Talk: Team - Discordway/Archive 2

Revision as of 19:18, 29 September 2009

"Self-Sustaining?"

Are the three necro heroes here able to keep up a continual onslaught of damage by themselves? Will they be able to fuel Discord just with Enfeebling Blood, Shadow of Fear, the Jagged minions and such? The reason I'm asking is because I'm having fun abusing ritual spirits, and don't really have room/have no desire to switch out skills for Assassin's Promise, "Finish Him!," etc. I'm pretty sure that Sabway will be good with this build, because it's good with almost everything, but I just wonder if this will be more efficient. Thanks. Mithr4ndir 05:18, 1 July 2009

Sabway means you can go afk in the middle of the fight. Discord overall is probably more effective, but requires you to actually do something. You don't need those specific skills, but they do help. Having AP+YMlaD! means you can always fuel discord by yourself. Life

05:30, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

If you have a condition and a hex and can be bothered to spam ctrl+space, then Discordway is the most efficient build out there. If you don't want to have to do anything besides c-space, then take Sabway or Spiritway. ···

15:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

and then do much alt-tabbing. — μαφλεσ 15:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Minions

I'm having difficulty understanding why there is a triple minion setup. Other than minions supply energy and healing (from Dwaynas) what's the main purpose of running 2x Shambling Horrors and 1x Bone minions? Selket Shadowdancer 07:52, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Giant walls probably.

08:08, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Running 3 MMs is actually incredibly stupid. Fighting over corpses ftw. Life

08:12, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't get the minions on three bars concept either. I find its ok running on the MM and Curses Necs myself (I generally run dual Bone Minions and get about 18 minions going in corpse heavy areas), but not the main healer who should be healing not creating minions outside of spiking. I suggest taking the minions off the Restoration, and making the minion slot on the Curses optional dependant on the area you're in. Selket Shadowdancer 08:34, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Running shambling horror x3 is not terrible. Fighting over corpses? Yeah right, get real. There are a million corpses and shambling has a recharge of 25. Also, shambling alone != MM. You would need to at least add in bone minions, fiends, or horrors to call it a MM (something with low recharge). I personally run 2 MMs at 16 death, because I can, but this works too because shamblings are the sturdiest minions available. -THC

Fighting as in all using corpse exploitation skill at the same time so some will waste energy and time, not lack of corpses. Spaggage talk 18:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Shambling Horror x3 is terrible. You only need 2 minion spells max. 3 if you're feeling really hawt. ···

20:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Prof specific variants

Is it possible to leave profession specific bars (for the user) on the variants section or something?- - Shikaru Nara (talk|contribs) 02:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Bring a hex and a condition and don't be bad at ctrl+space. If you need prof specific bars, the basic form is Assassin's Promise + YMLaD + Finish Him and any 5 skills that make you kill shit easier and faster. Profession specific bars are hardly necessary. ···

06:39, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

your incredbly stupid,1 is energy,2 is Death nova, the hero cast on ALL minions death nova evan if they arent his,so let count let say 2 heroes got 3 shamb each,that is 6,and the 3rd hero got 3 aswell,that 9 death novas,rdy to blow away+as a meat shield+ the jagged horror cus bledding which is good for discord req.noobs

lolwut. Life Guardian 09:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

lolwut...condition and hex....that is all you have to do and let discord do it's thing. Minon bombing is 2ndaryX^TREME

12:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Possible build for rangers

I've been toying around with my ranger's skills and came upon this (srry for the template code): OgcTcxO7VaBym047gJm8us4QAAA It kinda works but foes with blocking skills or blind may cause some trouble Stang 19:45, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Use PvXDecode next time. Spaggage talk 19:51, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

thx dude :D Stang 21:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

next time use mini skill bar. it makes talk pages not explode. also, if you're using Dwarven Stability, make use of requires enchant skills. ···

03:29, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

DS seems to be a waste here since AP will just recharge everything. Take Ural's Hammer or "I'm the Strongest!" or something.

03:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The video

Lol, you actually had requests for a Discordway video? Who doesn't know how to do discordway? Also, the video is pretty lolworthy as well. 16:07, 31 July 2009

I was about to call you and ass for dissing people's art form but I have to agree with you on this one.--XTREME 18:49, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

And this doesn't make you a troll how? Also, worship KJ, he's one of the few people on PvX with lolattitude :o You can't say you don't love Happy Banana (comes for you at night & cums in yer faec!) ---Ch aos- 21:27, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

And his cum is YELLOW! Chaos, where the fuck have you been? And tbh, I've been a douche on here lately....so he's pretty valid for calling me on it.

22:10, 31 July 2009

Been travelling pretty much the whole summer, and haven't had much interest in GW with the lack of neat skill updates, but now I'll see if I can find some interest for GW again ;o with people like Xtreme here I don't wonder why you've been a douche :DDD I've been watching from the shadows ;o I know. ---Ch aos- 11:08, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

11/10 on the video, seriously. Athrun Feya

RwrRr 11:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

KJ dosen't need me to be a douche....he was a douche before. But hey whatever excuse you want to use and condone his contributions. Like a cancer he grows and gets others to jump on (this is where you say I brought it on myself).--XTREME 12:10, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

^This one goes to eleven. ---

-- (contribs) (talk) 12:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Tbh I still haven't met a person that KJ mocks without a reason. I'm a douche myself, and a bad player, but after stalking around enough I've developed some sense of when, where and what to say.. Needs more self-consciousness. ---Ch aos- 12:50, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Oh there've been plenty of times when people didn't deserve it, I'm sure. But lol at X repeatedly calling me a cancer. I can't wait for the day Luke Johnson quits and X officially takes over his role of resident autist of PvX. --

15:06, 1 August 2009

Nooo! ---

-- (contribs) (talk) 15:17, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

KJ, can you seriously say that anyone who willingly does anything on PvX doesn't deserve crappy treatment? ;o---Ch aos- 15:39, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

I can't wait til people realize what a 2 face bitch you are KJ. But keep everyone guessing. I am far from Luke status and just cause you say it dosen't make it so. Just so you know my mo...I don't care on what you say or how people follow it. What is the term? lolPVX.--XTREME 17:01, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

As for the build it rocks!.--XTREME 17:02, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

LOL. Your grammar continues to prove my point....it's beautiful. Btw, this is hardly the place to continue this conversation. If you wish to continue to *attempt* to insult me, please do so on my talk page.

21:26, 1 August 2009

That video breaks the article and needs to be removed ASAP./sarcasm --Carnivorous Cupcake

23:22, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, most of it is recruiting for his guild/alliance and random rambling. The rest provides a little information about Discordway but is generally jsut entertaining because it's so retarded. Athrun

Feya 23:33, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Only if he has room...lol.--XTREME 03:12, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

OMG mainbar Masochism

Please? Majikmajikmajik 06:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

This is true, i shall work on it. Life Guardian 06:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Prolly replace PwK.

moo big, there was a skill update. still, two extra points in death versus losing skills currently on the heroes, plus health sac for everything, isn't really worth it. — μαφλεσ 07:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You didnt lose anything big anyways, and 2 points makes a surprisingly large impact through discord, minion level, death nova damage, and energy management. The health sac is hardly noticable. Life Guardian 07:40, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

at least don't replace PwK. tbh, i'm not so sure that the constant health saccing would be noticeable one way or the other. have you tested yet? — μαφλεσ 08:01, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Yep, the extra points in death make shit blow up, and you can drop SoLS(depending on build) because of the extra points in SR. I would NEVER replace PwK, Zyke is a fucking autist. Easiest way i saw to counter the health loss was with recup, so i replaced recovery with it and now it's all good. Your heroes only lose ~20-25 health per cast anyways. Life Guardian 08:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd replace PWK. Loosing your weapon bonuses jusr for 10 armor isn't worth it and you already have Dwayna's for party heal thats enough. --Carnivorous Cupcake

09:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Despite the obv leetness of PwK, it's had its recharge nerfed and survival isn't anyways the biggest issue in PvE ;'D with bigger minions and more damage it might compensate much/more than all of it. And as he said, you get to have weapons. ---Ch aos- 10:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Leetness has almost gone when it stopped giving 24 armor bonus and having 15 recharge. :( --Carnivorous Cupcake

10:55, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

PwK is still useful. The damage from mascochism isn't very noticable - it is similar to what you take in Gate of Pain mission (if you do find it a problem, a bit of full-party mending - recuperation - easily heals over). Athrun

Feya 11:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The sac is not really anything compared to the buffs it gives. 2 SR gains from masochism alreday repays the health loss x5 ---Ch aos- 11:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I use Rejuvenation instead of recup. It gives roughly the same regen as recup but costs less and you can have lower restoration magic level. :p --Carnivorous Cupcake

11:51, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, Vigorous Spirit works mega wonders. :) --Carnivorous Cupcake

11:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

hey, I don't like how four of you basically repeated the exact same thing that Life said. good going. — μαφλεσ 15:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Ah, because I told Life basically what he said in game and didn't bother reading. Athrun

Feya 16:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

lol

bunch of terrible shitters. take masochism on only the MM and stop being autists. ··· 16:46, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The extra SR and damage is so amazing though :( You can't even tell that they're saccing health. Life Guardian 20:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You mean the extra 10 damage and the extra 2 energy on an already full blue bar? ···

20:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Whats wrong with gaining 2 more energy and 10 more damage? ^^ --Carnivorous Cupcake

20:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

the fact that 3% of your health is 15-18, meaning you're taking more damage than you're dealing, and you're using what energy you get to heal what you sac. you're really better off taking SoLS or some shit. ···

20:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

cause spamming blood of the master with no minions will kill you?--Relyk 21:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

what does botm have to do with anything here? ···

21:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

analogy of saccing, 10 damage is nothing--Relyk 21:52, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

you do know that you are only doing 10 extra damage also right? Drahgal Meir 21:54, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Thats 30 total! Plus it's better energy, stonger minions, death nova, etc. Life Guardian 22:12, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Also, Recup, Rejuv, Vigorous. --Carnivorous Cupcake

22:41, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

tbh stronger minions is the only legitimate reason. — μαφλεσ 22:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

HM Flesh Golem anyone?--Ikimono"My beard is thick."

23:15, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

this is retarted, who in their right mind would replace masochism with signet of lost souls, Masochism only gives 6 energy every 15 seconds, signet of lost souls gives easily more energy than that, SOS heals you significantly whereas masochism damages you, do not take this terrible skill for the extra 10 damage, its not worth it.

SoLS is actually completely unnecessary on a discord bar. However, taking Maso on the healer probably isnt needed. Life Guardian 03:07, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Alright, debating on switching skills 2,3, and 8 on the first two bars. Life Guardian 03:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

i am 100% wit danny on this ... maso is fuckin retarded ... how come anet thinks +2 on anything will make every one orgasm over an update ... SoLS is sooooo much better ... you all can use maso but yeah im still stickin with SoLS or not takin either lol ... that 10 dmg is better then shadow form ... Ecro talk 23:46, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

The end point is there is no reason why you need to have signet of lost souls on a discord bar since monsters die retardedly quick in the fist place. Stronger minions, a little more damage, and 1 more energy gained on death- outweights the health gain you get from SoLS (imo)--Ikimono"My beard is thick."

