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::::So I'm bad thx, but why the fk would you use a staff when a 20%spear works just as well. Stuff happens and you might be quarterknocked while you were just casting virgorous at full health making you unable to change to your shield set. And stop trolling ffs im just having a serious conversation. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. [[User:Ocirne23|Ocirne23]] 16:48, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::So I'm bad thx, but why the fk would you use a staff when a 20%spear works just as well. Stuff happens and you might be quarterknocked while you were just casting virgorous at full health making you unable to change to your shield set. And stop trolling ffs im just having a serious conversation. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. [[User:Ocirne23|Ocirne23]] 16:48, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::::+5 armor [[User:Novii|<font color="Lime"><span style="font-family:Papyrus;">'''«No'''</span></font>]][[User_talk:Novii|<font color="Black"><span style="font-family:Papyrus;">'''Ѵit..«'''</span></font>]] 16:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Revision as of 16:51, 19 May 2010

A very simple RA WoH Monk. Includes all viable variants (that I could think of). Any necessary changes can and should be freely made. Suggestions welcome. --Readem 20:58, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, hopefully this will shut everyone up. Nice write up. --Frosty Frostcharge 21:52, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, despite that usually imo pure redbar is better, alot of it is personal preferance and we defo need a hybrid on site.. --Steamy..x 21:54, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Uh...shouldn't it be 7+1 prot and 8+1 divine for 5 secs guardian?--Kazurin 22:41, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Weakness. «NoѴit..« 22:43, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
Hm..yea, but that would also knock off your q8 shield :S--Kazurin 22:46, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
That is why you use q7 shields. «NoѴit..« 22:48, May 16, 2010 (UTC)
Loosing 1 divine favor is worth it. You can't really get 9 tactics without saccing too many atts. --Frosty Frostcharge 22:49, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

needs an ab variant «NoѴit..« 23:06, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe just make an AB WoH bar. --Frosty Frostcharge 23:15, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Now

I think it is fine now. No complaints. Still a kind of hybrid though a bit different. I still won't use dolyak, but use balanced stance, since I prefer it. A well, good job now. Shadow Form Slayer 13:40, May 17, 2010 (UTC)

Wait, what

Why was the other page deleted? And why do we have some have-assed build here now? The entire point of giving the RA Pure Heal its own page was so that there was a complete build all set up for people who come to this site specifically looking for an RA Monk bar. Who messed this all up? God damn, this site totally fails. WTF. Zuranthium 00:24, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Nice to see it took you this long to realise Zurrie. --Frosty Frostcharge 00:31, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Sorry I don't come here every single day. I like to actually play the game and beat top 20 guilds (notice me destroying [pleb] and [||||], currently on obs mode) rather than come here and try to talk sense into idiots. Ya'll totally screwed this up, though. Stop ruining my build pages. My AIM contact info is listed. Once again, the entire point of the page I created was so that we could have a complete, superior RA Monk bar. What's the point in even having PvX if we aren't providing builds for the community to be able to look up and quickly load? You should have kept the WoH Arena Monk page to have a general overview page and left my Mo/W Pure Heal page alone. Now I have to re-write it all. Zuranthium 00:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
how does winning with quad ele split make you viable to have whatever builds you want vetted...? and youre acting like none of us have ever beat top 20 guilds before. Gringo 01:01, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Few and far in-between, no doubt. Don't knock the build either, it's hardly an auto-win...notice [LaG] losing with it (plus we only even played that for 1 round? LOL?). Also, I'm pretty sure I have more glad/champ points than all of you (100% legit too, none of that retarded syncing/farming crap that is commonplace now). Regardless, these things aside, when a build has been vetted into the GREAT section within 1 day of being created, and any knowledgeable player of the format agrees it is one of the best builds available, why on earth would the page be DELETED before even reaching a consensus? Now we have this shit page. Zuranthium 01:23, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
i like how you take any chance to reference a good guild or how you just played a match in obs. go stroke your ego somewhere else. --Angelus 01:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not stroking my ego, it's called credentials. I know what I'm talking about and fools undermining my attempts to improve this website really piss me off. I don't even care if you use MY exact RA Monk bar - just get a freaking complete bar on the main page! I'm editing right now, with a list of variants that should be suitable. Zuranthium 01:47, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
i could really give a shit less about the build on the main page. i could really give a shit less about RA in general. i just find it funny that you take every chance you can to tell everyone how high ranked gvg you play. --Angelus 02:49, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
That's hardly what I do. I was simply responding to the person who said "took you long enough to see we made a new page", as if it's some kind of knock against me or my GW ability/knowledge that I don't come to this site every day. Trolling around PvX all day long doesn't make you a better player. It might actually make you a worse player. Zuranthium 03:26, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Massive epic failure. Frosty was amazed that it took you this long to realize that pvx totally fails, not whatever bullshit went through your head when you read it. Life Guardian 03:30, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Massive epic fail on his part if he thought I didn't already know that. Zuranthium 03:37, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
So then you QQ all over the place and change the build? It was FINE before, the open ended build was put up here for a reason 128.208.115.71 05:04, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
The open ended build was put here for a BAD reason. Most people agree that a pure healing WoH bar is the most effective Monk for RA. A complete bar should be listed to reflect that; this is the reason people come to the site after all. There is a variant section to take care of different skill selections for the bar that are viable. Zuranthium 05:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
He has a point though, perhaps listing as mini bars a version with guardian, and the pure heal build, to aid in the cookie cutting. With a bunch of blanks, it COULD be argued, that it is hard to see how to fully set up a successful build, by putting 2-3 sample minibars, that problem could be avoided. Kind of like the Dual Monk Backline team builds for HA/GvG. 128.208.115.71 01:36, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

