Discussion
Melandru's isn't that great really. Frosty No U! 21:06, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
- Lots of moving foes in ab and cm though, and snare and degen look good to me. Huynh Sanity 21:13, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
- Wish recharge was less--74.61.209.219 01:25, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
- Lots of moving foes in ab and cm though, and snare and degen look good to me. Huynh Sanity 21:13, 7 August 2008 (EDT)
- Agreed, 5r would be good, but 10 is just... bad. -- Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 01:27, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
Not quite gr8 anymore. Fix tag plx? -- Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 03:04, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
But yes I agree w/ good. Or close enough. -- Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 03:13, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
You're all bad stfu —SkaKid
17:58, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
- no u --Get Your Wood On Discuss 19:33, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
you are all bad. that is all. --Readem 22:24, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
- I still like DnF more. --Readem 23:46, 20 August 2008 (EDT)
Just checking, gw is being fgt and won't let me on now. Bleeding covers crippled from this, right? --Tab Moo
06:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Godliest tells me its bleeding covered by crippled, which makes this alot worse. Leaving votes as they are for now. --Tab Moo
06:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
Why would it matter if crippled is covered by bleeding? It is still covered by poison regardless. --Readem 20:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- If both covered it, it would be able to survive a mtouch. Not a huge deal, but it would make it that much more effective as a split template. --Tab Moo 06:17, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
This is good because...
Explain this to me please. ~~ Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 12:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Readem's reason explains it well. Minus the last few words. =o — Rapta (talk|contribs) 14:16, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- His rating is wrong. It says it has less recharge than those, but it doesn't. It has 10, Sloth and Pin Down have 8, and Hunter's has 5. And also, Great, it combines compression of Sloth, Hunters, and Pin Down. Big fuckin deal. Why does noone run Hunters? Cuz bleeding is shit. Pin Down is better as it has less recharge and is UNCONDITIONAL. ~~ Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 14:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- ^ +1 Massive 16:12, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- ^ +1 Massive
- Also seen alot run this whit Concussion shot (The Champ is Here only tough:P) but CS looks kinda decent since u wont spam Mel Shot and the rest of skills such as Crippshot so maybe gogog variant:P If this is for Split Daze is pretty naise, since offhand condition removal is very rare exept Mtouch and u should dshot that one too :) Massive 16:14, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Tab, mine and Massive's votes are fine. It is still unexplained why this skill is epically awesome. ~~ Frvwfr2 talk contribs admin 18:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Also seen alot run this whit Concussion shot (The Champ is Here only tough:P) but CS looks kinda decent since u wont spam Mel Shot and the rest of skills such as Crippshot so maybe gogog variant:P If this is for Split Daze is pretty naise, since offhand condition removal is very rare exept Mtouch and u should dshot that one too :) Massive
If you take into consideration, that this is one skill and you listed 3, Melandru's Shot has a lower rec (when you take into account the various conditions required for each skill; and this doesn't even factor in after-cast delay). Just because you have to be semi-decent to use Melandru's shot, doesn't mean it is bad. The quick activation makes the movement condition easy to fulfill. As for the ten second recharge, use that time to interrupt key skills and spread poison. --Readem 19:03, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- While this skill may be versatile it still is mediocre in everything it tries to do, comparatively. I don't know you are testing everyone to see if they will follow your words blindly (like every religion) or what. --Get Your Wood On Discuss 19:29, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- I cannot tell whether you are just bad, or merely ignorant. Regardless, I don't lie about builds. I don't have time to waste (about anything for that matter), but if you would like to see my explanation as to why Mshot is the best Ranger elite in the game currently, feel free to read Frv's Talk Page. --Readem 19:41, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- I wouldn't say it's the best. Cripshot and IA are both better than it. It's just another good alternative for different build requirements. --Tab Moo 06:14, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- I wouldn't say it's the best. Cripshot and IA are both better than it. It's just another good alternative for different build requirements. --Tab Moo
- I cannot tell whether you are just bad, or merely ignorant. Regardless, I don't lie about builds. I don't have time to waste (about anything for that matter), but if you would like to see my explanation as to why Mshot is the best Ranger elite in the game currently, feel free to read Frv's Talk Page. --Readem 19:41, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
All the Bullshit
Some numbers and points:
The following numbers are conceptual and based on 12 marks, ignoring the effects of any preparation or, as regards the damage part of this, the effect of cripple.
- Sloths gives +52 damage every 8 seconds and 22 every 8 seconds if unsuccessful.