01:32, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

You ever fight a group of Stone Summit in HM? SoLS is the only reason your healer has a blue bar half the time. Masochism is wonderful on the MM. On the Enfeeble, take a hard rez or an extra heal. On the Resto, take SoLS or an extra heal. ···

16:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

you don't want strong minions on any of these characters, you want them to blow up ASAP, SOLS gives more energy than Masochism and heals instead of hurts. The one extra minion and the +10 damage to death nova and discord are insignificant compared to the damage you will be taking as a result of this (around 15 per skill)if enemies are dieing so fast you don't "need it" then why the hell would you change the build???-the king

sig of deadly corruption

since you already have 12 deadly arts? it needs conditions for dmg, and so doesnt discord so that condition is met. plus it's a signet so not a waste of energy. basically an extra discord. variants? Sir Nothing 03:32, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe we stopped listing the caller variants, but yes, it is definitely a variant and probably mainbar. Life Guard

ian 03:37, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

By the time you actually have the chance to use it your target will most likely already be dead. 86.1.180.54 01:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

This hero and player combination can deal loads of armor ignoring damage with Discord while hexing and conditioning foes, making it perfect for any Hard Mode job.

Major Changes

/ Player

/ Big Heals Life discord

/ Curse Recuperation discord

/ Protter discord

Optional is convert Hexes or Aegis depending on the situation

Reason for these changes: Signet of lost souls is only needed on the recup necro

Recup is superior too recovery because there are already two mend body and souls, energy is fine on the other characters.

Animate shambling Horror has too long of a recharge, the MM with Animate shambling will never get more than two or three minions with this skill which means fewer bombs, Animate bone minions is the superior skill here. With two Animate bone minions you can also get a considerable minion

spirit bond is better than Prot spirit in discordway, in HM especially almost every hit will give +80 health, and if their not hitting for around 50-60 then prot spirit isn't doing anything either.

Death pact signet is better than Flesh of my flesh, if the person who was rezzed dies in under two minutes then you are going to wipe anyway and you avoided the extra DP, Flesh of my flesh means you both have no energy and relatively low HP as well. The faster cast time also makes a difference.

spirit transfer instead of ghostmirror light well thats just kind of obvious... it heals for a lot more and you will always have at least one spirit up. heroes can also trigger party heals using this if they see that the spirits are taking damage

Shield of Absorption prevents ridiculous amounts of damage and needs to be on the protters bar in some form.

Masochism is a bad skill for Discordway, taking 15 damage whenever you use a skill is not worth the 6 energy every 15 seconds and the marginal extra damage. It is also easily stripped since this build doesn't have very many cover enchantments

-The King

Personally I put my minions on my Curses Necro and not my Restoration Necro. Seems the Restoration Necro has higher spec in Restoration it makes sense he spends more time healing and spiking than raising minions (I see the Curses Necro as more of a utility character). I actually agree with using Animate Bone Minions x2 though. You can get a large army up pretty quickly. Masochism should stay on your bar though, it's extra damage, extra energy, and more minions. I haven't found the minor health loss to be an issue at all. I run a completely different MM though with Foul Feast and Infuse Condition which allows me to bring bigger heals. I don't really bother with resurrect spells unless it's a high end area in which I'll switch up a little.

Selket Shadowdancer 08:30, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

spirit light healing ftw--Relyk 08:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I quite like selkets builds, but would be tempted to change the second bar to something with prot. Heroes bars have terrible prot skills which they don't know how to use.

Athrun

Feya 08:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You could quite easily run Aegis and Protective Spirit on the Curses Necro. I've done it before and that works too. I normally throw a form of hex removal in if I run protection on the Curses Necro. I do find with the previously posted build of mine that big protection isn't needed as much as there's bigger healing from dual Spirit Light and a higher specced Dwaynas Sorrow.

Selket Shadowdancer 09:08, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

i like prot spirit there better--Relyk 09:12, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

I do too it's a nicer attribute spread. This is the full bars with attributes included.

Restoration Healer <pvxbig> [build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Ghostmirror Light][Weapon of Warding][Life][Signet of Lost Souls][Flesh of My Flesh][/build] </pvxbig>

Dwaynas Bomber <pvxbig> [build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 heal=10][Masochism][Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Foul Feast][Infuse Condition][Dwaynas Sorrow][/build] </pvxbig>

Curses Protection <pvxbig> [build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 cur=7+1 prot=8][Masochism][Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Enfeebling Blood][Shadow of Fear][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Reverse Hex][/build] </pvxbig>

Selket Shadowdancer 09:19, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Why dual MM? They would fight for corpses and spammable minion spells tend to greatly distract your discords from discording so having the spell on just one of your necs is enough imo. I personally like to bring just one MM with BotM, bringing 10-11 healthy minions to the next battle is just as good as bringing 11+ dead ones. --Carnivorous Cupcake

09:36, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Depends on how corpse heavy the area is. I find that the more minions you have the better your energy and healing from Dwaynas is, aswell as bombing. Corpse fighting isn't an issue (not with dual). Also you should bind Discord for spikes (at least I do anyway). Selket Shadowdancer 09:41, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

With 10 spec Dwayna's and a single MM you can potentially have 350-375 points of party heal running around. Personally, I think that it's enough. I bind my Discord to keyboard too but I wont order them to spike when they are casting animate spells or they would cancel the casting throwing some 15 energy owt of the window. --Carnivorous Cupcake

09:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Personally having upto double that amount of healing is even better. I've lost count of the amount of times I've ran around areas with 18+ minions. It's simply a matter of whether the area you're in supports mass corpse reanimation or not. Most of the time the heroes are busy doing their own thing enough to not be fighting over corpses when raising minions. Selket Shadowdancer 10:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

holy fuck you guys are terrible at this game. ··· 16:43, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Hardly. Selket Shadowdancer 17:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

and what in particular makes us terrible? --Carnivorous Cupcake

01:06, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Monk Player

This is the Build that I came up with for my Monk: <pvxbig> [build prof=Mo/A Smiting=12+1+1 Deadly=12][Assassins Promise][Death's Charge]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"][Stonesoul Strike][Iron Palm][Holy Strike][Finish Him][Shadow Sanctuary][/build] </pvxbig> User:Thonyonline 21:26, 24 august 2009 (CET)

Too energy intensive imo. You also dont deal much more damage than a normal AP caller. :/ --Carnivorous Cupcake

15:43, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

No excuse for no Sig of Deadly Corruption now, imo 86.134.211.13

Castigation Signet...--Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man"

15:17, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

<pvxbig> [build prof=Mo/A Smiting=12+1+1 Deadly=12][Assassins Promise]["You Move Like a Dwarf!"][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Finish Him][Castigation Signet][][][Rebirth][/build] </pvxbig> If you're fighting Plagueborn, Lift Enchantment to remove shadowform ;O --Ikimono"Mutton Chop Man" 15:23, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

explain

You may want to switch "You Move Like a Dwarf" with "Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support"--X 00:04, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