i beat IWAY once with a straight up byob with pets.....just saying --Angelus 01:09, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

and when i was r0 g0 i beat amazing strength at vod, when they were r19. so s vett my build because of that!! Gringo 01:12, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Fail discussion moved to separate section of page. Zuranthium 01:23, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
You've been off wiki far too long Zur--Relyk talk 01:24, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

O, I guess we're not done with the drama?--TahiriVeila 05:16, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't call it drama, just ineptitude really. Zuranthium 05:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Those two words are synonymous on pvx--TahiriVeila 06:12, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Zuranthium + RA builds is always hilarious. Tell us how bad we all are Zuranthium! Misery 06:15, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Well here's the first hint to being less terrible - having 8 skills on your bar usually works a lot better than only having 5. :D Zuranthium 07:43, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Yay build is medioce again... changing vote... Ocirne23 08:19, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
"Just redbarring does not cut it in RA. When that SW sin is chasing your 480 hp ele on your team, it is more efficient and safer to prot then to try and heal the thousands of points of damage." - Wrong. A properly timed WoH will heal for 250. Guardian will not prevent that much damage if the Sin has a brain and if you spec Guardian you're going to lose against pressure builds. Also, using absolutely terrible teammates as an argument is a logical fallacy. If the Ele on your team is THAT bad, you won't be getting 25 wins anyway. All of this was covered on the old "Mo/any Arena Monk" page, but apparently I'm going to have to explain it to everyone yet AGAIN. Zuranthium 08:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Can somebody remove ikomono's vote, his reasoning doesnt really qualify it for 1-1.. 3-3 at the least. --Steamy..x 08:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Prots win games against damage packets, This build is easier to take down than the MR build. which is quite a stupid feat. The current all heal build is incredibly stupid; even more so with 8 points pumped into tactics to increase a stance that isn't going to be useful past 2-4 seconds.--Ikimono...And my Axe!Monk-Paragon-icon 10:52, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
If you think it's easier to take down than an MR Monk, you have absolutely no idea how to play and should not be posting about this build. Zuranthium 18:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Insults make you look smart HURR HURR--Ikimono...And my Axe!Monk-Paragon-icon 10:30, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

ya'll niggas postin in a troll thread. -Auron 11:01, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Umm, I dont know if you know but blocking an(average) assasins lead attack can easily prevent more then 250 damage. And there are usually more then 1 physical on the same target so you sortof have a double win. A non elite 250+ "heal" for 5 energy is good enough for me. Not to mention it avoids interrupts on WoH. I would rather have it over virgorous spirit. But I guess thats just one part of the crowds opinions. Some monks are good at using guardian and like using it and some don't. And you can't possibly argue with opinions. Ocirne23 11:03, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Have fun losing against a good pressure team. Zuranthium 18:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Steamy, your vote needs to be changed as well I think. This guy removed guardian from the main bar. Ocirne23 11:06, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I called this shit

