Archive 1 ~ June 14, 2007 to January 17, 2008

As for people whining about AB

It works in AB. Even if it didn't who cares? Any sensible person would relate Cripshot to GvG, not AB. Stop whining and rate it on GvG mainly, not "Waahh! It can't cap shrines!" AB is practically the lowest form of PvP. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 19:06, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Why are you creating another header for this? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 19:13, 7 February 2008 (EST)
On the odd chance that the idiots who vote this down read the talk page? Lord Belar 19:35, 7 February 2008 (EST)
There are already two three sections covering that. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 19:50, 7 February 2008 (EST)
Well, that just leaves trolling. Lord Belar 19:52, 7 February 2008 (EST)
Yeah, that's what was implied. ;) — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 20:08, 7 February 2008 (EST)
this build works fine in AB, as long as you pair it up with a good damage attack. my personal favourite is sloth hunter's shot. that one skill allows the cripshot to almost match the DPS of a burning arrow ranger, and spike harder to boot. and cap shrines too, although it's not particularly fast.--Moriz 22:46, 7 February 2008 (EST)

first of all u say rate it for gvg then y is it under ab builds The preceding unsigned comment was added by (contribs) .

Builds are rated for the highest-level arena they can be used in - in this case, GvG. If they can be used for other arenas, those are added to the tag, but they're rated on their performance in the highest-level area they're labeled for.
For reference, here's the arenas, organized from most skill required to least skill required:
  1. GvG
  2. HA
  3. TA
  4. RA
  5. CM
  6. AB
  7. PvE
-- 18:16, 24 February 2008 (EST)
Your order's wrong, tbh. More like:
  1. GvG
  2. TA
  3. AB
  4. HA
  5. CM
  6. RA
  7. PvE.
Then again, I have massive anti-HA bias. — Edru/QQ 10:10, 8 March 2008 (EST)
I'd say this way.
  1. GvG
  2. TA
  3. HA
  4. RA
  5. PvE
  6. AB
  7. CM
You still have hard mode in PvE, and DoA and stuff, which you don't have in CM/AB. While it might be easy to complete a campaign, you shouln't forget hard mode. And having AB > HA is lulz. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 14:32, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
              1. scrubs
  1. 1v1
  2. pve
  3. gvg
  4. rest dont matter

Skakid 14:33, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Pvpeasy<<It must be true, this guy said so. Dejh 14:43, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

How does this not work for CM? For FA, you can cripple the turtles for Kurzicks, for Luxon, they can cripple monks or bonders. For JQ, it is the most fun to use of all. Cripple the carrier. I think CM should be second of the list at least.


I'd like to reiterate that this build can excel in arenas, as well. 4 on 4 is a lot about pressure, and this build dishes it out. The crippling can relieve melee pressure on your healers and can create additional pressure on the opponents' healers by preventing them from kiting away. Zubey 11:12, 20 February 2008 (EST)

This is more of a defensive build. In Arenas, you don't really need that (maybe TA to help your Monk kite, but in RA, no). In AB, you use it to slow down people from capping shrines. In CM, you use it to slow people from getting to Gunther. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 08:04, 8 March 2008 (EST)
Cripple owns in RA also, it owns anywhere since... its criphshot, its supposed 2 do everything. Fishels[슴Mc슴]Mootles 18:28, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
Cripshot is rather offensive then defensive in RA/TA, you use it to make 2W pwning. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 14:33, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

DOest Understand Innovation?

Is this Frvwfr2 saying that he doesn't understand the 4 in innovation, or saying that the user doesn't understand the concept of an innovation rating. If it's the first one, some of the votes have rather decent arguments for the 4 in innovation. I'm just curious whether it's a legitimate excuse, or Frv insuring that the build only gets 5-5-5's, not any 5-5-4's. EkkoWordEkko (Brother Starr) 19:03, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

there shouldn't be a 4 innovation rating for this build, because it should always b 5, reason? nearly every gvg match has one in it. Frost eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 19:10, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
But, that's universality or effectiveness, not innovation, and you're not answering my question. EkkoWordEkko (Brother Starr) 20:52, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
Innovation is, "Is this/can this be meta" Cripshot is meta. Ergo, 5 in innovation--Goldenstar 20:57, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
And this is definitely a 5/5/5 build anyways. Shock Axe has it, this has it too. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   21:07, 27 May 2008 (EDT) srsly tho, one of my favorite builds in gw, its just awesome. if any build deserves 5/5/5 this one does. 22:11, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Needs more blackout. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴɖɩđđɭɘş Grinshpon blinky cake 17:13, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

I love this build too. it is so much fun to cripple warriors that are attacking you then slowly back away...I use it for like everything(that it is tagged for) Hippo God 02:22, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Why can't this be an RA build?

