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Sooooooo much better than HB on a Monk Hero, tbh. ــмıкεнaшк 17:40, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Unless HB doesn't apply to heroes, HB is cheaper and has more benefits. And you can just bring Heal Party on HB for a "WHAT THE FUCK THE PARTY JUST REDBARRED" heal. --GoD Hammer and Sickle Guild of Deals 17:41, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
Heroes are quite dumb with Heal Party, and Divine Healing+Heaven's Delight+UA (on recharge) heals for more than Heal Party+GoLE+HB (if you only use HP with GoLE, which you should if you don't want to kill your energy). The only way Heal Party is even affordable for a Monk Hero is if you use GoLE, but that restricts you to an Ele secondary, and means that you lose out on a lot of energy management through the Inspiration Magic line. If UA didn't affect both Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight, I'd say fuck it, but because it does, Unyielding Aura is safer on, more efficient and better used by Heroes than Healer's Boon. Both the loss of half-casting and a pip of energy are also compensated for with the interrupts and not using Heal Party, a two second cast. HB would obviously be best for a player Monk, but this is a better alternative for Heroes. ــмıкεнaшк 18:02, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Waste Not, Want Not > Power Drain imo --Ravensky 23:12, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Power Drain provides the most energy out of the Inspiration Magic skills and the fact that it interrupts is a bonus, tbh. For energy management with the current attributes, it goes: Power Drain > Waste Not, Want Not (which loses you the utility of interrupting/removing enchantments, and has to be cast quite often) > Drain Enchantment > Leech Signet, but you can basically take any two of those four, but I've always liked the interrupts. I'll add WN,WN to the variants, though. ــмıкεнaшк 07:14, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
WNWN is actually pretty bad since mobs autoattack when not using skills. The only time WNWN is ever useful is at the start of battle(which you should have full energy, anyway) and when mobs are kiting out of DoTAoE or chasing after someone.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 08:33, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
I run UA Hero monks with Power Drain and WNWN and they do fine. WNWN is great on Heroes since they actually use it correctly (and all the time) and very rarely fail to meet the requirements. --Mahsa 08:50, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
I hardly do see my heroes use WNWN, if any at all.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 09:15, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
The have a mini skill bar you can look at while you play ;) And they do use it pretty well actually--ShadowRelyk Sig 10:56, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
Exactly. I don't see them using it properly while I was going on about vanquishing. A wasted slot tbh.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 05:25, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

I works very well in NM i tested in HM and it is a bit less efficent but still works...the istant ress is awesom gasp10 08:40, 16 November 2008 (EST)

15 Healing Prayers becuase? Spaggage 06:23, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Because you can. Brandnew. 06:29, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
^ and because you're running full Survivor, two Fortitude mods, a couple Runes of Vitae, and it's PvE. The Hero's Health will still be a about 600, depending on the Vigor Rune (595 with Minor, 606 health with Major, and I'm not going to spend 15-18k on a Superior for a Hero XD ).
Also, Waste Not, Want Not serves as good energy management because Heroes can catch foes during aftercast, but I like having interrupts, and Power Drain+Leech Signet are still the standard choices for Energy management through the Inspiration Magic line. ــмıкεнaшк 07:56, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
Running lower health than others means you'll be targeted more often, which is a much bigger problem on a hero than a real player, and not something I want to happen to the people healing my team. Racthoh 01:14, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
It's just a Major Rune; you've still got 600 health. >.> ــмıкεнaшк 09:15, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

isn't that the pvp description of unyielding aura? theres 2 different ones Aliblaster 06:44, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

It is. We get our skills from another source, and that one hasn't been updated in a while. Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 06:54, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

The math over 60 seconds: WNWN 10 energy * 4 uses = 40 energy, PD 13 energy over 3 uses = 39 energy + 3 interrupts, this is in the perfect conditions mind you. Although I say screw the signet and give them WNWN and PD.----ﮎHædõ๘یíɳShadowsin sig 12:04, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

terrible....