I totally did. Right before you get too butthurt by a wiki Zurrie, I'm gonna explain how things work around here. PvX is not here to document what YOU run, PvX is here to document what the majority of people run, what is meta. You could be the only person who runs CoP/Spotless, so how does that document what is being run as a majority? The current build notes the 5 skills that are always run, that is a majority of the bar and is in general what everyone runs when playing WoH in RA. There are 3 bloody optional slots that you can fill with YOUR variation, Readem's variation, Jake's variation, fucking Jesus' variation for all I care (not KJ the real deal), in general it is down to the player to decide what they prefer, some people prefer other things and play with them well. Remember, PvX isn't here to document what you run, but what is meta and good, and the build page with 3 optional slots represents that at it's best. --Frosty Frostcharge 11:35, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Some people don't run Draw. Some people run Balanced Stance over Dolyak Signet. Ultimately, it's a build TEMPLATE. If an individual runs something different, and it's effective, and it's in the variants somewhere, then everyone needs to stop complaining. Only thing I disagree with you about, Frosty, is that meta != good, very occasionally. Just because everyone runs a particular build, doesn't mean it's good...and PvX is here to document effective builds. But I know what you mean. PVX-RustyTheMesmer 11:49, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you, Justice finally! Ocirne23 12:08, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
"You could be the only person who runs CoP/Spotless, so how does that document what is being run as a majority". I'm hardly the only person running that. It's pretty common. Zuranthium 18:31, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Also - "Remember, PvX is here to document what is meta and good, and the build page with 3 optional slots represents that at it's best." A build with 3 optional slots HARDLY represents that. It represents nothing at all. If you want to be specific, there are ONLY 3 skills you can be sure any RA monk will have. They are WoH, Patient Spirit, and Bonetti's. So unless you want to strip the build down to those 3 skills, and then provide 5 optional slots, your argument completely fails. Zuranthium 18:38, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
And yet another thing - the build I posted up several days ago was vetted into the "Great" section with a dozen votes less than a day after it was created. Clearly THAT SPECIFIC BUILD was deemed to be excellent by the community. Keep a general WoH page if you don't want to have a specific bar that people can come to this site to load and play with. Zuranthium 18:53, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
"I'm hardly the only person running that. It's pretty common." Umm, hell no its not. And don't try to prove me wrong coz im sortof in ra 8hours a day..... (yes I still have a life, sortof). I do agree that those 3 skills are the ones that everyone has, but there still has to be a build. When opinions are closed out, this current set does the best job.
Umm, yes it is. At least in terms of several non-bad Monks using it. The one good thing you've said - "there still has to be a build". Indeed, there does. And this main page is NOT a build. Zuranthium 19:21, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Policy > opinion PVX-RustyTheMesmer 05:35, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

Diciplined stance optional?

I personally like to use it over Dolyak Signet since it sortof already prevents KD and it blocks, its good to prevent interrupts on your skills, I think it is worthy of a spot, but I may be wrong. Ocirne23 12:13, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

^ variant I mean. and... "~Protectors Defense over Dolyak Signet, if you think the movement reduction hurts" ghehe funny. Ocirne23 17:44, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Figure out a complete mainbar.