You wouldn't, so gogo revert, which i already did. Life Guardian 00:07, September 23, 2009 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{TOCright}}
-Any comments and changes would be appreciated (and yes i forgot to log in...) [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 12:50, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
-:Shouldn't it be "Weakener" and not "Weaker"? [[User Talk:Infidel|<font color="black">̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡<u>͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡</u></font>]][[User:Infidel|<font color="darkgreen"><u>I͡n͡f͡i͡d͡e͡l</u></font>]][[User Talk:Infidel|<font color="black"><u>̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|</u>̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı__̡͌l̡*</font>]] 00:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-Now that Discord has a one second activation time i think you should switch Mind Bender it out for a better PvE skill. if shadow of fear 2 sec activation seems like a problem switch it for something like the already mentioned suffering or Pbond. [[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 04:31, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-:Discord used to have 2 seconds activation. It was buffed. - {{User:Misery/sig2 subst}} 04:46, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-:: i know, thats why i typed 'now that'. [[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 05:01, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-:::Why would you want to stop using it because it was buffed? Do you mean switch out Necrosis? Discord still has a 2 second recharge, so does necrosis. This way you can spam spam spam more. Necrosis only does slightly less damage, even with aftercast I think you'd win. - {{User:Misery/sig2 subst}} 06:36, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-:::: i meant switch out Mind Bender, sorry typed it wrong ;), Mind Bender is still useful but so are lots of other PvE only skills.[[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 12:43, 30 May 2008 (EDT)
-*Weapon of Warding>Resilient with all that condition removal
-*Mend Body and Soul>Vengeful Weapon
-*The minion bomber should be necro primary to have a hope of maintaining energy.
-*Infuse Condition isn't useful there because it doesn't have any form of draw and isn't meant to be tanking.
-[[User:Klumpeet|<font color="#000">'''&not; Klump'''</font>]][[User_talk:Klumpeet|<span style="font-size: 11px; color:#006500">'''eet'''</span>]] 07:36<small>{GMT}</small>31-05-<font face="Times">MMVIII</font>
-: I also think a normal necro MM is better, i use that myself but haven't tried the rit one so not commenting about it. Resilient weapon is great for its armor, since you will have almost only low armor partymembers, and Mend Body and Soul>Vengeful Weapon really depends on the situation. Btw, signet of lost souls overkill imo since you already have SR and a minion bomber. [[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 04:29, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
-::I don't really have a problem with having a N/Rt Bomber, although I would take out Discord for Jagged Bones, Infuse Condition for Animate Shambling Horror and possibly find room for Spirit's Gift (for lots of small heals for your Minions). Some skills to consider for your Rt/Ns would be Protective Was Kaolai, Pure Was Li Ming and Weapon of Shadow. -[[User:St. Michael|Mike]] 08:53, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
-::: I tried all of these but jagged bones isn't neccesary, animate bone minions is more than enought. one shambling horrors isnt enought, tried taking shambling on 2-3 necro but then they all cast it at same time which greatly lowers efficiency. infuse conditions isn't worth taking i agree. i also took PwK on every N/Rt, works really really well. another advantage of a necro Minion bomber is that you have room for a secondary, creating room for the always useful Protective Spirit. [[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 10:01, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
-::::I agree on you guys, i think i'll switch the bomber to n/mo with aegis, PS and SoA, and PwK isnt that bad idea to have on 1 n/rt [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 15:03, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
-== Variant ==
-I've been using this for HM:
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Assassin's Promise|"Finish Him!"|"You Move Like a Dwarf!"|Necrosis|Enfeebling Blood|Mark of Pain|Optional|Optional}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Signet of Lost Souls|Putrid Bile|Animate Shambling Horror|Rip Enchantment|Patient Spirit|Healing Ring|Infuse Health}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Signet of Lost Souls|Putrid Bile|Animate Shambling Horror|Blood of the Master|Patient Spirit|Healing Ring|Healing Whisper}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Signet of Lost Souls|Putrid Bile|Animate Shambling Horror|Death Nova|Patient Spirit|Healing Ring|Vengeance}}
-Kills fast. Insane single-target damage, lots of aoe. I wouldn't really recommend Assassin's Promise without some good PvE skills to go with it though. Thought about switching the necs to N/Rt's but meh, haven't really messed around with it so far. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 18:00, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
-:Vengance =P --[[User:Fallen|<font color="Black">'''Fallen'''</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Fallen|''<font color="Blue">talk</font>'']])</small> 18:22, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
-::It's like a temp res - by the time the 30secs is over, the battle is usually almost done and the death is a free corpse. As for the posted build:  I'd put Enfeebling Blood on the human player - the player will always use it better than a hero, and that's important because of how much damage it reduces. I'd just drop Weaken Armor, but put it on a hero if you really want it. Too many res skills imo. Use 1 or 2, but 3 is abit overkill. At least put Death Pact Sig on one of them. I'd take Rising Bile off the human bar - the 20secs is abit too long for PvE and the target might be dead by then, or the aoe damage won't even do anything by the time it does trigger....Replace with Putrid Bile. Replace the Res too....the human player should be taking advantage of all 8 skills, not 7 + a res. Not sure about Rotting Flesh - I never liked it in PvE, but I also haven't tried it out for a Discord team build, so I can't really comment on it. A few people bash Discord in PvE for being single-target damage, but it's also in a line with plenty of aoe. The human bar can change to something else and bring more aoe if needed. The strength of high single-target damage is being able to kill specific threats alot easier in HM. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 07:35, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
-:::^^What he said. Rotting Flesh is good though, as most PvE enemies aren't human, meaning no drawback. Plus it helps getting conditions on every, thus making Discord almost unconditional. But, in all honesty, Sab-way is much better.--[[User:Fallen|<font color="Black">'''Fallen'''</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Fallen|''<font color="Blue">talk</font>'']])</small> 12:37, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
-::::Indeed, as opposed to [[user:Droks|Dorks]], oops, Droks who trolls vengeance in pvp builds in a time of heavy enchantment removal meta in pve the skill after it's buff would prove very helpful as it unconditionally resurrects with full health ''and'' energy preventing further dp also, it is good. As for enfeebling on the second nec indeed, I doubt heroes chaining this skill well infact you invest alot of points in curses for the sake of one skill having a curse necro elready. --'''[[User:Tiger|<font face="Forte" color="OrangeRed">Tiger</font>]]''' [[Image:Tiger's Fury Tigrr.jpg|19px]] '''''[[User talk:Tiger|<font color="Black"><small>grrr!!</small></font>]]''''' 12:46, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
-:::::Discord teams arn't really comparable to "Sabway" (which really is just a compiled setup of old builds) in anyway, except that there's 3 necs. Sabway relies alot more on minions to do damage. It has almost no direct damage at all. SS is pretty bad on a hero since they'll rarely ever use it on the best targets. With Discord x3, you have pretty much enough damage to pick out any enemy from a mob and have it dead right there. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 17:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
-::::::Well, I run DB/MB on my sin, and coupled with Sab's stuff and physical henches, I clear mobs before Crit Agility recharges. That's really all I care about. I just don't see Discord having the same affect. I'm all for trying it when my account is unbanned, but I'm always going to abide by some variation of Sab's build.--[[User:Fallen|<font color="Black">'''Fallen'''</font>]] <small>([[User talk:Fallen|''<font color="Blue">talk</font>'']])</small> 23:31, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
-I'll give this variant a try soon, looks odd but who knows,could be just as effective or even better! [[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 15:51, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
-:An x/A with Assassin's Promise should be just as good, or even better in some situations....Cry of Pain spam > mobs. An Assacaster could also fit the role and would still have it's 2ndary open. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 00:01, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
-::This really works out very well, you only need the first 3 skills and hero's will finish it, as for bosses, it still lasts long enough :), i'll give it a try with putrid explosion soon [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 05:34, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
-:::But Just use N/Rt healers, that works way better than healing prayer N/Mo. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 12:44, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
-== Do not hack your game ==
-Prot - 9+1 on a primary necromancer would be impossible without hacking the game I assume, unfortunately it is against the rules. :) --'''[[User:Tiger|<font face="Forte" color="OrangeRed">Tiger</font>]]''' [[Image:Tiger's Fury Tigrr.jpg|19px]] '''''[[User talk:Tiger|<font color="Black"><small>grrr!!</small></font>]]''''' 12:50, 15 June 2008 (EDT)
-:Common hat, prot wand. [[Special:Contributions/99.242.229.12|99.242.229.12]] 22:39, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
-== Did anyone who rated it 0-1 actually tried it? ==
-As i see, you guys think it's 'sabway' with discord as elite, it isn't as it's a normal minion bomber with 2 half n/rt healers from HA, nothing sab's on that. [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 15:23, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
-: yeh people crying about single target damage < Aoe clearly haven't tried this.[[User:Watch me work it|Watch me work it]] 15:53, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
-::The people complaining about single-target damage don't seem to know what Death Nova or Putrid Bile do. If you don't want minions, Putrid Explosion whoops pretty hard too. The people trying to compare this to Sabway have never stepped into HA. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 00:01, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
-== Variant ==
-I've been trying some things with the Assassin's Promise variant and i figured out that his works the best:
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Assassin's Promise|"Finish Him!"|"You Move Like a Dwarf!"|Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support|Enfeebling Blood|Suffering|Insidious Parasite|Resurrection Signet}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Animate Bone Minions|Death Nova|Signet of Lost Souls|Dwayna's Sorrow|Aegis|Protective Spirit|Shield of Absorption|Signet of Lost Souls}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Putrid Bile|Rotting Flesh|Protective Was Kaolai|Spirit Light|Signet of Lost Souls|Life|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Putrid Bile|Animate Shambling Horror|Spirit Light|Mend Body and Soul|Signet of Lost Souls|Recovery|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-The 3 curses spells on the main player are more a backup, you need only the first 4 skills, the rest is obvious :) [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 04:17, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
-:Looks good, heroes know how to use Dwayna's Sorrow? [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 05:11, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
-::Yup, they use it on minions and when they go boom you get 20 health for each minion that was effected :) [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 06:59, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
-One Putrid Bile is enough imo. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 07:30, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
-:You get more AoE with 2 putrids as it has 12 seconds recharge [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 08:04, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
-::I suggest making this variant the main build, it's better in most situations, and though I don't agree entirely on the skills on the heroes, thats just detail. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 13:53, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
-Just did Ring of Fire HM with this build and it worked very well! I even wasn't infused and had no big problems :D [[User:78.49.29.192|78.49.29.192]] 16:55, 25 October 2008 (EDT)
-== Yet another "Variant" ==
-OKhere's what I've been using since... well it's been a long time. But anyway, it is way more aggressive than the build with the 2 N/rts (I don't know why there is 2 TBH but w/e).
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Assassin's Promise|"Finish Him!"|Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support|Mindbender|Enfeebling Blood|Putrid Bile|Malign Intervention|Resurrection Signet}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Animate Shambling Horror|Verata's Gaze|Blood of the Master|Dwayna's Sorrow|Malign Intervention|Protective Spirit|Vengeance|Enfeebling Blood}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Animate Shambling Horror|Verata's Gaze|Death Nova|Malign Intervention|Rip Enchantment|Enfeeble|Dwayna's Sorrow}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Life|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|Protective Was Kaolai|Enfeebling Blood|Foul Feast|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-Mind bender is optional really but I really like how fast things go with it.
