Thanks Frostyyyyy, here are the up-to-date suggestions 19:25, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Chaos' Suggestion
Problem with the first bar: Energy. You don't have energy management and you have a 25 energy skill with a 3 10 energy skills.
Problem with the second bar: Energy again. You don't have energy management and you have a couple of 15 energy spells with a couple of 10 energy spells.
Although you have soul reaping, running out of energy before your opponents die result in a slowing down of vanquishing, and thus lowering the efficiency of the build in general.
I have to agree with Pika on this one. Also, you are using 2 people as healers? Just seems like overkill to me. --Drah 20:02, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Hero healers are not as good as human healers. Best to take at least 2-3, plus it's for HM, better safe than sorry.PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:04, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Take out the 4th discord bar, add Dwayna's Sorrow on the 3rd bar imo, DS takes care of heals. 4th bars is overkill healz. 20:06, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Also, heroes are notoriously bad at using FF unless you plan on microing it (which I wouldn't seeing as this is supposed to be done with as little micromanagement as possible) I would remove it. --Drah 20:08, 18 February 2009 (EST)
It's not the issue of FF in this case, you have MBAS already, which is condition removal/healing on steroids.PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:09, 18 February 2009 (EST)
No I'm just saying that heroes never even use the skill. Its a waste of a spot unless you plan on microing it. --Drah 20:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
I have seen masters use it very often. It's not the point, MBAS is enough condition removal.PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:12, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Pika's Suggestion
Wrote them up to Miniskillbars so we don't get loads of TB screens, prefer it to be mostly like this if loads of suggestions are going to be made, this way you can also update the suggestions easily instead of re uploading pics Frostypo! 19:40, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Good point frosty :D Shoulda done that >< Hmmmm... Can I re-write them as Dont's skillbars w/ attributes? ^^ 19:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
It was more of a "Is it necessary/useful?" kind of question. Shard runs fail >.< Another BDS-less run! cheer 19:50, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Actually, I'm pretty sure it was Dont's skill bars that were messing with my browser. It was trying to load all of the mini skill bar information once I reached them, creating terrible lag. --Drah 19:51, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Hmmm... Didn't lag at all for me. Maybe because I had all the info cached. Idk... 19:52, 18 February 2009 (EST)
EDIT: Drah, if you want, I'll copy-paste those bars into Dont bars and put them in an empty page to see if you lag on that as well? It might just have been the sheer size of the page... Ideas? 19:54, 18 February 2009 (EST)
I'll get working on that in about 10-15 minutes, Fendi's taking forever >.< If that's not the cause of your lag, any opposition to replacing them with the Dont bars? 19:59, 18 February 2009 (EST)
lol, and if its not then no, there shouldn't be any opposition. --Drah 20:03, 18 February 2009 (EST)
I wouldnt take hexes that benefit from prolonged duration and have long cooldowns like MoP or Rising Bile. --Anonimous. D: 20:17, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Fair enough, since you will be spiking down targets really fast. However, I kept barbs for bosses.PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:20, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Aegis is a better option for HM PvE, since your foes tend to change targets faster than you can say hello. Also, the whole point of discordway is to spam discord, sacrificing discord for support elites greatly reduce your clearing speed. Pure Was Li Ming is a poor choice in PvE unless there is a condition overload in the area you are entering, and even so, I would suggest your prot necro to run RC anyway.PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:28, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Fair enough. 6 Discords seems like overkill though, having support elites means you don't have to bring 2-3 healers. --Drah 20:30, 18 February 2009 (EST)
EDIT: also I originally had aegis in but I changed it to dwayna's sorrow. fixed. --Drah 20:32, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Well, the main damage in this build is from discord, really. The point of this build is to spike down targets hard and fast. PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)
I dont like SoR, not worth losing one Discord. --Anonimous. D: 20:35, 18 February 2009 (EST)
(EC)Problem with that is, when your party goes under pressure, they want to stop using discord and start healing (From my experience) so adding the additional discords wont change much than the initial spike. Also they should be highly spec'd into resto and soul reaping meaning that death magic is going to have a lower than optimal attribute level. @anonimous SoR can be changed. --Drah 20:38, 18 February 2009 (EST)
I beg to differ. I was betting with a friend that I could vanquish faster than him with RoJ smiters as opposed to discord spam, so we vanquished the same map(just outside kaineng center) with both discord and RoJ. Heroes would cast discord after casting 1-2 heals, which does not slow down the run considerably(RoJ won, btw).PikaFanFile:Chrismaspika sig.jpg 20:43, 18 February 2009 (EST)
"You don't need two magebanes" is kind of like saying "You don't need two penises." Of course you don't need two, but that doesn't make it any less awesome."--Relyk 20:45, 18 February 2009 (EST)
what does this have to do with anything... --Drah 20:46, 18 February 2009 (EST)
replace magebane with discord :<--Relyk 20:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
Relyk, :D been quoting my quotes? Anon, MoP + minion wall = AoE Discord. Barbs is lovely single target damage and easily doubles or triples the damage your minions do. Oh, and btw, you guys have never MM'd in your life. --—The preceding trolling attempt was made byChaos (talk) . 06:01, 19 February 2009 (EST)
Chaos, MoP + Discord = nothing because you cast MoP on them, yoiur heroes happily cast Discord, your MoP'ed target is dead good gam you just wasted 10 energy. --Anonimous. D: 11:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Shush, I'm always right. Such a horrible waste of a minion wall. --—The preceding trolling attempt was made byChaos (talk) . 11:43, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
No you arent. Discord has never been about minion wall. --Anonimous. D: 10:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
It is if one of ur necros is using curses--Relyk 10:50, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
Hexes are for discord to work, since targets die so fast theres no other purpose. In HM minions pretty much die in one hit (depending on location) so their purpose as wall is rather limited..this just from my experience ofc. (QQ)
I agree with Anonimous about MoP, for 2-man discordway. It's been my experience that targets die too fast. MoP works well in 1-man because you have more control over damage, believe it or not, 3 discorders can't kill in one volley without a caller; 6 however, can, and so MoP is wasted. I play a necro caller and I usually take barbs/MoP, but for 2 man, i swap out MoP for mark of death. Barbs is still useful for bosses, and has low recharge anyway. --Zaney 17:57, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
Para-bars
This is what I've been running. It's more durable and you have Fall Back to speed things up. Flex the Dwayna's bar for what you need/prefer (more hexes and conditions or more heals). Also, I did this in The Deep with 3 people, one as a tank, and it worked quite well. 68.180.77.16 06:10, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
Frosty po! 19:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
19:25, 18 February 2009 (EST)
20:02, 18 February 2009 (EST)
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