Someone put this in RA, or I will. Avatar Kuzon 09:45, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

I think it's because you never know what else you have on your team in RA, and this build is mainly defensive (stop them from killing your monk/squishies) in TA. If it's offensive, it's to stop the other team from kiting, but RA teams are unlikely to let you know who they're going to spike, and there's no guarantee you'll have anyone who could benefit from cripple. EkkoWordEkko (Brother Starr) 11:09, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
It's always good to have the enemy team poisoned and moving slower, unless they're standing in an AoE heal and have Melandru's Resilience. -- 15:49, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
I heard interrupting diversion/shame/every elemantalist skill/WoH/Res Sig was good. not to mention spreading poison and perma-crippling melee's to make kiting ridiculously easy for your monk (or vice-versa, make kiting impossible for their monks). Don't give me that "you don't know who your teammates will be in RA" crap. This build is useful if your team has melee's, a monk, or people that know to run from crippled enemies. It is also useful if their team has melee's, people that can be poisoned, or people that cast spells. Loser223 23:32, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Antidote Signet buff

It can be used instead of Mending Touch since the update "Antidote Signet: functionality changed to: "Cleanse yourself of Poison, Disease, Blindness, and one additional condition." This can remove up to 4 Conditions, and it also frees up your secondary. -Mike 17:39, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Antidote Signet Antidote Signet Should be added? --Lann-sf2 Lann 17:39, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
No. — Skakid 17:40, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Ok then, look at the advantages: shorter recharge, can remove more conditions, isn't a spell.
Disadvantages: Will only remove one condition if not affected by Poison, Disease or Blindness, 1/4 second longer cast, and won't heal for a measly 48 points at max. >.> -Mike 17:44, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
At least make it a variant. -Mike 17:45, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Longer recharge and faster activation. Mending Touch is just much cooler anyway. --File:GoD Wario Sig.JPG*Wah Wah Wah!* 17:47, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
1/4 second is hardly noticeable, and Mending Touch is actually affected by Daze. I'll put it into Variants, but not in the main build, so don't worry. -Mike 17:49, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
And how will you remove conditions from someone who's not... you? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 17:52, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
^ i hurd daze on your monk was baed. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 17:55, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Very important to remove Daze from Rangers very essential to victory. — Skakid 17:56, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
It's touch-ranged, and standing adjacent to an ally isn't always smart. Besides, there isn't any harm in putting it into Variants. -Mike 17:57, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
lolwut Ska? I meant removing Daze from your monk. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 17:59, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Pretty sure recommending an inferior skill is harmful. Lord of all tyria 18:00, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Maybe on the R/Me, but definately not this. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 18:00, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Who runs Antidote Signet on a monk? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 18:01, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
WTF? You asked how you remove conditions from other people. I was agreeing and saying Mending Touch was good for taking Daze off the monk as well as blind off of you. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 18:02, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Oh, ok. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 18:03, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
My fault for trying to be as minimalist as possible. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 18:05, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Np. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 18:06, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

antidote signet has 1/4 second longer cast time. this might not seem like much, but thats 250ms, so if u could interrupt mending touch with 50 ping you could interrupt antidote signet with 300 ping. now, everyone knows only noobs have 300 ping, and if noobs can interrupt ur skill its a bad skill. 03:41, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