Because this is really dumb. You can have a full set bar on the mainpage and vote with the variants section in mind too. That is in fact what you're doing by having 3 optional slots. And, of the 5 skills listed here, some people don't even bring 2 of them. Really pointless as it stands. Zuranthium 19:03, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Will you please stop it. Your opinion does not matter, this bar suits every players wishes. Excluding you, stop being ungrateful, its very rude.Ocirne23 19:09, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
You could put example mini skill bars to reflect the full bars that people run? Hareemuhhh.talk? 19:11, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
On the other hand, I think you are right, as most people don't use Dolyak or Draw Conditions. I think there should be "slot-specific" optionals, "Slot 3 must eighter be Draw, Dismiss (Mending Touch)" But again, just an opinion and not "zomg I HAs hax0r skilLz so sTFU and be like me" Ocirne23 19:14, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
"this bar suits every players wishes". No it doesn't. "Your opinion does not matter". Yes it does. Zuranthium 19:22, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
That is what you think. Ocirne23 19:28, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
The only reason we are having this discussion is because over a month ago I posted on the old "Mo/any Arena WoH" page that a pure healing bar was best. Idiots disagreed and there was a debate and then I posted a link to the Guru forums wherein EVERY good Monk agreed with me (along with multiple screenshots of me getting 25 wins with a pure heal bar). Flash forward to several days ago, I decided to create a Pure Healing RA Monk page simply to be nice and provide the community with a build since I often get PMs from people in RA saying "what should I run/what is your build?". The build was immediately vetted into "Great" and then the page was destroyed for no reason. And now we are again back to not having a build for people to come to the site and load up and be able to play with. Zuranthium 19:42, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Okay we all know zurie is being a bitch about this, but can we agree Ocirne is a completely terrible player for suggesting we take draw and dolyak off the mainbar? Like that's just retarded pal--TahiriVeila 20:01, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree to you and Im a good monk, altough I could never surpass your ego, I still have the courage to call myself a "good" monk Ocirne23 20:02, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Well They are the best in my opinion and they should be on the bar. And it is fine as it is, I just find it hard to switch to draw after using dismiss for like... eternity. not that comfortable at maintaining DW on myself >.> Ocirne23 20:04, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Stfu and deal with it. You should have so much armor stacked on you (disciples, AL+& spear, q7 AL 15 shield, AL +10 vs damage type, dolyak) that nothing can DPS you out. You should ALWAYS be the last one alive on your team, keeping yourself up is never a problem it's keeping your team up. With proper equip rodgorts should hit in the ~50s and axe wars running superiors his for ~5. Stop being bad, I know zurie's being a whiney bitch on this page but he's actually right. With the exception of Contemplation (I prefer cure) the woh page he put up is the best arena bar out there. It's not a matter of opinion. Unfortunately we had tons of shitters like you who don't know how to play bitch and we had to compromise with this half-assed page. Gratz, can you sod off now? Cheers--TahiriVeila 20:11, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
so...much...irony...can't...compute... Gringo 20:16, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Your wit never ceases to amuse me :< --TahiriVeila 20:19, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Alrightythen, Im not that bad of a guy actually, I just like this kind of debates :P Ocirne23 20:20, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
Mass debates. --Frosty Frostcharge 20:43, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
(On Topic) If you Want a full bar set, leave the main bar the way it is, and put in 2 minibars, one with guardian, and one that is the mirror of the pure heal build. Would that make you happy? we get the universal main bar, and we can put in "sample" minibars to show the 2 most commonly run variants. eh? eh? 128.208.115.71 20:48, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
The "universal" main bar is not universal. It's just useless. Minibars don't let people come to the site and quickly copy+paste either. Everyone needs to just buckle down and let one single bar be on the mainbar as a representative "RA Monk" bar and then let the variants section take care of the rest. Zuranthium 00:12, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
The current mainbar is terrible. Not having prots in RA is a complete joke.--72.189.80.199 00:53, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Tons of people getting 25 wins with pure healing says otherwise. Learn to play the bar properly. It's always a bit of a toss up, Guardian is better against a team without disruption and lots of physicals, but that chance of facing that is far less likely than facing than teams with heavy condi/hex pressure and caster damage. Zuranthium 01:37, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

to show all optionals...

Word of Healing Patient Spirit Optional Optional Optional Optional Bonetti's Defense Optional

Optional Optional 1:

Optional Optional 2:

Optional Optional 3:

Optional Optional 4:

Optional Optional 5:

but a bar with just 3 skills sucks.Illoyon 21:18, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, doing all that doesn't help anyone. All those optional will just confuse people and likely cause them to mix skills in unfavorable ways. Zuranthium 00:12, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
yeah it would definitely confuse a 2 year old--Relyk talk 00:17, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
^ +1 The fact that there IS this much discussion about the bar should make it pretty obvious that there ARE OTHER POSSIBLE VARIANTS!!!! OMG! calling people bad doesn't change that other things also work. 128.208.115.71 00:19, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
And that's why there is a variants section. For variants. Someone saying that a Melandru's Resilience monk is better than a pure heal Mo/W is simply bad, though. No two ways about it. I see that the main bar here has been fixed now. I will fix the variants section and the "Usage" section so that it is sufficiently detailed. Zuranthium 00:28, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Ok so I desided to try this build and..... it owns! really, 105 armour lols at damage. only cracked armour makes me a little sad. but thats all Ocirne23 11:16, May 19, 2010 (UTC)

A 40/20% staff for virgorous?

Its both dangerous and overkill to your energy, making your already-somewhat low health drop by 60 points is just too risky considering that a shield + 20% ench spear work just as well. So I suggest

  • A Furious Spear of Enchanting (+5e) and a req7 vs x damage shield Ocirne23 13:14, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
Do you know how to weapon swap? Fuck man you keep revealing how bad you are with every post.--TahiriVeila 16:24, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
He is saying that the health drop might kill you in certain situations (it happens); not that he can't swap. I have never really found it to be a huge issue however. --Readem 16:27, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
I can't see how that'd ever bee a problem since you're gonna have at most a 60 health difference (30 if you have the right equip) between your shield set and your staffset? If you're that low on health i don't think you should be casting vig anyway =\ --TahiriVeila 16:39, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
So I'm bad thx, but why the fk would you use a staff when a 20%spear works just as well. Stuff happens and you might be quarterknocked while you were just casting virgorous at full health making you unable to change to your shield set. And stop trolling ffs im just having a serious conversation. The advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Ocirne23 16:48, May 19, 2010 (UTC)
+5 armor «NoѴit..« 16:51, May 19, 2010 (UTC)