This has no prots. Let the HB monk heal and the UA prot, not the UA heal and the HB prot. Pure healing bars are bad, even with heroes.152.226.7.213 22:28, 19 October 2008 (EDT)

^HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What is the most common build seen for monks now adays? HB Heal Party Builds with only heals. Also, heros run Heal Party terribly and run this very well. Not to mention that it usurps hero's ability to use godly interrupts.--IkimonoI'm Sober. What's your excuse?Paragon-icon-small 23:30, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
^ups -1, I see many of them bringing prot spirit. I bring prot spirit too.152.226.7.213 23:32, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
To add on, many of those HB monks you speak bring healing seed/seed of life, which are pretty much considered to be prots.152.226.7.213 23:35, 19 October 2008 (EDT)
ok to put some common sense back into your mind, if a UA is prot it has next nothing to gain from the elite other than a insta res. UA is also for the heal bonus and this build uses "heal party" type skill(s) that is under same attribute line as UA (divine favor) which heros use better than the more costy and slower real thing heal party. 75.105.247.71 04:22, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
No, you. Pure healer bars are bad, unless you have some other source of protection like imbagons, which don't happen everyday. No one asked you to play full prot bars, I asked the author of the build to put in a few prots like prot spirit.(Yes, I am the IP who posted all those comments while at school)You don't need to add so many points for a decent prot spirit. Even 6-8 points would suffice. Micromanage prot spirit on the tanker and you will find that it is a miracle against many bosses during vanquish runs.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 08:05, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Put Protective Spirit and Aegis on an MM or something. Heroes aren't the greatest with Prots, and full Healing bars are meant to be run alongside other characters that bring prot. Seeing as this is a more-efficient Healer than an HB Monk Hero, you won't see the need for Prot as much. Single-target Prot is overrated in PvE because Monsters don't sync spikes, and Protective Spirit is so easy to fit on another Hero's bar seeing as you won't need more than 9 seconds of it, which is basically your leftover attribute points. I usually play an Imbagon, so this would be the perfect Monk Hero for me. ــмıкεнaшк 07:18, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
So basically if you aren't a monk you have to play pure healer bars on your heroes? Good logic, really. As you have already mentioned, you don't need more than 9 points in prot for prot spirit. Let the UA monk bring prot spirit because it has more than enough e management with leech/WNWN(which I seriously think is bad)/pdrain. If you can run out of energy with the improved prot spirit ai, get better attackers.FYI Not everyone plays imbagons, in fact I hardly see any imbagons around, and it is quite defeating the point of getting an imbagon just to complement pure healer bars.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 08:00, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
Imba reporting for duty. I have 9 people in my guild who play Imbas not including myself.--IkimonoI'm Sober. What's your excuse?Paragon-icon-small 18:25, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Oh, so you and your guildies don't have other characters with different classes?152.226.7.213 01:49, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
Personally I just use healing henchmen and if not then I'm usually bringing two hybrids. I don't have positive experience with hb heroes and UA may actually be good since it's also the quickest ress. I do however agree that this bar could use some prots. Also, my experience is that they don't spend so much energy and therefore the whole inspiration part can be shrinked. If you really want to bring inspiration I'd say bring 11 10 8 6 or sumthin. You won't miss much healing and a prot spirit, aegis or whatever is always a good skill to add. On the other hand, those are skills I often bring on my MM, SS or whatever caster(s) I bring with me. Shai Meliamne 09:41, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
That's the point; instead of splitting your Monks attributes, you just put prot on someone else. If you really wanted a prot hybrid on your Monk, run Build:Mo/E_Zealous_PvE_Healer or Build:Mo/E_Unyielding_Aura_Monk, or you could just take an N/Rt. This build assumes you've got some off-protection in your team, which is quite reasonable. ــмıкεнaшк 15:46, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
It's not good to assume everything. Following your logic I can rate any build as good if I assume some other member of the party can cover what the build lacks, which the build should have been capable of. Also, dropping one point of healing to put some points in protection isn't going to kill you. If splitting attributes was so bad all hybrid heal/prot monks should have been trashed by now. Those are the flaws in your argument. You should only generally assume the players using the build(s) are good, not randomly assume skills are not needed because of very specific circumstances(other than farming and specific dungeon teambuilds).