It seems to me the most important reason to take Mending Touch over Antidote Signet is the fact that Mending Touch can often be the only condition removal on a split and as such, it is very ####### important to not take Antidote Signet instead. It does free up your secondary if you take Antidote Signet, so if you have a damn good reason to do that, you can take Antidote Signet. - Misery Is Hawt19px 03:50, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Antidote signet is bad. Slower cast isn't made up for by faster recharge, and only conditional removal of your second condition? It's also excellent on a two-man gank. The healing may not seem like much, but when you've got deep wound on you, a 150 point heal is pretty amazing. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 11:11, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Antidote signet isn't as good as Mending touch, BUT it free's up your secondary, possibly for Blackout? /FrosTalk\ 11:15, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
See Build:R/Me Cripshot. 11:16, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
So what are you going to use your secondary for? Blackout? Yeah, right. Ignoring the fact that blackout is touch range and this is a ranger, assuming you trade mend touch for antidote sig, what are you going to give up for something from your secondary? The worst skill on here is troll, which means that if you give up troll, whatever you take will make you a far worse ganker. It's just not worth the trade. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 12:44, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
I dunno what someone is going to slap onto a ranger now, but the easiest way to do it I can see is taking Magebane as your elite, which gives you bar compression (only take two attack skills) or in arenas where people drop Troll anyway half the time. Heck, Magebane in an arena would give you two slots to use. People ran Blackout on rangers ages ago before Mending Touch, I wasn't in the GvG meta then, but I'm guessing it was for something like adrenaline denial on the split. Whatever people crank out here will probably be bad, but maybe someone somewhere will think of something worthwhile like a Meteor Shower ranger for ganking. - Misery Is Hawt19px 12:50, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
Cripshot + Meteor Shower - the ultimate hamstorm xD. ¬ Klumpeet 16:53{GMT}13-06-MMVIII
People ran blackout rangers back then because both Distortion and Blackout were overpowered. There was no nat stride, so rangers needed some form of block for the split, which meant overpowered Distortion. Was called team compression. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 13:03, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
Would of had to be bloody imba to spec into domination and illusion as well as wilderness, expertise and marksmanship and still get the desired effect. I can remember running Distortion, but not why... - Misery Is Hawt19px 13:28, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
You didn't spec Illusion. Distortion was fixed at 5 seconds with 4...2 energy loss. It was the standard stance for things with a free secondary. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 13:31, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
Disortion + blackout used to own, a not-able-to-dshot-me blackout as well as, look momma i'm frontlining mesmers. 75% block is lame. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 05:16, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

Antidote sig is better at stand, m-touch when you're actually getting into their base, which you should. So m-touch > a-sig. However, antidote sig does make you able to take blackout, which is interesting. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 09:24, 14 June 2008 (EDT) ITS IN THE ####### VARIANTS STOP ####### ARGUING--- ANON 19:40, 27 November 2008 (EST)

Possible Savage Shot Variant?

I'm wondering how effective this build is if you use Disrupting shot instead of Savage shot? 14:52, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Slightly less since it got 5 seconds additional recharge but overall the build isn't hurt alot by it. Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 14:53, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
Disrupting shot is kinda bad. Just use Savage. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 17:44, 29 June 2008 (EDT)

Hunter's Shot

In low level PVP (AB), it's easy to nail the condition on Hunter's Shot, especially following your Crippling Shot. Bleeding significantly increases the degen power of the build. Although I understand degen is not the build's focus, I feel Hunter's Shot is a better variant than Screaming Shot. Lazuli 23:54, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

Yes, and you get more spammable damage from it, as well as a quicker activation. I use Hunter's Shot in place of Resurrection Signet in AB. ــмıкεнaшк 07:25, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Several top guilds are taking Hunter's Shot into top 20 GvGs. The cast-time activation makes it easy to spread poison. Two common ways of doing this are IA --> Savage --> Hunter's and Melandru's --> Savage --> Hunter's. If you manage to nail an interrupt with Savage while you're at it, that's just extra candy. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{Bacon}} 18:26, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
You would use Hunter's after IA, since Savage has aftercast. --FrostyMini england 18:39, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
Added to variants. --The preceding srsly srs comment was added by Itokaru 19:04, 22 October 2008 (EDT)
why are you guys talking about using Incendiary Arrows in the cripshot build discussion? 16:51, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

This is my favorite build in any form of Pvp that I play, because it pisses people off when I hit them with Cripshot and Apply poison, and then interupt all their healing skills.