-It can tank a lot, and even one of the MM's death isn't a critical mistake. Since most of the builds posted here seem to focus on fleshy areas, malign intervention is totally the way to go if you want a hex. You get a hex, 20% reduction, a minion for 5e, and if it dies, soul reaping. You can even cast assassin's promise at the end of a fight if you haven't on the last mob, just be carefull not to turn it ally then.
-Note that this build totally sucks in non fleshy area, and it was not designed for that anyway.
-I know, Vengeance, but it used to be a res sig so replace it if needed.
-I never use the res sig either so it could be replaced by whatever. [[User:88.169.112.155|88.169.112.155]] 06:43, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
-:I stopped looking after seeing you had Vengeance... <font face=chick>[[User:Godliest|<font color="purple">'''God'''</font>]][[User_talk:Godliest|<font color="pink">'''box'''</font>]]</font> [[image:GodlyCompanion-cube.jpg|20px]] 06:55, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
-::And thats why I said you could replace it by whatever res you want. [[User:88.169.112.155|88.169.112.155]] 09:24, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
-:::2 N/Rt is a win/win situation, killing isn't a problem so why not bring some more heals yeh?, and bring you move like a dwarf it's one of the best skills in-game especially if you can spam it every 3 sec orso.  [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 06:17, 4 July 2008 (EDT)
-== MM ==
-Get rid of Dwayna's Sorrow, just use the Sabway MM layout.--[[Image:Relyk Purifying Veil Sig.jpg|19px]][[User:Relyk|<font color="99CCFF">'''R<small>ELYK</small>''' </font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<small><font color="CCCCFF">ʞlɐʇ ʎɯ</font></small>]] 20:59, 12 July 2008 (EDT)<br>
-Did anyone notice the 3 necros trying to cast minions at a corpse at the same time, then 2 would fail? [[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 11:52, 17 February 2009 (EST)
-== Player ==
-The build is impossible without the hacking again :P
-pve skills in 1 bar isnt possible without hacking <small>&mdash;''The preceding [[PvXwiki:Sign your comments|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User talk:80.203.43.44|80.203.43.44]] ([[Special:Contributions/80.203.43.44|contribs]]) .</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned-->
-:Fixed. <font face=chick>[[User:Godliest|<font color="purple">'''God'''</font>]][[User_talk:Godliest|<font color="pink">'''box'''</font>]]</font> [[image:GodlyCompanion-cube.jpg|20px]] 07:14, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
-::Smooth criminal in warriors optional skills is impossible as well. [[User:Gunnm|Gunnm]] 12:57, 28 January 2009 (EST)
-:::Geez what is it with people and 'hacking' can't we assume that that's impossible and just say someone goofed up the skill points again :) --[[Special:Contributions/82.70.173.139|82.70.173.139]] 00:35, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-== Variant ==
-Just keep the heroes the same and let the player choose his primary and secondary, make it more like a group of heroes kinda like sabway that vanquish anything, just get rid of the build that the player should use and add it in variants, cause i think it would be better if it wasnt a necro build, but a hero build, other wise you could just title this Build: N/any Discord Spam Team.--[[User:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Fire'''</font>]] [[Image:Mudkip.png|19px]] [[User talk:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Tock'''</font>]]<small><sup> [[User:The Gates Assassin/A Team with Fire Tock|<font color="orange">herd yuo liek mudkipz.</font>]]</sup></small> 18:46, 13 July 2008 (EDT)
-:I agree with that, as i use a N/A (player) just for assassins promise, and watch me and i thought about other things with other professions that are also nice. [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 03:36, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
-:: I say leave it as it is, if people cant figure out that they can change a build in the team they shouldent get a better build. I'm using Me/Any for DW and it kills faster ^^ [[User:Dumazz|Dumazz]] 11:38, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
-:::Phantom Pain + Shatter delusions can be painfull too, and with that you still have alot of place for almost anything :), as i said, the player has alot of room for his own ideas, you probably don't even need to take something that synchronizes with the build, only need to call a target (though bringing up a hex+condition at a target + calling it works good) [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 12:11, 14 July 2008 (EDT)
-::::ok, then i'l just put in variants that you dont need to be a primary necro and can just use the heroes with another build.--[[User:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Fire'''</font>]] [[Image:Mudkipz TNP.gif|19px]] [[User talk:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Tock'''</font>]]<small><sup> [[User:The Gates Assassin/A Team with Fire Tock|<font color="orange">herd yuo liek mudkipz.</font>]]</sup></small> 09:40, 15 July 2008 (EDT)
-::::: My bar if anyone need it {{scalable skill bar|35px|Optional|Stolen Speed|Shrinking Armor|Phantom Pain|Shatter Delusions|Ethereal Burden|Kitah's Burden|Resurrection Signet}}
-::::: Just use 2 for a hex, and to speed up the next spells, then 3 or 4 followed by 5 for a condition. 6 and 7 is just extra hexes and E-management [[User:Dumazz|Dumazz]] 04:16, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
-<br>
-What if we just put in a bar for every profession? [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 06:01, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
-:Ooh, i got the perfect one, {{mini skill bar|Ursan Blessing}}--[[User:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Fire'''</font>]] [[Image:Mudkipz TNP.gif|19px]] [[User talk:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Tock'''</font>]]<small><sup> [[User:The Gates Assassin/A Team with Fire Tock|<font color="orange">herd yuo liek mudkipz.</font>]]</sup></small> 09:38, 16 July 2008 (EDT)
-:: or you could just do this...
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=any/N death=12 cur=12][Discord][Necrosis][Pain Inverter][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Mindbender][Resurrection Signet][/build]
-</pvxbig>
---[[User:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Fire'''</font>]] [[Image:Mudkipz TNP.gif|19px]] [[User talk:Fire Tock|<font color=lightblue>'''Tock'''</font>]]<small><sup> [[User:The Gates Assassin/A Team with Fire Tock|<font color="orange">herd yuo liek mudkipz.</font>]]</sup></small> 09:40, 16 July 2008 (EDT)<br>
-Because thats going to work with non primary necros, 14 death magic.
-:yeah-huh!!!!
-::This is pretty much what i have been running on my (primary necro) to vanquish eye of the north + some of the dungeons and it is working great :) Once you are runed up and off into battle you wont regret it... [[User:T1Cybernetic|T1Cybernetic]] 06:36, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
-==other professions==
-hey guys I use a paragon ALWAYS.  I vanquish alot and do guardian, and im getting bored of sab-way and paraway.  This build has been looking pretty interesting to me, but i dont want to waste money getting my heroes runes and equipment for the discord spam build because I am not sure how well it will work if I am running a paragon primary (always an imbagon).  That any/N bar above will probably not work cause paragons dont have good energy management without shouts, so I was wondering if one of you might be able to post a paraogn build for me.  Thanks[[User:Klomi|Klomi]] 13:51, 23 July 2008 (EDT)
-:give your heroes some hexes like suffering and Parasitic bond so you only have to take care of the conditions, barbed spear could be good. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 04:07, 24 July 2008 (EDT)
-== Another Variant, Dervish/Necro Specifically ==
-I love using this build with my Necro primary character, however my Dervish is whom I have worked the most on and wanted to use this build with said toon.  And this is purely as an alternative to the */N Discord spammer above since I haven't finished Factions and couldn't be bothered to pay for an Elite Tome for Discord.
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=D/N myst=10+1 cur=12 scythe=8+1][Avatar of Lyssa][Enfeebling Blood][Weaken Armor][Shadow of Fear][Mindbender][Pain Inverter][Eternal Aura][Faithful Intervention][/build]
-</pvxbig>
-So, I guess this variant (along with a +15 staff with 20% Ench / +30 depending on your choice of flavour) gives the derv an abundance of energy, and ability to recharge AoL quickly to keep up the mana count.  That and enchants running out = more energy back and minor healing.  And a bit more oomph to attacks if you decide to swap out to a Scythe when energy runs a bit dry.  Just a thought. [[User:Sureshot|Sureshot]] 19:21, 8 August 2008 (EDT)
-:I recommend using withering aura. especially on a dervish powered by enchants. Bring mystic sweep then [[User:88.169.112.155|88.169.112.155]] 05:26, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
-::remove Pain Inverter for Signet of Corruption--[[Special:Contributions/74.70.73.106|74.70.73.106]] 21:42, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
-== Asuran Scan ==
-sec cast. Phys clases got a good hex to use with this now. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 20:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
-:Imo you should change the human to x/A and have assassin's promise, YMLaD, and Finish him, and suggest options for the open skills, considering that would work on almost any class [[User:Driggy bowmaster|Driggy]] 19:52, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
-:: we all know that, but smurf minions is lazy and so is everyone else.[[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 06:06, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
-:::lol alright, just trying to help and it did look like it had already been suggested enough times... dunno why i took the time to edit but i did anyways (boredom) [[User:Driggy bowmaster|Driggy]] 00:20, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
-::::You can edit yourself you know? :P [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 05:43, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
-:::::wounding strike+asuran scan = DW+easy call+ discord reqs met. gg.--[[Special:Contributions/136.165.5.227|136.165.5.227]] 11:00, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
-== Optionals ==
-I've edited the players bar, and posted some options for the primary profession, if you have anymore ideas just add them. [[User:Smurf Minions|Smurf Minions]] 05:59, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
-:What about replacing "You Move Like a Dwarf!" with [[gww:Technobabble|Technobabble]]? [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 00:08, 11 December 2008 (EST)
-== HERO ==
-tag should be added since it is more of a hero team then a player team [[User:Majikmajikmajik|Majikmajikmajik]] 22:55, 12 September 2008 (EDT)
-== [[Build:N/any Hybrid MoP MM]] ==
-Would synergize greatly with this team and a party full of physicals. [[User:I Am Jebus|<font color=blue>I]] [[User talk:I Am Jebus|<font color=red>is</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/I Am Jebus|<font color=gold>*<font color=green>Je<font size=1>b</font>us<font color=gold>*</font>]][[image:IAmJebussig3.jpg|19px]]</font></font></font><font size=0.5>[[User:I Am Jebus/Contests|Enter my contests!]]</font> 15:42, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
-: would also sync with the ebon assassins [[User:Majikmajikmajik|Majikmajikmajik]] 22:45, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
-::The Ebon Sin has horrible AI - if you cast it on somethin that's adjacent to another enemy, the chances of it attacking your target are really really low. So it actually has bad synergy with MoP. I stopped using it cause of that. If you're playing as primary Nec, you can bring MoP yourself since it'll be recharged by AP. Without it, the 20sec recharge on it is pretty bad. Even worse on a hero. If you really wanna use it, just drop the Restor points from one of the necs and spec into Curses then add it along with Enfeebling Blood. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 18:30, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
-== Easy caller for any professions ==
-"You Move Like a Dwarf!" + Assassin's Promise can be used on any profession to make a strong caller.  All the other player builds on this page are too energy intensive for Warriors and Paragons. [[User:Teutonic|Teutonic]] 16:33, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
-:This is meant for casters. If you're a Warrior, you should just run Sabway. If you're a Paragon, run Racnothway. --[[Image:GoD_Hammer_and_Sickle.jpg|19px]] '''<small style="font-variant:small-caps;font-family:Verdana;border-style:solid;border-width:2px;border-color:red;background-color:gold;padding:0px 5px 1px 6px;">[[user:Guild of Deals|<span style="color:red;">Guild</span>]] [[user talk:Guild of Deals|<span style="color:red;">of</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Guild of Deals|<span style="color:red;">Deals</span>]]</small>''' 16:35, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
-::Withering Aura + Asuran Scan. Now melee classes can run Discord heroes. Btw, Sab/Racway are far from being the best choices. [[User:P A R A S I T I C|P A R A S I T I C]] 06:27, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
-==sub par bars==
-Animate shambling horrors???  Because even if you micro it, competing for bodies with the MM is a good thing, right?  Variant at best.  Enfeebling blood is easily better than rotting flesh, and only 9 resto????  And why is there no fish hex?  No foul feast.  1 MBaS is not enough...--[[User:72.130.220.204|72.130.220.204]] 19:44, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
-There are too many complaints about this build being too energy intensive for Paragons and Warriors.  If it is not for Paragons and Warriors please dont fake it and state that it is for ALL PROFESSIONS, otherwise do some energy calculations and convince us how all 3 10e PvE skills can work for my them.  This is obviously a caster build, my warrior doesn't need all these minion protection because he would be in the front lines.  And no enfeebling blood and splinter weapon?  There are too many problems with this build. [[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 11:42, 12 November 2008 (EST)
