS casts in 1/4s. --Chaos? -- 20:05, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Deadly Paradox -> Shadow Form = cast time of .33sec, VoS = .25secCloudSefiroth 22:36, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Running in Other Locations

Can this build run pretty much everywhere? Can you do EotN tour for example. It'd be nice to have a list of tested areas or a variants section for how to deal with specific locations that are frequently run, like the Rata Sum run. --Chem Vv 22:07, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

yes--Relyk _talk 23:16, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

That'd be a massive subpage. Most runners are self-sufficient anyways, I think (make their own builds and figure out things themselves). --DANDY ^_^ -- 05:30, June 14, 2010 (UTC)

Nerf to Pious Haste

The build is screwed now. --69.125.163.138 21:27, February 19, 2011 (UTC)

hope you were trolling. cuz i just loled. derv running is better than ever now. Demonic Sin Ex 00:42, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

but it's not? pious haste is still synergistic with spells like fleeting stability and combine dash, you'll be running the run faster alternating from 50% 3 seconds, 50% for 5-6 seconds, 50% for 3 seconds again, and then sitting on 25% for 4-5 seconds waiting for the pious haste to recharge, then dash, then wait, then go on and on. It ends up being that last segment repeating for the entire run going

dash, fleeting stability, pious haste

3s 50%, 4s 25%, 5s 50% = ~42% speed buff throughout the run

compared to what would've been(only dash + pious haste)

3s 50%, 9s 33% = ~37.5% speed buff throughout the run

so yea from a speed standpoint the d/a build has actually been buffed, but at the same time it's been buffed less then 5% more so the increase seems negligible. Energy management goes out the window. Some of that extra speed you're generating is wasted and ends up needing some regen time, and you've lost the practicality of the build having to focus on three different spells constantly rotating in and out. just increases your ability to make mistakes and distracts from actually running.

I was wondering why I was seeing so many dumb runner builds with no energy management and this update looks like it's the reason why.76.185.73.123 04:39, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

i repeat. i hope you were trolling. now let me make my statements about derv running more clear.Derv running is the FASTEST, MOST EFFECTIVE, and does NOT use more energy (in fact it uses LESS energy if you are good) compared to other running builds out there. if you cant see why this is, dont make bad, nub-like statements like you did above because it shows you definately know nothing about running. Demonic Sin Ex 01:44, March 4, 2011 (UTC)

I posted the second statement, but the first guy is someone else. What the hell is with all the elitism with running anyways? you just go from point a to b.

It would help if you gave some of your reasoning as to how pious haste is stronger then it was before.

Now it's more troublesome to emulate the same build and you get a negligible speed buff of 5%. Maybe you've scanned through all the dervish skills and see a better combination, but as it stands pious haste has just been nerfed, effectively killing the main speed buff in the d/a skillset. When I'm commenting on energy management, I assume you want the speed buff throughout the run. If at anytime you stop upkeeping speedbuff, then you're really wrong(the build has been nerfed to hell), becuase the average speed drops off really fast. In the previous build, net energy regeneration just outweighed speed buff energy costs. I'm also not comparing d/a run build to other shitty indie run builds, I'm comparing past and present d/a builds, so maybe that's where the mis-communication is.76.185.73.123 04:39, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

there was no miscommunication lol. i was saying that the current dervish running build is superior to all other running builds, even before the pious BUFF. thats right, pious has been buffed. HINT: it has something to do with perma 50% speed boost. Demonic Sin Ex 17:34, March 6, 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 181: / Line 181: @@
 ::::It would help if you gave some of your reasoning as to how pious haste is stronger then it was before.
 ::::Now it's more troublesome to emulate the same build and you get a negligible speed buff of 5%.  Maybe you've scanned through all the dervish skills and see a better combination, but as it stands pious haste has just been nerfed, effectively killing the main speed buff in the d/a skillset.  When I'm commenting on energy management, I assume you want the speed buff throughout the run.  If at anytime you stop upkeeping speedbuff, then you're really wrong(the build has been nerfed to hell), becuase the average speed drops off really fast.  In the previous build, net energy regeneration just outweighed speed buff energy costs.  I'm also not comparing d/a run build to other shitty indie run builds, I'm comparing past and present d/a builds, so maybe that's where the mis-communication is.[[Special:Contributions/76.185.73.123|76.185.73.123]] 04:39, March 6, 2011 (UTC)
+:::::there was no miscommunication lol.  i was saying that the current dervish running build is superior to all other running builds, even before the pious BUFF. thats right, pious has been buffed.  HINT: it has something to do with perma 50% speed boost. [[User:Demonic Sin Ex|Demonic Sin Ex]] 17:34, March 6, 2011 (UTC)