Build talk:P/W Imbagon

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Weapon Suggestion

The equipment for this indicates a zealous, vampiric, or sundering spear tip. It seems to me that the build centers around SY, which is adrenaline based. Shouldnt the suggested tip then be furious instead to increase the use of SY? --Ascalon Destroyer 18:21, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

The assumption is that you're running this with an orders derv (or whatever's hip that includes dark fury) so that you're charging SY in two attacks, so it's not needed. Instead, more damage or energy management is good, depending on your variant of the build. — Maf so rational. 22:58, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

Tbh I think energy isn't a problem, and since you usually don't want elemental mods(for barbs,OoP, etc.) your best off going with vamp for extra damage Sharky_talk 23:06, June 1, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know, it depends what you're taking in the optionals. More energy-heavy things need more energy management. But do what you like. — Maf so rational. 04:37, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I can think of a few variants that would want a zealous mod, but I think (though I don't have the math to back it up) that +3 (unmitigatable) damage per attack generally outdoes the increased damage from using your attack skills a bit more often.

That said, damage isn't the main focus of this character, so use what you have readily available. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 03:33, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

If the assumption is that you are charging SY in 2 hits, you might as well remove zealous suggestion, because you really don't need more than 3 energy per hit (6 from leadership every 2 hits). Vampiric, sundering, heavy (if taking AoR) or cruel (when taking some form of DW like FTW!) are then far better options. 21:06, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Why Anthems?

TNTF is all you need to maintain AR. Why would anyone need an anthem? Especially if it means stopping your running every time you need to recast.

TNTF's recharge makes it annoying to use to maintain AR because it requires paying attention.

Beyond that, in a team with large numbers of physicals, AoF provides a bunch of damage and AoW provides fuel for Stunning Strike, etc, in addition to being weakness, which is powerful in and of itself.

-- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 23:14, June 3, 2010 (UTC)

This build needs to be revisited.

I recently started using this build on my paragon, and I don't know what it is, but it just seems to not be working correctly. Agressive refrain does not stay on, energy management sucks because there is none, damage is pretty bad (I know it's not intended to be doing huge amounts of damage, but people expect other players to mostly damage unless they are healers/etc.), and personally I don't like TNTF or SY, they just don't seem all that great. Just my two cents. --Comander Guardian 22:00, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

you're suppose to use it with an orders necro generally. you can maintain AR with tn2f, but if you have trouble, bring anthem of flame. also tntf and sy probably dont seem amazing if you're not doing hm areas where enemies hit 100s and nuke the whole party--Relyk _talk 22:17, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

FYI for every 40 amour points reduces damage by half. SY rocks---XTREME 22:43, June 8, 2010 (UTC)

This build is perfectly viable without an orders character. This build has great energy-management (6 free energy from SY every few seconds). AR is easy to keep up with TNTF and/or an Anthem. 18:28, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Some changes?

Point 1: Flurry is always better than aggression. It says in optionals that it can replace aggression but not suggested for beginning paragons. 1st, wiki is supposed to store optimal builds, no? 2nd, how is it hard at all to use flurry? 3rd, faster ims is better obviously and not being squishy when you are the only player not buffed with save yourselves is ideal. Point 2: The damage provided by this build is very subpar, it is much more of a defensive build than a damage build, so why is spear mastery the highest attribute at 13? Imo lower it to 9 and bring leadership to 14, better e-management and longer lasting "There's nothing to fear!" Point 3: Fall back should definitely be an optional, is great for any team no using cons. Smity 21:15, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

1. flurry is a waste of energy, flurry is a waste of energy, and paragons aren't squishie
2. atleast you're doing some damage, you don't need more energy, and 1 second longer isn't significant
3. look in variants and stop being an autist

--Relyk _talk 22:03, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Agressive refrain -20 armor makes para's alot more squishy. I guess I am not seeing any reason to ever use aggressive refrain.. Even with flurry's damage reduction, it probably does more damage because of damage buffs like orders, EBSoH, barbs, MoP, etc. Smity 22:13, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Also, you say "flurry is a waste of energy" and "you don't need more energy" in the same breath. Smity 22:43, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

let me rephrase it in a way that you won't take out of context: you dont need more energy from using shouts--Relyk _talk 22:45, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

One second longer "There's nothing to fear!" is nice, and the extra energy from shouts helps if you think that flurry is such a drain on energy. Flurry is clearly superior, if it wasn't why does the build page say that flurry is for experienced paras? My whole point is that flurry should be main barred and aggressive should go to optionals for "inexperienced paras". Smity 22:50, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

Because an anon put it there. believe it or not, spears actually do damage! what you sacrifice to deal some damage is really insignificant if ever you used the build.--Relyk _talk 23:11, July 20, 2010 (UTC)

To quote Racthoh, "WHEN I CAN'T SY WAND DPS MAKES ME WIPE!".

You're way too concerned about survivability. An imbagon with Aggressive up has (80 base + 16 shield + 10 insignia - 20 AR = ) 86 AL and ~600 HP. It's not like you're going to fall over in two seconds. If you're in hard mode and things are hitting you for a lot of damage, get your monk to put pretty much any prot on you.

1s longer TNTF isn't worth decreased tab-space damage unless your team can't keep you up anyway (in which case you should probably bring a healer who knows how to push buttons). Flurry is weak because it decreases your damage dealt and drains a billion energy per second (which you should be spending on attack skills/ward honor/etc).

Way too many people underestimate spear DPS. This is a build that provides enough defense to justify bringing only one healer for a lot of areas; increasing the duration of TNTF by one second isn't going to mean you can drop that healer. Since you can still tab around and do reasonably ridiculous damage (at range, no less!), there's no point in not building for such. Granted, it's not going to do much against 360AL targets, but again, the extra second of TNTF isn't going to help much there anyway, so you've got nothing to lose (and you should be using a specific team build for those kinds of areas, not this build).

-- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 18:20, July 22, 2010 (UTC)

I removed the note stating Flurry should only be brought with GFTE due to energy management. Flurry + SY = +2 net energy gain every 5 seconds... I realize that math is hard, and also that those of you using the imbagon for his EPIC SPEAR DAMAGE might skimp on the SY spamming, but I've never had energy trouble bringing flurry, and that means you shouldn't either.67.182.24.195 16:59, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

flurry should really be main bar... skakid9090 00:01, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

"For Great Justice!"

Do you really need that on the mainbar? I seem to get away without the permanent adrenaline boost with furious spear & timing Sy to be charged just as Focused ends..

Occasionally I swap vicious attack & GFTE! for Fall Back & something helpful for HM. [ I use sweets as the IAS since AR has always seemed a bit clunky to use. --Chieftain Alex 23:18, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

SYG doesnt do anything with SY up and most don't want to blow sweets for casual pve. Life Guardian 23:23, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

You say you don't need FGJ because you can time furious spear to be able to cover the gap. Then you show us your build which doesn't have FGJ or furious.. 15:35, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Well I posted it quite late at night :) plus I usually use a P/W build with cyclone axe. pew pew para with axe <3 --Chieftain Alex 22:09, October 11, 2010 (UTC)