-:Haven't you heard? Warriors with staves are the new meta!! Oh and yeh, fuck minions!! We don't want no attacking wall protecting the rest of the team! The worior will tank everything! WORIORS RULE PVE AND PVP!!! I SOLO WHOLE PVE CAMPAIGN WITH MY WORIOR! Taking minions would make the other warriors think we are pussies anyway '''[[Special:Contributions/Saz|<span style='color:deeppink;'>—</span>]]<small style='font-family:Verdana;font-variant: small-caps;'>[[User:Saz|<span style='color:deeppink;'>Sazzy</span>]][[User_Talk:Saz|<span style='color:Black;'>Pooh</span>]][[Image:PinkNautical.jpg]]11:53, 12 November 2008 (EST)</small>'''
-Ah..I should have used a staff on my warrior for this build to work.  LOL! [[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 20:32, 12 November 2008 (EST)
-::I have to agree here. The use of discord on its own is fine; a spammable spell that only requires a hex/enchantment+condition makes for good teamwork. But minion skills on all necro heroes seems to SCREAM skill failure (heroes will activate minion skills on the nearest corpse, at a pretty high priority). And to piggyback off of DarkSpirit, the caller build cant really work with 2pip professions (warrior, paragon). Its obvious that 2 pips is never enough to manage consistent casting.--[[Special:Contributions/136.165.5.227|136.165.5.227]] 10:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
-== cleanup ==
-done some but not sure about the enite optionals section for the caller, pretty much every single skill in game can be chucked in there so is there any point having that section? --[[User:204.8.156.142|204.8.156.142]] 07:31, 16 November 2008 (EST)
-== paragon = warrior's nrg? ==
-u don't say anything about warrior being bad to go with the build, but you say that paragons isn't recomended? they have same nrg (max and reg). plus, a paragon can take some shouts/shants to help the nrg a little, but a warrior... well i don't really know but i think that paragon would be more to recomend then warrior. but thats maby just me :P
-if it's "you move like a dwarf" thats the nrg prob why not take "your all weaklings"? no dmg but it's a condition. now you don't going to tell me that my brother can't use this build with his para, "mister person who is going to coment me" ;)--[[User:80.73.58.222|80.73.58.222]] 12:55, 22 November 2008 (EST)
-:Wow. [[User:Kabu To|Kabu To]] 16:59, 22 November 2008 (EST)
-==11-10-8-8==
-is not possible.  I generally like the changes, but that needs to be fixed.  10-10-8-8?  Also paragon does work.  TNtF as the 3rd optional, furious spear and either energizing chorus or GftE as E-management.  --[[User:Thc|Thc]] 12:08, 26 November 2008 (EST)
-== Optionals ==
-Optional section for caller needs to be removed. People fit all sort of shit in the 5 optional slots availible. No you dont need assassin or sniper supports. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] 10:08, 29 November 2008 (EST)
-:I've tried both with and without Assassin Support, and it makes a whole lotta difference. First off, it's a decent damage spike, often dealing ~80 damage even in HM. Second, it knock-locks the enemy--I've caught mesmers in HM mid-casting Cry of Frustration by chaining "You Move Like a Dwarf!" with Assassin Support. Third, it's an expendable ally--in HM, all the nukes are gonna come down as soon as someone's in the aggro bubble. If the assassin takes the heat, you have an expendable corpse, AND the assasin's taken hundreds of damage instead of a team member as all spikes concentrate on him. And finally, he body-blocks a bit, which can give you the few seconds which make the difference between life and death in HM. All in all, Assassin Support feels like the best choice all-around for the fourth slot. [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 14:57, 6 January 2009 (EST)
-== Problem with D-way. ==
-Two/Three skills on each bar, every thing else is sandbox. THERE IS NO GENERIC BUILD! --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] 18:44, 3 December 2008 (EST)
-:These bars are really not that good. [[User:71.175.59.85|71.175.59.85]] 14:08, 20 December 2008 (EST)
-== Varient ==
-Idk
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Protective Was Kaolai|Weapon of Warding|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|Signet of Lost Souls|Life|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Spirit Light|Mend Body and Soul|Pure Was Li Ming|Signet of Lost Souls|Enfeebling Blood|Shadow of Fear|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Discord|Animate Bone Minions|Death Nova|Signet of Lost Souls|Protective Spirit|Convert Hexes|Shield of Absorption|Optional}}
-Haven't tried it yet but idk [[User:My Roflrockets Go Pewpew|<font color=green>Shazam's My Ho</font color=green>]] ([[User_talk:My Roflrockets Go Pewpew|<font color=pink>Cuz I'm Roflrockets</font color=pink>]])[[Image:RoflsCool.png|19px]] 22:18, 29 December 2008 (EST)
-== another variant for player ==
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=any/a deadly=12 dagger=12][assassin's promise][shadow fang]["you move like a dwarf!"][falling lotus strike][death blossom]["i am the strongest!"][Optional][resurrection signet][/build]
-</pvxbig>
-this build kills faster than the the one on main page and is nrg friendly for all proffesions expect war and para.
-got to sign above.--[[User:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Da Blue User'''</font>]] [[User talk:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Is'''</font>]] [[User:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Blue'''</font>]] [[User talk:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''is looking for TA/HA guild'''</font>]] 16:39, 2 January 2009 (EST)
-:not as universal [[Image:Tai_sig_Image_78.png]] '''<small style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Tai|<font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">16:47, 2 January 2009</font>]]</small>'''
-::how so?  it needs no crit strikes for nrg which makes the build doable for every proffesion, exepct war and para ofc b/c of there nrg regen.--[[User:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Da Blue User'''</font>]] [[User talk:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Is'''</font>]] [[User:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''Blue'''</font>]] [[User talk:IM BLUE!|<font color="Blue">'''is looking for TA/HA guild'''</font>]] 17:01, 2 January 2009 (EST)
-:::Going into melee range with a flimsy caster in HM makes me kinda go "ugh". Better off staying at range and letting the minions take the aggro IMO. [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 14:53, 6 January 2009 (EST)
-::By "kills faster" do you mean not at all?  EVAS alone replaces half your bar AND is unblockable + knocklock.  Also, the above bar assumes exceedingly slow kills.  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 15:02, 6 January 2009 (EST)
-== Meekness > Shadow of Fear ==
-Sure it has high energy cost and 17% sacrifice but it is "all foes in the area", with this amount of minnions and Soul Reaping the Necromancer will be sure to have enough energy. And this teambuild should be able to outheal the 17% sacrifice easily on its own. [[User:62.45.134.148|62.45.134.148]] 05:25, 5 February 2009 (EST)
-:To be honest the only reasons i choose shadow of fear over meekness is because i usually ball enemies into groups where possible to kill a bit easier and faster plus it is cheaper in energy cost and a tad more spammable in areas with hex removal ;) [[User:T1Cybernetic|T1Cybernetic]] 06:39, 5 February 2009 (EST)
-Why should you worry about 5 more energy?  It is a 3 necro build with a MM in it, duh.  Meekness is better because it has a wider area which means no fear of hex removal. [[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 11:33, 17 February 2009 (EST)
-== necro caller ==
-if taking discord...do you just replace assassins promise? and take some aoe hex/conditions in optional slots? [[User:Illoyon|Illoyon]] 20:42, 5 February 2009 (EST)
-:No, you take assassin's promise.  It's very rare that AP is not your best option, even against hex removal or healers.  If you really, really don't want to take AP take necrosis and don't waste attribute points.  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 21:14, 5 February 2009 (EST)
-== Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support ==
-i read this could be used as a tank...but the enemys just ignore it...so what i am doing wrong? [[User:Illoyon|Illoyon]] 08:33, 9 February 2009 (EST)
-:the enemies aren't going to suddenly change target if the aggro is already on you. if you start the battle by casting one then back off and let the enemies surround it..? .. and watch it get raped. tbh I think it's just someone theorycrafting, but I could be wrong. --'''[[User:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">-Ch</span>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgray">ao</span><span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">s-</span>]] ''' 09:33, 9 February 2009 (EST)
-::I've seen it work, although it dies in like 1 second literally.  Just enough time for the minions to march in and take aggro.  Tbh, it's only really useful against heavy AoE.  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 14:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)
-:::Those sins still soak aggro rather well it doesnt mean that everything would rush to attack them though. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 14:24, 9 February 2009 (EST)
-::::If you cast it on the closest target, then yes, everything will attack it, since nothing else is in range.  But it dies in literally 1 sec or less, so the usefulness is questionable  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 16:15, 9 February 2009 (EST)
-:::::It makes foes waste skills on useless targets. --'''[[User:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">-Ch</span>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgray">ao</span><span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">s-</span>]] ''' 07:34, 10 February 2009 (EST)
-::::::That's true, I guess. --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 00:55, 12 February 2009 (EST)
-::::::Thc, lets assume that your ebon vanguard rank is 8 or above it is not hard to achieve when youre going for discord anyway. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 07:54, 10 February 2009 (EST)
-:::::::Okay, done.  Now say something useful?  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 00:55, 12 February 2009 (EST)
-== Mark of Death ==
-Useful when taking on things in healer infested areas like Eastern Frontier and can be used as a cover hex for AP. Add it to variants?--[[User:68.32.187.152|68.32.187.152]] 17:09, 14 February 2009 (EST)
-== Broken Template ==
-It seems that the Curse Resto template is broken. At least for me, can someone check/replace it with a good one?
-:not broken for me. here's the code for you: OAhkUoG4BGqTMzOgI2dDTpJ1+iB [[User:Fox007|<b><font color="Orange">Fox007</font></b>]] [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 08:46, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-==revert war==
-just variant them both. in my personal opinion, enduring toxin sucks for mainbar, but I'll ''post here'' before I revert more... --'''[[User:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">-Ch</span>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgray">ao</span><span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">s-</span>]] ''' 10:03, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-:Well, I agree with IP's  thinking on Enduring Toxin actually. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 10:07, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-== stop being so fucking retarded ==
-stop being that you just defend a position like retards, I made the last version of this discord now Im updating it for a newer one because its way better. Researching into discordway I have discovered that having another copy of bile and bone minions is redundant and two mms kept interfering with each other so it bad, new version has better defense, it has wow 12 resto and such also double shamblings for extremely fast exploiting which it was originally intended for. Enduring Toxin is fantastic against high hp mobs that might not get killed as fast and mark of death is godly with dw and has recieved positive feedback for everyone who used it so stfu and stop reverting.
-:You also defend a position like a retard, and you also revert. {{User:Lyssan55/Signature2.js}} 10:11, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-:Thats how pvx works, nobody would care about evaluating edits by any unfamiliar user/IP I had same problems before. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 10:15, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-::How is enduring toxin mainbar?  Barbs and MoP are both far superior against healers.  ET is only decent if you have no other options... so it should be in optional, at best.  -THC
-:::Because people are being retarded. It's like "yay, degen!" in a team relying on strong damage spam. --'''[[User:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">-Ch</span>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgray">ao</span><span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; color: darkgreen">s-</span>]] ''' 14:38, 15 February 2009 (EST)
-== Stop trolling with enduring toxin ==
-It is 4 degen.  It is not good.  Stop  --[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 12:19, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-:lol, think it's for the degen? --<small>&mdash;''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' [[User:Chaos Messenger|Chaos]] ([[User talk:Chaos Messenger|talk]]) .</small> 12:33, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-::<s>Leave it optional. Chaos, you don't need a cover hex because you don't cast AP until the enemy is right at 1/2 health, and then you use Finish Him and it's over. Cover hexes are fucking retarded on this build. If some people are too stupid to figure out when to use AP, then leave it in the variants, but imo it's a pointless addition. </s>[[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]] ([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">12:38, 18 February 2009 -</font> )
-:::When I run this my heroes use different bars, so what I said above is invalid. Although, I still think it should be left optional. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]] ([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">13:00, 18 February 2009 -</font> )