- Mels gives +22 plus damage in hard numbers, and assuming bleeding last the entire 21 second duration (worth 126 damage) it will do a total of 148 damage.
- Therefore over a conceptual 40 second time frame (LCD ftw) sloths is good for +260 damage if successful and +110 damage if unsuccesful (a +185 average).
- Over a conceptual 40 second time frame mels is good for +592 damage if successful and +0 damage if unsuccessful (a +246 average).
- On condition removal:
- Restore Condition at 14 Prot will heal 66 health for the removal of bleeding, reducing the +148 damage to anywhere from -44 (immediate removal) damage to +82 (if removed at the last second).
- Mending Touch at 1 prot(for all intents and purposes the effective spec in GvG on a ranger) will heal for 15 health for the removal of bleeding, reducing the +148 damage to anywhere from +7 (immediate removal) to +133 (last second).
So basically, +61 damage difference on a non elite skill that is not vulnerable to condition removal. Thats fact not opinion.
Against Screaming Shot, i'll say the following: Being a split skill, it wont be vulnerable to RC much at all, but also, is unconditional(or much much less conditional) and will be used mainly on NPC's, who are both invulnerable to condition removal, and aren't moving.
Against Cripshot, you'd have to be baked to use them in the same capacity. But, on a split, i'd rather snare them with a good skill than a bad skill, and then have a functional elite at the stand.
Honestly, all i wanted to get at is that this skill is absolutely useless at the stand, is conditional and almost definetly less effective on the split, and offers bar compression for skills which shouldnt be compressed because they are used in entirely different capacities.File:Dark0805 Piplup.jpg--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 19:51, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- didnt read, urbad —SkaKid 19:54, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- moar math: readem mentioned on frv's page:
- "As a ranger, you already have enough tasks to micro-manage"
- Accepting that the troll nstride mtouch an res sig arent skills being used or nearly being used on recharge, the standard ranger bar, not counting elite, uses a skill every 9 seconds OR MORE BECAUSE IF YOU'RE JUST USING DSHOT ON RECHARGE YOU'RE AWFUL. 9 seconds. you have to be a fucking mongoloid to be unable to consider the correct use of your elite during that time. File:Dark0805 Piplup.jpg--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 20:01, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Quit emoing out. No one runs Screaming Shot now and using pewpew ranger logic is bad. Try to rate the build for what it is and not up against other elites. If you want snares, of course you'd run a Cripshot. No one's comparing other than you. By your logic, Bull's Strike has a lengthy recharge, and you can't pewpew it, so it must, thus, be god awful compared to Prot strike, which does more damage and is more spammable. You run this to save half a bar worth of slots that you normally wouldn't have, since you're not taking Sloth's/Pin Down/Hunter's (Hunter's is bad though). — Rapta (talk|contribs) 20:23, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Quit emoing out. No one runs Screaming Shot now and using pewpew ranger logic is bad. Try to rate the build for what it is and not up against other elites. If you want snares, of course you'd run a Cripshot. No one's comparing other than you. By your logic, Bull's Strike has a lengthy recharge, and you can't pewpew it, so it must, thus, be god awful compared to Prot strike, which does more damage and is more spammable. You run this to save half a bar worth of slots that you normally wouldn't have, since you're not taking Sloth's/Pin Down/Hunter's (Hunter's is bad though). — Rapta
Other than being entirely wrong Dark, good points.
- As a general rule, Ranger's should not be contributing to a spike in balanced GvG. It is merely not what they were designed to do; which is to pressure via Apply Poison, interrupt key skills (which in retrospect relieves pressure off the backline), and split at key times (forcing an unfavorable match-up/cross). The mere fact it is able to add any damage during a spike (when necessary), is quite simply amazing.
- Bleeding doesn't matter. No RC will waste energy removing bleed/poison. It is more valuable however, during a split (where no condition removal is available) or when ganking a Rt Flagger (where every point of damage means something).
- Screaming shot is pretty much shit. We are talking about hunter's. It doesn't matter anyways; on a split it should only take a few seconds to kill and NPC with vamp/apply/Mshot/Savage/Savage.
- If both skills snare, it doesn't matter (on a split). Both are about equivalent in value/reletive usefulness at the stand.
- Your Mtouch calculation doesn't make any sense. All rangers have 3 in prot by default, and RC's even more. Besides, if you are good at ranger, you will dshot touch.