Knockdowns anybody...?--IkimonoGaston was a Paragon...Paragon-icon-small 01:40, 15 November 2008 (EST)
What? --FrostyMini england 01:44, 15 November 2008 (EST)
just that a knockdown does 2 of the 3 things he mentioned above. keep a target stationary and they and their team is ######. But yea, this build is an undeniably godly build.--IkimonoGaston was a Paragon...Paragon-icon-small 01:52, 15 November 2008 (EST)
Cripple is(can be) constant, KD isn't. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   19:44, 27 November 2008 (EST)
BBsin + FGJ! prenerf disagrees--GoldenGoldenstarStar 21:24, 27 November 2008 (EST)
Well this is also ranged AND unblockable. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   21:46, 27 November 2008 (EST)
still not as strong as 42 seconds of quarter knock on ghost (my record)--GoldenGoldenstarStar 21:50, 27 November 2008 (EST)
Cripshot is strong, knocklock are strong and brave. The people Goldenstar played against in HA were apparently really weak. Everyone can go home now. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 00:57, 28 November 2008 (EST)

First; lol q-knocking a ghost. Second, Lol at not killing a ghost after 42 seconds. Third, it's not possible as even the prenerf FGJ was 20 seconds. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 08:54, 14 January 2009 (EST)

Morale Rawrawr Dinosaur 12:05, 18 January 2009 (EST)

What do you guys prefer in HA? Meladru's or Crippling?--Hyprodimus Prime 22:02, 14 January 2009 (EST)

Both are bad, but melandru's less so. Incendiary + foes + grasping (+ pin down) is the way to go in tombs. -Auron 12:08, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Vote Removal

Can I get a better reason why my vote was removed?Talyyn Silent Wind 00:10, 18 January 2009 (EST)

From what I understand about your vote, it was removed for a handful of reasons. First, cripshot is the iconic ranger build - nothing does better than Cripshot at its job. That deserved a 5 in effectiveness. You also talk about being bad at capping shrines in AB - that's not true, this is great at AB. It's reliably hardy and can spread degen and snares to stop the other team. Lastly, innovation isn't how "new" the build is, it's a measure of how likely the build is to be popular and change the dynamics of the metagame. —The preceeding signed comment was added by Ekko (talk|contribs). 11:31, 18 January 2009 (EST)
All votes must be 5-5-5. crazyCowcow 11:54, 18 January 2009 (EST)


Isn't there supposed to be a discussion about archiving? This still works - it's better at spreading cripple than Melu's and it's unblockable. —The preceeding signed comment was added by Ekko (talk|contribs). 12:13, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Show me a single guild that still runs this. It just isn't good. It was epic for 3 years, but the meta has moved on. There are better options for cripple, and sometimes even those are sacrificed for escape/pin down if you just need to stay alive. For GvG, pewpew bars or melandrus are king. For TA, magebane or mels. For tombs, incendiary or mels. This isn't used anymore. Hence the archive. The only discussion that would take place are people arguing about it being used by bad players in bad arenas, since all the top-end players stopped using it months ago. -Auron 12:17, 18 January 2009 (EST)
TA is 95% pewpew D= Rawrawr Dinosaur 12:20, 18 January 2009 (EST)
Who the fuck runs mels in TA? It's BA, BHA (daze teams), or Mage. Or the rare emp removal. —ǥrɩɳsɧƴɖɩđđɭɘş Grinshpon blinky cake 20:25, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Good Bye

sweet love-WaffleZ LOL- 12:45, 18 January 2009 (EST)

Yes it hurts seeing this archived. Bye bye epicness :( Asrael 15:48, 23 January 2009 (EST)
what da fuck when did this happen!? ƃuoן sı Escape ʇɐɔƃuoן 17:09, 7 February 2009 (EST)
When no one ran Rangers except for big damage, and Cripshot isn't exactly big damage. And because M-Shot achieves Cripple easily as well as damage. --GoD Hammer and Sickle Guild of Deals 18:04, 7 February 2009 (EST)
Still the most unkillable build in gw--Relyk 18:12, 7 February 2009 (EST)
I agree. We'll miss you cripshot! >.> PVX-Zyke 07:19, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

yeah thank gods its gone woot l8r cripshot 20:29, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

i miss cripshot Terran 20:30, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

OMG screw melandrus, cripshot was sooooo much more fun QQ i still love u cripshot :( The El33t 03:26, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
yay mels screwed... i even saw a cripshot in observer mode now! happyhappyhappy!! 06:50, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