-::::Is what I did, but Anon RV1'd it. --<small>&mdash;''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' [[User:Chaos Messenger|Chaos]] ([[User talk:Chaos Messenger|talk]]) .</small> 13:02, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-::No I don't think it's for degen.  It's a cover hex, but there are obv better cover hexes available, such as barbs/MoP if you're a necro.  Thus, optional--[[User:Thc|<font color="Blue"><i>User:</i></font><font color="Green"><b><i>Thc</i></b></font>]] 18:20, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-:::I personally dont perfer enduring toxin, but a 1/4 cast hex, with a quick recharge is always nice. --[[User:Drahgal Meir|<font color="black"><b>Dr</b></font>]][[User talk:Drahgal Meir|<font color="black"><b>ah</b></font>]] [[Image:Drah-Sig1.jpg‎|19px]] 18:47, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-::::Thats same reason I liked that idea. Maybe it should be kept optional because Mesmers posess better options for same purpose.
-::::@Thc:
-::::If you realise that ET is not for degen why are you suggesting MoP/Barbs for ''cover'' hexes? --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 19:11, 18 February 2009 (EST)
-:::::becase those are some useful skills? --<small>&mdash;''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' [[User:Chaos Messenger|Chaos]] ([[User talk:Chaos Messenger|talk]]) .</small> 05:50, 19 February 2009 (EST)
-::::::MoP/Barbs are useless as cover hexes, long casting time. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 05:51, 19 February 2009 (EST)
-:::::::Any cover hex that casts in one second or less is alright. --<small>&mdash;''The preceding trolling attempt was made by'' [[User:Chaos Messenger|Chaos]] ([[User talk:Chaos Messenger|talk]]) .</small> 06:30, 19 February 2009 (EST)
-::::::::PI is a half decent cover hex >.> And somewhat useful. [[Image:Goodnight_la_sig_2.png‎]] 00:37, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::With PI, you have to give up a PvE skill and you need YMLaD for the condition, EVA because....well...he's the main reason for the build, and FH to kill off the bastard. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]]([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:54, 20 February 2009 -</font> )
-:@Anon
-:You're right, barbs is not a cover hex, but I meant it's a hex that prevents AP from being removed (e.g., you cast barbs first).  ET is not a good hex and definitely not main bar material.  Here's why:
-::1) Has an irrelevant effect and has no guarantee of lasting more than 5 seconds.
-::2) Hex removal is not enough vs. smart play.
-::2) The only time a cover hex is needed is vs. multiple healers.  In the case of multiple healers, you want more damage.  Barbs provides the equivalent of something 40+ degen.  For damage purposes, the choice is clear.
-::3) Vs. a single healer with hex removal, hex removal is irrelevant.  You simply knocklock it and kill it.
-::4) Vs. high HP opponents, AP becomes less important than DPS.  Barbs lets you DPS, speeding along play.  --Zaney 04:45, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::You make some good points, but if I were you guys, I would rework the hero bars so you don't need a cover hex (or condition for that matter). I honestly prefer to run PI on my bar over YMLaD and have my heroes provide the conditions/hexes. But that's me. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]]([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">18:54, 20 February 2009 -</font> )
-::::How would you rework the hero bars to not need a cover hex?  Putrid bile and shadow not enough?  --[[User:Zaney|Zaney]] 18:58, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::You don't need a cover because you cast AP right before the foe kabooms, being faster than any hex removal is. Usually in mobs where one guy has hex removal they all do, so one cover hex aint gonna do crap. --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 19:02, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::The main problem here is that Anon thinks you should cast AP when calling the target and covering AP so it doesn't get pulled. Chaos, Thc, and me all think you should cast AP on the target right before using "FH!" to blow his ass up. We need to decide which one has more appropriate timing (and we know which side I'm on). [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]]([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:05, 20 February 2009 -</font> )
-:::::::=right before the foe dies. Stop mainbarring that dum ET.. --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 19:20, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::I think everyone knows how and why we feel the way we do, Chaos. Let's give Anon a chance to tell us why he believes you need to cast AP first rather than last. [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]]([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:22, 20 February 2009 -</font> )
-:::::::::Sometimes you show this amazing patience I'm never gonna achieve. Like with those people on GWW =/ --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 19:27, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::Lol, well it's not very often :/ and I think patience is one of those things you just get with age (and working with teens every day). [[Image:Adorably shocked mcmonkey sig.png]]([[User talk:Karate Jesus|→]]<font face="Arial" color="gray">19:31, 20 February 2009 -</font> )
-:::::::::::It's kinda what I thought. I'm a teen and dumb in terms of social everything, but I have enough of a sense of realism to see what stuff is about.. I just rarely have the ''patience'' to make my point clear/handle accordingly. /camp for flaming Anon's reasoning. --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 19:44, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::::You people dont know how to use Discord caller, you dont cast AP right before your target dies you cast it at the start with YMLaD! then Discord x3 with sin and FH are enough to take down any foe before AP ends tats why I liked suggestion for some sort of cover hex. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 10:29, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::::::Yes, but not for mainbar.. I already optionaled ET and don't know wtf happened. All areas don't have hex removal to fear. So can I now optional ET and you don't put it back...? --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 10:33, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::::::No you cant. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 10:36, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-Leave the bar alone!--[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 10:39, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-:We already agreed over this, actually. Next to change the bar like that is gonna get BBQ'd. --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 10:40, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-::Wanna try? --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 10:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::I'm not meaty enough to fulfill the needs of one sausage. --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 10:45, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-:There are so many problems with using ET as a cover hex.  First of all, if you are a mesmer, there are obviously better options due to fc.  So straight off, that's 1 profession that ET is 100% inferior for.  Then, as already argued, necro has way better hex options.  Ele would probably have greater success with fish hexes like mark of rodgort or deep freeze, since even a cover hex doesn't protect against deep hex removal, which is actually the most common type of hex removal in EotN.
-:Also, if you really really think you need a cover hex, '''you can just manual shadow of fear or putrid bile'''.  Problem solved, without wasting a spot on your bar.
-:Finally, like Anon, I use AP as a primer for discord too.  But against multiple healers, which is the only time you should have trouble with hex removal, you are just asking for trouble.  Even if it's not removed, there's a good chance it'll just time out anyway.  In these cases, you are going to want stronger hexes such as barbs/MoP or backfire/empathy or deep freeze/maelstrom etc.  --[[User:Zaney|Zaney]] 19:43, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-::Left note when I was varianting: ''# (cur) (last)  10:35, 21 February 2009 Anonimous. (Talk | contribs) m (6,012 bytes) (necs have better back up hexes mes too so I optional it) (undo)''.
-::I also dont understand why you call MoR and Maelstorm hexes, they are not. :p
-::Discord can easily power through strong heals especially when you have means to reduce ammount of healing your target recieves. ET I found to be useful for rest of profs who dont have those good "fish" hexes thats why I ensisted on keeping it at least varianted. You can use hexes on your heroes as feed ofcourse but it would take little longer. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 21:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
-== Does this work well with warrior? ==
-There has been alot of talk in guru that this build doesn't work well with a W/A and the reasons given are:
-. Wariors have a lower base energy than a caster
-. Wariors only have half the energy regeneration rate of caster (only 2pips)
-. Alot of wasted armor when a staff warrior is not holding aggro in the frontlines.
-Why is this build recommending warriors to play this way?  Don't they know that warriors make the worst casters?
-Some people are starting to think that a W/A caster build is highly recommended by pvxwiki since necro heroes are so popular.
-[[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 00:26, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
-:It should be pretty obvious that a warrior won't do as well as other classes, though an enduring scyther might be able to work decently.  Sabway is probably a better option for a warrior.  I'm not sure where it says this build is recommended for a warrior, but if it is, this is a wiki, change it--[[User:Zaney|Zaney]] 04:00, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
-::Warriors can also use [[Racway]] well --[[Image:Tai_Sig.png]] '''<small style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:Tai|<font face="verdana" color="black" variant="small caps">04:05, 23 February 2009</font>]]</small>'''
-:::The word "obvious" can be very subjective, afterall the build does claim to be for any profession/A with even recommendation skills for warriors.  Someone in guru suggested putting like this "If you play as a warrior profession and you want to run an AP caller build and you want to use discord, then you may want to bring a staff to help you have the energy needed to spam AP and YMLAD. However, discordway in its entirety is better suited for the casting persuasion."  You dont want some kid to try his AP warrior in HM then realizes that it sucks.--[[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 16:25, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::use sabway--[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 16:28, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::Well i made it for necro in first place, but people from my guild have used it with warrior (holding a staff) and using only AP and "YmlaD". They say it is usable with warrior, but not as effective as casters (who can also spam finish him etc) [[Image:Ballsy Smurf.jpg|16px]][[User:Smurf Minions|'''<font color='black'>Black</font><font color="blue">smurf'''</font>]] [[User talk:Smurf Minions|<font color="#00BFFF"><small>McHippopotas</small></font>]] 09:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
-::::::And it would be extremely boring--[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 07:18, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Excuse me blacksmurf, YOU made it? -_- [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 16:25, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::I dont see the issue of using warriors with this necro team; it can (or rather should) function as sabway does; on its own. The option to set up a target with a hex+condition is okay, but that can be limited by energy (example being warrior, of course). This is why you carry hexes on 2-3 necros. Not to mention its not difficult to apply a condition with melee in this team (namely, withering aura). IMO, this team works best with melee player (just as sabway does) specifically for the frontline position (and in the case of discord, you have an easy condition app through withering aura). Its basics that you use your energy sparingly and wisely as a warrior; adrenaline is your main currency. Why not make use of Dragon Slash+Save Yourselves? As long as you apply a hex and contition in some form, the build will work. "Conditions by the melee, hexes by the necros" is how I play when it comes to using a frontliner, and I can only say that it works for me on any melee player I use. Casters can easily facilitate the hex+condition calling on their own.--[[Special:Contributions/136.165.5.227|136.165.5.227]] 10:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::This doesn't work as well for a warrior when you compare it side by side to sabway.  You dont have Splinter Weapon, you dont have Barbs, and warriors using AP are just not as effective as one using another warrior elite, even if you cut down the rest of the 10e PvE skills which would gimp him further.  As the build stands now, the answer for warriors is to use sabway or some other build.  But some of your suggestions imply, this can be changed to accomodate warriors as well, with the proper variant and I agree. - [[User:DarkSpirit|DarkSpirit]] 13:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::::I use discord with my warrior and it's served me well for the most part. I use DSlash; SY; For Great Justice; Finish Him!; Pain Inverter; and I bring Barberous Slice For a condition since I dont have any stances on my bar, and Plague touch & Lions Comfort. The only area I ran into trouble on was a few maps that had a large number of elementals and few corpses; and even then only in HardMode. Instead of weapon of warding I swap in a second putrid bile so I don't have to worry about hexing as much.--[[User:GreenBook|<font color="Green">'''GreenBook'''</font>]] 1:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::::I also use discord on my warr and I don't use AP. I use a modified WE build. Since i'm spamming a couple skills on that bar I hve 29 energy and WE keeps my energy up. I'm just gonna say that I use asuran scan for hexes and the heroes/minions provide the conditions. I'm still dealing 70+ dmg/hit most of the time and with power attack I often hit for 110+. So i'm still killing faster with it than an AP build. [[Special:Contributions/66.232.240.56|66.232.240.56]] 14:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