- You should be using Savage on recharge (no joke) to spread poison, if not to interrupt a skill. Dshot should be used whenever it recharges (and have a relatively high success rate if you are any good). I am not going to lie; if there is a single mesmer on the opposing team, and we have a ranger, diversion better not go up more than 3 times (and all 3 better be a lucky 40/40 cast).
- Get better at ranger.
--Readem 20:36, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
I don't see the big deal over this. Laying three conditions on your target with just one skill is over powered imo. Like any other skill on the Rangers bar, just use it at the right time. Selket Shadowdancer 20:38, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Not so much overpowered, but when used correctly, it is more versatile than cripshot/BA/Magebane in GvG. --Readem 20:42, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
The thing you all need to understand (Frv, Dark, Massive) is that this is not being suggested as a better replacement to Cripshot. You'd have to be pretty dumb to say this is a better snare elite than Cripshot. What this offers is the ability to get a good cripple snare (as long as you get it up on key targets, for example flaggers and other fleeing targets on splits etc, it's not going to get removed unless they have a mtouch there) in combination with the positive points of the other skills. This has a completely different use to Cripshot, even though the effect is fairly similar, and has to be treated as such. View it as independantly of other elites (Cripshot) as you would BA or Magebane. --Tab Moo 06:24, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Fuck it. I understand why the skill is good i just dont think it is as good. I could care less, remove the vote plz.File:Dark0805 Piplup.jpg--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 13:00, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- That's why most people are voting under 5-5-5 tbh. Your votes fine iirc (cba to check again), and you can delete it yourself. --Tab Moo 13:01, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- Well its ska's and readem's 5-5 that struck me as overrating for the sake of overrating.File:Dark0805 Piplup.jpg--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 13:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- Ska is allowed to make bad votes because he flirts with me on vent. You know how pointless arguing with Readem is. --Tab Moo 13:05, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- Ska is allowed to make bad votes because he flirts with me on vent. You know how pointless arguing with Readem is. --Tab Moo
- Well its ska's and readem's 5-5 that struck me as overrating for the sake of overrating.File:Dark0805 Piplup.jpg--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 13:02, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
Then I'll pull the pH card...(75.134.131.172 02:26, 2 October 2008 (EDT))
- Well then i bring the card, that i use it ;) Beats everything.. Massive 06:23, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
Sorry to do this Skakid, but Quickshot. Pluto 04:11, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
8 Second Recharge
More pew pew now :> --Frosty
19:17, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
AAHAHAHAHAHAH EAT ME —SkaKid 19:19, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
- PEW PEW PEW. --Frosty 19:22, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
- Your vote needs to be edited again Frosty. Huynh Sanity 21:37, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
The benefit of Mel's Shot that wasn't mentioned above is how little of your energy it expends. Allows you to use Conc Shot comfortably, which creates a VERY strong and versatile split template. Zuranthium 22:51, 9 October 2008 (EDT)
- Lol even thou i run this i get low energy anytime spamming interrupt/INTERRUPTing:P >:@ Massive 08:46, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
- So then don't spam interrupts like a retard. --71.229.253.172 04:55, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
- I run into energy problems, too, and I'm not spamming rupts, I'm just rupting a lot...4 energy every 5-10 seconds, 2 every 10-15 and another 2 every 8-12, Apply is another 7 every 20 seconds, and then the rest of the bar. Maybe I should rupt less? --The preceding srsly srs comment was added by Itokaru 03:31, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- Never interrupt less. If you really need more energy, have an extra +5 energy bow in your inventory and run a major for 14exp if you really suck. moush 01:30, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
- Never interrupt less. If you really need more energy, have an extra +5 energy bow in your inventory and run a major for 14exp if you really suck.
- I run into energy problems, too, and I'm not spamming rupts, I'm just rupting a lot...4 energy every 5-10 seconds, 2 every 10-15 and another 2 every 8-12, Apply is another 7 every 20 seconds, and then the rest of the bar. Maybe I should rupt less? --The preceding srsly srs comment was added by Itokaru 03:31, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
- So then don't spam interrupts like a retard. --71.229.253.172 04:55, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
Why the wierd attributes?
What is the point of running only 13 expertise? Is it for the +2 damage, or the 1 second of cripple? Eitherway seems a bit pointless, I would rather run it with 14, 10, 10 for the nat stride and troll breakpoints. Luminarus 09:17, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
- Err...13 expertise IS the breakpoint for 5e -> 2e skills. - Generic Wiki-er 16:56, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