Less damage in the current meta, possible unarchival? Frostysig9000FrostytheAdmin 10:04, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

ohaider, we missed you sorely cripshot. Zyke-Sig 00:51, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

wb, i have lots to tell you about a meta where rangers didn't take skill and just went t 123 mashing~WaffleZWafflesigLOL(contribs) 19:18, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Cripshot Replies, "Uhm... rangers still 1-2-3-mash shit?" --BlazingBurdy 06:01, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like pretty much every GW build --Frosty Mc Admin 10:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
CRIPSHOT! Maybe people will understand rangers are supposed to spread conditions and add pressure rather than deal damage. Oh, how I missed you! 20:38, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
Life Sheath, Draw Conditions and Foul Feast say OHAIDER! /laugh@conditionpressure --BlazingBurdy 04:58, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
lol, you are BAD --Xmassigangelus 08:06, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
someone clearly knows where this build is intended first and foremost. --Frosty Frostcharge 11:42, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
@ Angelus, "You are bad" is an invalid counter-arguement [period]. @ Frosty, You're probably referring to 8v8 GvG format, or even HA [but GvG mainly], because you have many physical attackers to follow up for a spike. It's ownage in 8v8, but I'm referring to RA [sorry for not clarifying] where spikes don't exist [only pressure], and I really don't think it's productive enough. C.Shot has no bonus damage and costs more than Mel's. If Anet maybe gave C.Shot a quick-activation and teeny conditional bonus damage like Mel's, then it'd be totally worth it. I don't ever see rangers roll C.Shot in RA [ever], but I'm certain it's total ownage in GvG. My vote is to remove the RA tag because it just doesn't see any oustanding usage there. I personally haven't seen it in months, and I grind RA alot to pass time, at all hours. --BlazingBurdy 17:40, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
Saying you are bad is a perfectly valid argument. And I'm sorry to say, he's right. You just said a ton of terrible things. ---Chaos- (moo) -- 17:51, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
By that logic, all conditions are bad. ---Chaos- (moo) -- 17:51, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Conditions are good, but lack of high enough DPS in 4v4 is bad. How's me telling ya'll that's bad make it a ton of terrible things? Get out from under your bridge, troll. Face facts.. C.Shot in RA is garbage, and I'm all for RA tag removal in light of this relevant fact.--BlazingBurdy 04:03, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

/agree Terran 04:30, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
are you honestly fucking kidding me? if you want damage in your bar so bad, take sloth in the optional or something like it. poison is great in RA because you can spread it around and cause great pressure. and you are especially bad if you think cripshot is bad in RA. pretty sure being able to crip multiple frontliners at the same time is good. and it also gets covered by poison which if removed, gets put back on with the shot of one arrow. you dont always win RA with damage. sometimes RA requires you to think past the typical, "I SEE SHIT, I KILL SHIT." utility is very good for RA also and maybe you should try it sometime. --Xmassigangelus 07:05, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Dude, you said that cripshot requires a buff, how is that not being bad? ---Chaos- (moo) -- 10:25, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

He is right to an extent, Cripshot is a pretty bad RA elite, unlike obviously in GvG. But tbh, it works well enough to suffice an RA tag, it may not be the best ranger build for RA but it does work. --Frosty Frostcharge 10:57, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

Lack of physical damage on a generic ranger in with split atts in WS + marks is offset by keeping poison spread on 3 or 4 people, interrupting key skills so your team can do damage (empathy, IP, b-surge etc.) and res control. In the end the team with the most RTL'ers, mind blasters, tab hexers etc. usually does win in RA though. Dual stance Magebane is probably the most effective setup for an RA ranger but other elites, including crip do have their uses. Crip would be much better if most players were not 60AL lemmings that don't kite when you snare. - Zero.Six Z123 15:45, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

^--Bluetapeboy 04:16, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Screaming Shot

Seems like a good optional for RA. Mr Pink57 20:22, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

No. Abuse Precision Shot instead till it gets fixed (used it on a scrub using Shadow of Haste in RA, funniest thing ever). 21:47, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
What's wrong with it currently? Zyke-Sig 22:00, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
It removes a stance on hit. Life Guardian 22:01, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
=0 Pro. Zyke-Sig 22:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

cripshot nerf hurr durr

so what are the thoughts on this build now that cripshot has lost the 2x speed? I'd say it loses a lot of power because the arrows can now easily be avoided. Bartender 20:57, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Cripshot still got buffed compared to earlier. --Chaos? -- 21:53, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
Well, it was nerfed compared to lolOP double arrow speed, it does hurt but in all honesty it should never have been like that in the first place. Now it lasts a good few seconds longer which is nice i guess, but not as OP. --Frosty Frostcharge 21:58, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

stalwart insignia

Think its worth using? 04:53, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

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