-I just tried Discordway for the first time with my warrior, and I find it does have serious limitations which I'm not sure caster classes understand.  Unless you sacrifice health mods for energy mods, you start with 20 energy.  That's enough to cast AP and YMLaD instantly - but then you have only 5 energy left, and EVAS (which is the whole point of this build) costs 10 energy.  Warriors only have +2 energy regen, which means they need to wait 7.5 seconds before casting EVAS.  Using Succor instead of the Sorrow Discord's minions, as per TedTheFarmer's suggestion below, is a good one, but only halfway fixes the problem - the warrior still needs to wait 5 seconds to cast EVAS.  One way to solve this might be to sacrifice three rune slots to Runes of Attunement, or have a +5 energy weapon, or even use Radiant Insignia, but those solutions sacrifice a lot of health.  And you've still got another serious problem - as soon as you get any death penalty at all, you're back to waiting for EVAS!  For these reasons, I think a variant section for warriors is necessary, because the standard build just isn't going to work.  Here's the build I'm trying out now, for which you still get to choose two PVE skills:
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=W/N cur=3 str=12+1 swo=12+1+1][Warrior's Endurance][Asuran Scan][Enfeeble][Distracting Blow][Wild Blow][Power Attack][Optional][Optional][/build]
-</pvxbig>
-Usage: Replace the Sorrow Discord's minions with Succor and manually maintain on self.  Before battle cast WE, wait until recharged, go in with Asura Scan and Enfeeble, ctrl-space, spam other skills to suit. --evilsofa 15:27, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-:Still doesn't feel right, because AP would recharge your energy without having to melee attack something; if the necros kill the target before you get to it, you end up with a low energy situation again, which is still the warrior's big problem with Discordway.  I might try experimenting with Assassin's Promise, Sneak Attack and EVAS to see using SA instead of YMLaD! helps, but I just don't know if I can make this work. --evilsofa 22:30, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-::Oh, nuts, Sneak Attack is a melee attack; the beauty of Discordway is being able to do it from casting distance.  I'm effectively looking for a skill usable by a W/A that can be cast from a distance, costs 5 energy, and inflicts a condition - and as far as I can tell, there is none!  I pronounce the build not effective on Warriors - go with Sabway instead. --evilsofa 22:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
-:::or paraway. &mdash; [[User:Mafaraxas|μαφλεσ]] 00:48, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::I think you mean Racway.  Racway is based on maintaining Agressive Refrain - which costs 25 energy.  That is an absolute showstopper for warriors. --evilsofa 18:30, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
-:::::no, I mean take any decent warrior bar, then bring two paragon heroes to abuse shouts and chants.  a warrior hero also, to bring 'watch yourself' at a moderate spec if you like. 22:47, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
-::::::I have now found a very interesting team build that does something like that, except with a minion bomber for the third hero, which might be better than Sabway. --evilsofa 17:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
-== Runes ==
-I have the runes for triple necro and I don't really want to change them. Will this build still work good with those runes?--[[User:Vgfanatic2|Vgfanatic2]] 00:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
-:yup --'''<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="black">-Ch</font>]][[User talk:Chaos Messenger|<font color="deeppink">ao</font><font color="black">s-</font>]]</span>''' 09:50, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
-::Work - yes. Work well - no. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 11:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
-:::i never rune heroes and i never have any problems =s <b>[[User:InfestedHydralisk|<font color="#000000">'''Infested'''</font>]][[User talk:InfestedHydralisk|<font color="#CD0000">'''Hydralisk'''</font>]]</b> 16:27, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
-==[[User:Life Guardian/Discord]]==
-Discuss. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:20, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
-:Yours is better.  But both need more conditions IMO.  Weaken Armor is all I'm asking for.  [[Image:Benjammn311Sig5.png]] 21:35, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
-::Probably true. I'm used to applying the conditions myself so I've never really noticed. Weaken armor for barbs on olias would probably work well. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 22:06, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
-::Inferior.  On the player, take MoP and barbs.  Yours has far less healing/defense and too much useless crap (parasitic bond, etc.)  --[[Special:Contributions/75.95.209.103|75.95.209.103]] 17:20, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::lolurbaed.[[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:36, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::Your version is really bad, no reason at all for so many hexes, take some on the caller and 1 or 2 on a nec hero and thats enough. [[Image:Discordsig.jpg|50x19px]][[User:Watch me work it|<font color="Green">'''Watch me work it'''</font>]] 12:25, 25 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::"lolurbaed"?  Your build is shit, to be frank.  Listen to what the person above me said.  --[[User:Zaney|Zaney]] 02:24, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::wtf r u guys talking about hexes, ur both bad >.> and shambling horrors ownz :D. suffering is meh tho. you have to being another healer/support if ur gonna have to run that in comparison to putting healers on 2 necros--[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 02:55, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::::Ok,disabling and microing barbs+MoP is gud. I should probably try to fit in shamblings, but w/e. It does fine in 4 man. I always bring support/healer hench in 6/8 man. You can get kills with just you and your heroes, so using henchies for anything but keeping you alive is kind of a waste. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 03:02, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::...you take MoP on the AP because it is 20s recharge.  Isnt that obv.?--[[Special:Contributions/75.95.209.103|75.95.209.103]] 18:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::If you need MoP more than once every 20 seconds you're doing it wrong. Shit should die before the AP has time to cast MoP anyways. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:41, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
-== I would use this on my mesmer. ==
-{{mini skill bar|Assassin's Promise|Cry of Pain|Arcane Echo|Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support|"Finish Him!"|optional|optional|optional}}
-Why Arcane Echo? well you could echo Assassin's Promise for when it would fail, and if not echoing Assassin's Promise you could echo Cry of Pain or Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support or any other spell. So why isn't Arcane Echo between the optional skills? [[User:Qaletaqa|Qaletaqa]] 13:21, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
-:Assassin's promise wouldn't trigger damage from CoP, you need a mes hex--[[User:Goldenstar|Goldenstar]] 13:48, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
-::Pretty much that build already exists [[Build:Me/A_Assassin's_Promise_Spiker|here]] [[User:Athrun Feya|Athrun Feya]] 14:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
-:::@Goldenstar that's why there are optional slots. @Athrun Feya Ahh didn't see that one.[[User:Qaletaqa|Qaletaqa]] 14:40, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
-== Healing ==
-Would the three necros be enough healing for HM? or do you need to take another monk?[[Special:Contributions/82.72.233.33|82.72.233.33]] 11:35, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
-:Depends on the area really, but another monk can never hurt. You usually got enough damage to kill anyway. <small>[[User:Godliest|<font color = "black">Godbox</font>]]</small> 12:28, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
-::When I play in HM I mostly take the next four henchman with me, Herta, Mhenlo, Lina and Zho (or something similar). Since I have enough dmg as it is I always take the extra monks with me just to be sure, and it really depends on wich area and the type of mobs you have to fight, just like Godbox said. [[User:Qaletaqa|Qaletaqa]] 06:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
-:::should only take one other monk max, otherwise u just slow urself down--[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 07:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
-::::I really have to disagree, ALWAYS take 2 monks, the damage of yourself and the 3 heroes means you score kills every 2 seconds anyways, you dont need more(besides most henchies have mediocre damage anyway)while more heal is certainly needed in most of the more nasty missions/areas on hardmode. This is even more true now that PwK recharges 10sec longer which means less party heal spam from your heroes!
-== SoLS ==
-the necros are almost every time on ~ 5 to 7 energie even with fast killing...so why not bring SoLS?...and is it really necessesary to bring 2 Shambling Horror? when i go discordway they have maybe 2 minions over time...and the bone minion necro is not able to get to 9 minions (in corpse heavy areas)...in corpse less areas maybe the first and second nec gets 0-1 minions and the third 2-4. [[User:Illoyon|Illoyon]] 09:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
-:If you can keep up 10-20 minions, then there shouldn't be any need for SOLS.  Tbh, that's 99% of VQs.  But if you're doing an area that doesn't have corpses or you have a hard time keeping up minions, it might be worthwhile.  But tbh, d-way probably isn't your best option for those cases.  --[[Special:Contributions/75.95.209.103|75.95.209.103]] 18:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
-::This section brings up the achilles heel of this discord team, in my opinion. It has NEVER been an effective tactic to bring 3 heroes with minion skills , and the reason why is that heroes just dont have the AI to ''share minions''. What happens is the necros target the freshest or nearest corpse, usually the freshest. Once that is established, the necros dont have the AI to recognize when another necro is casting a minion spell, so they cast '''on the same corpse as well'''. The first necro to cast will gain the minion, while any other necro casting a minion skill will '''fail in the cast'''. Thats a valuable 15 energy and 1-3 seconds gone with nothing to show for it. With all necros having the chance for this to occur, this becomes a significant problem, if not avoided beforehand. Sure, its possible in some corpse-heavy areas like bogroot's or vizunah square to have 2 or 3 dedicated mm's, but these sort of places are few and far between. And to adress the above comments, if you depend on minions as your primary fuel for discord, you're going to fail hard. Minions should be a body-blocking frontliner/death nova fodder primarily, and soul reaping battery secondarily; If the corpses are few, you have to have the capability to make enough kills to feul soul reaping ''with just you and your necros'', or you're screwed. Not to mention there are quite a few places where corpses are few. '''So give SoLS more credit, and definitely add it if you're low on energy'''.--[[Special:Contributions/74.129.227.63|74.129.227.63]] 07:59, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-== for warrior ==
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=W/A str=12+1+1 dag=12][Golden Fox Strike][Golden Fang Strike][Death Blossom][Warrior's Endurance]["Save Yourselves!" (Luxon)]["For Great Justice!"][Asuran Scan][Resurrection Signet][/build]
-</pvxbig>
-y/n?--[[User:Simpson man|Simpson man]] 19:24, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
-:Unless you plan on keeping yourself enchanted by forcing the N/Mo to enchant you constantly (and probably cause them to waste energy because they were busy casting something else), no way. Even if you did, the hex/condition application is far slower than using AP and YMLaD, you'd probably have energy problems, you can't knock enemies down, you can't have FGJ up for very long, etc. [[User:Capsule Computer|Capcom]] 22:51, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
-::Small complaints.... This is a suitable option for warrior (if you feel like using daggers). Theres damage, deep wound, no pressing need for a knockdown (though one can be added), and the condition+hex gets up in 2 attacks. Not many mobs block, but Golden Fang can be solved with a necro that carries withering aura. Well damn, thats another condition right there.--[[Special:Contributions/74.129.227.63|74.129.227.63]] 08:05, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-<pvxbig>
-[build prof=W/A axe=12+1+1 str=12+1][warrior's endurance][dismember][power attack][cyclone axe][Asuran Scan][you move like a][flail][Resurrection Signet][/build]
-</pvxbig>
---[[User:Relyk|Relyk]] 03:07, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
-== Technobabble ==
-Has allready been suggested someone else above, but no one replied so I'm going to ask it here: would it be viable to use Technobabble instead of "YMLaD", or am I missing something important? Reason I'm asking is because I allways play with heroes and henchies lately and as such do not have a reliable means of daze (well maybe in EoTN, but if it's reliable then is still another question). While I feel I could really use that condition for some fire elemental groups... (ZBounties Korshek the Immolated and Borrguus Blisterbark where such a pain in the butt, it wasn't even funny... I know Technobabble isn't directly appliable on them, but at least, I would be able to deal with his sidekicks more easily... I guess.--[[User:Fuu no Ki|Fuu no Ki]] 11:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
-:Besides Technoabble is AoE en Daze Causing if targeting a none boss and only has 1 sec casting time instead of none of YMLD. But the duration of the daze is pretty short compared to YMLD so that might be a problem. [[User:Fox007|<b><font color="Orange">Fox007</font></b>]] [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 11:21, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