Back to the point, UA monks NEED the prots because prots are their fastest form of preventing people from dying. HB monks can fall back on their faster casting to prevent people from dying due to ridiculous 200 damage mind blasts; UA monks have what? Patient spirit? Universality is decided on how a build reacts to circumstances differing of what it was created for. Putting prot spirit with 6 points in prot will basically solve the problem of random domage by hard mode mobs. Trust me, mobs don't attack different people all of the time. They DO occasionally attack the same person, and without something like a fast spell you aren't going to heal back the damage done in time with just heals and UA.152.226.7.213 01:49, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

I'll add Protective Spirit and Shield of Absorption to the Variants, but there really isn't any room on the bar. Also, that halved casting on the HB Monk isn't going to make that much of a difference in PvE; it's not like Dwayna's Kiss is a 2 second cast. >.> Also, most hybrids still only split their attributes 3 ways because they don't put into Inspiration Magic. ــмıкεнaшк 07:21, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
You are so terribly wrong. HM is designed so badly that everything does from 1.5x to 3x more damage. The moment you get aoe whammed, you need either prots or spammable heals(while dual delights are in recharge) if not your party will wipe before you say hi. 1/2 a second difference between casting each skill means about double the potential maximum healing you can do.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 09:25, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
Double the Healing? Dwayna's Kiss still has a 3 second recharge, and it's the only skill that really benefits from the halved casting time, so the difference in Healing over time (with just Dwayna's Kiss) is approximately 1.1% (because 4/3.5=1.1), but zomg, Unyielding Aura also increases your Healing by ~1% with 12 Divine Favor, and A LOT more because you're using Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight. If you're team is getting hit with AoE, this build will perform much more efficiently than an HB Monk with Heal Party because its party heals are cheap and more spammable (considering Heal Party without GoLE will drain most of your energy). Yes, Prot and/or anti-melee are necessary in HM, but this is only one of eight Team Members. ــмıкεнaшк 07:20, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
So heros can use this build with no troubles whatsoever? I dont have to manually control UA? MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 11:27, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
iirc, you don't have to micro anything. I'm not sure how smart they'll be with UA when the dead party member is outside of Earshot, but that shouldn't really be a problem. ــмıкεнaшк 15:34, 21 October 2008 (EDT)

Fuck HB

If you get an UA healer, don't take an HB with you. How does that sound? Really, how dumb can you be. --Many srs beans Srs Beans R Srs 09:33, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

Any suggestions then?PikaFanLightningbolt sig 09:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
obviously take echo menderCloseCloseImpactSWImpactToo Muh Bruh 13:01, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
UA Healer + RC Prot = awesome. Or if you're brave, take a Blessed Light Smite. --Many srs beans Srs Beans R Srs 13:20, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
Pray tell where are you gonna use RC in PvE.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 00:10, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Ever done Shards of Orr? Omfg. Condi overkill there. RC monks rape there. Two RCs and a UA smiter, gogogo. Mr. Big 19px 00:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Also EotN for those Mandragor packs. --71.229.253.172 00:32, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
71! /wave Mr. Big 19px 01:36, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
In other words, only specific areas where things like DC+MT will do fine enough.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 02:07, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Also, you are pretty bad if you need 3 monks for shards.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 02:08, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
8 Monks imo. --Many srs beans Srs Beans R Srs 09:10, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
That's totally different tbh.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 09:35, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Different than what? There was no median about SoO teams in this conversation, really. --Many srs beans Srs Beans R Srs 09:36, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
Monks as in healing/protting. Not monks as in 75% focused on damage.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 09:37, 23 October 2008 (EDT)


Signet of Judgment Smiter's Boon Smite Condition Smite Hex Reversal of Damage Signet of Devotion Optional Optional
Something like that is the SoJ build you'd use for SoO, and load some prots on there (SB, PS, SoA...). 75% focused on damage? --Many srs beans Srs Beans R Srs 14:26, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
I've done SoO with a AoM derv and a ER Prot and a RC. You make it sound like Pve is generalized to play specifically how you are with skill. It's Eye of the fucking north. Imbalanced as fuck and Anets idea of balancing it is giving you imbalanced Pve skills. Mr. Big 19px 17:12, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
It's still 75% focused on damage, you don't focus on healing; you focus on damage. If it isn't 75% focused on damage, it is never going to drop anything in PvE, much less with mobs in PvE with more than one healer. Edit:You are really bad if you think you can kill with just SoJ. But that's besides the point AND the topic, which should be focused on the build.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 06:09, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
Coordinated SoJ spike MuffinPWNAGEMUFFIN crabs 11:22, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
You can't kill anything in HM PvE with SoJ spikes. Unless they are weak against holy or something.PikaFanLightningbolt sig 12:19, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

not sure if it relates to this page, the the skill description of UA is the pvp version...

It's GWshack. - McTai Tai Recharge 08:41, 16 November 2008

i like it more than HB on my monk heros :D NoobPwner 16:56, 28 November 2008 (EST)

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