-::Does a silencing weapon mod increase the daze length? [[User:Selket Shadowdancer|Selket Shadowdancer]] 13:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Warrior skills ==
-since warriors actually have alot energy en regen WE ftw. [[User:Fox007|<b><font color="Orange">Fox007</font></b>]] [[Image:User Fox007 sig.png|User:Fox007]] 19:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
-==My Curses==
-Necro always, and I mean Always get in energy troubles.. I don't think 9 Soul Reaping cuts it. been working around with variants but it's not rly working..[[Special:Contributions/213.126.247.227|213.126.247.227]] 13:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:You're doing something wrong. My blue bars are never under half. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 16:39, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::Energy should be low, but not at 0. The curses should hover at around 10-15 at all times. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::If your energy drops to 0, then you're too slow at killing foes or you're using energy-expensive skills. The Assassin' Promise/"You Move Like a Dwarf" combo is enough to kill any enemy. --[[User:Othrandor Evel|Othrandor Evel]] 13:47, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-==Three MMs==
-lolfightingovercorpsesandwastingtime. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:34, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:Then tell us what bars you would recommend ;) [[User:Brandnew|Brandnew]] 17:44, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::{{mini skill bar|Discord|Animate Bone Minions|Death Nova|Feast for the Dead|Aegis|Reverse Hex|Protective Spirit|Signet of Lost Souls}}{{mini skill bar|Discord|Putrid Bile|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|PwK|Signet of Lost Souls|Recovery|Flesh of My Flesh}}{{mini skill bar|Discord|Shadow of Fear|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|Weapon of Warding|PwK|Life|Flesh of My Flesh}}
-::PvX likes dual healers. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 17:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::Dual Healer + Dual Hardres. YOU ARE SUCH A PUSSY. [[User:Brandnew|Brandnew]] 18:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::My real build is in a link a few sections up. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::PwML is terrible. however, just bringing one Minions is good. no reason to bring other shit. needs more putrid bile, though. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 18:13, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::PwML? And you can drop aegis or something. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 18:57, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Feast of the Dead tbh. --[[User:Mafaraxas|Mafaraxas]] 18:59, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::PwLM*. Also, why would you drop aegis? '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 19:03, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::Where do you see that? Andbecause iirc, Herta has wards. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 19:07, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::::Aegis is still hawt since terrible heroes kite outside wards. also, PwLM was on your original bars you said to look up at. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 19:14, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::::...No it wasn't? [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 20:20, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
-:lolspeak your ass.
-:I use two or three separate minion spells on my necros, its advantageous as long as over two corpses are availible which normally happens as discord has strong aoe damage contrary to popular belief. It takes you roughly same time to exploit all of them as it would take to exploit one if you had sole MM so you have more necros availible to spike with discord, faster.
-:If you use bloodstained insigs on shambling necros outcome of "corpse fight" is going to be obvious, long recharge shamblings have priority over minions when they are availible and minions fill the gap when they asre not so you end up with good balance between high and low level minions. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 14:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::You're really autistic, aren't you? Write something readable for once and I'll consider you're argument. Try [[gww:User:Shard/English|here]] if you need help. From what I did understand, again - if your minions are actually making a difference beyond being body-blocks, you're doing it wrong. Maybe bring Shambling + Minions on one MM. Beyond that, it's just overkill. There's no reason when running Discordway that you should ever need more. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 14:53, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::i Heared that gRammar, cans important; be it necessary to right and red: perhaps gra5tuatin 7 gradez wud(help) [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] [[User talk:Karate Jesus|<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">14:58, 15 June 2009 </font>]]
-::::KJ deals with kids who have issues all the time. I'm sure if you need help, he'd be more than willing. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 15:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::A masters in Adolescent Development didn't exactly prepare me to help people like him. However, my wife is a Psychologist and works with teens who have sub-normal IQs all the time. I'll let her know she's needed. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] [[User talk:Karate Jesus|<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:40, 15 June 2009 </font>]]
-::::::Hey now. He might not be retarded - maybe he's just [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia dyxlescic] or had a really bad morning. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 15:55, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Sub-normal isn't retarded. Retarded typically means you're unable to function. Sub-normal people can function, they're just really annoying and stupid. They have like a 80ish IQ, and can't maintain higher brain functions. Inbreeding causes it a lot. [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] [[User talk:Karate Jesus|<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">15:59, 15 June 2009 </font>]]
-:::That post shows youre the only autist here or so much on drugs you cant get a simple game explanation. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 16:57, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-lolspeak your ass.
-I use two or three separate minion spells on my necros, its advantageous as long as over two corpses are availible which normally happens as discord has strong aoe damage contrary to popular belief. It takes you roughly same time to exploit all of them as it would take to exploit one if you had sole MM so you have more necros availible to spike with discord, faster.
-If you use bloodstained insigs on shambling necros outcome of "corpse fight" is going to be obvious, long recharge shamblings have priority over minions when they are availible and minions fill the gap when they asre not so you end up with good balance between high and low level minions. --Anonimous. D: 14:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-Please clarify which part of that is supposed to be comprehendible to those of us who aren't inbred autists? '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 17:17, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:Is any of you not an inbred autist? --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 17:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::Are any of you not inbred autists?* See how much better that sounds? '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 17:28, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::Wrote a different thing first, forgot to change. You people really tick me off... --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 17:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::Use proper (or even close to proper) English, and we'll work on in-house relations. Until then, I really can't be bothered. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 17:35, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-"lolspeak your ass"please dechipher this. [[Image:unrealSignature1.png]] 17:37, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::{{ec}}I see that now being a grammar nazi is a new trend on PvX, lol. Anyway, it is very simple, having one/two other heroes with minion spells saves you time exploiting corpses. Do you understand now? --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 17:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:See Life's comment. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 17:46, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::That's much more intelligible. :> And.. I could see taking a hero with minions/shambling and one with just shambling. build big minion walls, etc. I've just always aimed for bigger utility skills over minions myself. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 17:51, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::I see...some people do that, but the problem I had running a single minion bomber was that it spent more time and energy raising minions than casting Discord so as a result my "spikes" were weaker. Often, I also had to wait for it to finish raising minions after the battle was over. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 18:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::I never wait. O_o even if it means i have no minions. but, like i said, i bring more utility skills so it more or less makes up for it. i'll try it with extra minion skills when i have a chance. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 18:27, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::I generally do the same thing as Danny when it comes to raising minions. If my MM just used minions and there's still corpses around, i'll just keep moving. It doesn't really matter because you have to wait for your MM at the next fight anyways. A single minion bomber has always worked for me because microing discord cancels all other actions. I bound 1, 2, and 3 on the numpad to hero X use skill 1. I've just incorporated that into my caller chain. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 23:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Cool hexer variant ==
-I've been using this one, works pretty well:
-{{scalable skill bar|35px|Assassin's Promise|"You Move Like a Dwarf!"|Fetid Ground|Signet of Toxic Shock|Necrosis|Mark of Pain|Signet of Lost Souls|"Finish Him!"}}
-Against most of the mobs, use {{skill icon|Assassin's Promise}} and {{skill icon|"You Move Like a Dwarf!"}}, followed by {{skill icon|Fetid Ground}} while the foe is knocked down and {{skill icon|Signet of Toxic Shock}} to deal some more damage. Otherwise, you can use {{skill icon|Necrosis}} instead of Fetid Ground and Signet of Toxic Shock. When you fight a boss, use both methods to finish him quickly - first Fetid Ground + Signet of Toxic Shock. Of course, in each of the situations listed above, when foe's health is under 50% use {{skill icon|"Finish Him!"}} and if you're low on energy use {{skill icon|Signet of Lost Souls}}.
-If you're facing a mob with hex removal skills, cast {{skill icon|Mark of Pain}} and {{skill icon|"You Move Like a Dwarf!"}}. When the target foe removes the hex, cast {{skill icon|Assassin's Promise}}. Another way is to cast Assassin's Promise and "You Move Like a Dwarf!" and, while the enemy is knocked down, cover AP with Mark of Pain.
-This build fits any situation and can easily counter hex removal. --[[User:Othrandor Evel|Othrandor Evel]] 17:57, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-:Dont see what you find so good about it, its practically an AP Evas nuker but much worse. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 18:05, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-::An AP EVAS nuker....with no EVAS.... [[File:KJ badge sig.png]] [[User talk:Karate Jesus|<font face="Arial" color="gray" size="1">18:06, 16 June 2009 </font>]]
-:::Well said. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 18:08, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::Try it yourself. If you use it wisely, it's good. It helps killing foes, since sometimes Discord doesn't kill 'em immediately.
-:::::lol dont ask us to try out shit build. ^^ --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 23:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::Try it, before judging. --[[User:Othrandor Evel|Othrandor Evel]] 08:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::EVAS is used because it creates another minion-esque thing to soak up damage, and it also knocklocks whatever you're targeting. Not to mention the damage isn't bad. [[User:Life Guardian|<b><small><font color="black">Life]]</font></small></b>[[Image:WikiLOD7.gif]] 23:07, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-== Effective vs. Multi-healer Groups? ==
-Would this build work well against groups with multi-healers? I've been thinking about taking this build to Lornar's Pass, and there's one group with two Dolyak Masters and a Dolyak Rider. Will I be able to take down a healer faster than the other two can regen him? I was thinking of replacing the Assassin Support with Technobabble for the daze. Thoughts?
-:Just take some enchant removal to remove Mark of Preotection and you should be fine. [[Special:Contributions/75.92.46.118|75.92.46.118]] 02:26, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
-::I heard Discord's recharge was high. Spike 3-2-1 micro-ing takes down pretty much any single target ;o [[Image:Goodnight LA mcsig.png]] [[User talk:Goodnight L A|<font face="Verdana" color="maroon" size="1">02:30, 17 June 2009 </font>]]
-:::Very yes, thats the main reason people run it over Sabway. --[[User:Anonimous.|Anonimous.]] D: 11:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::Take this garbage to Slavers' and see if it works. Plenty of healing dwarves in there to test on.--[[Special:Contributions/74.129.227.63|74.129.227.63]] 08:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::I used a variant of this to do Ice Caves of Sorrow+Bonus on HM (where one group has 4 healers in) aswell as FoW. Just take Rip Enchantment on your Necros and micro it. Well of the Profane can be useful too against multiple Doylaks. [[User:Selket Shadowdancer|Selket Shadowdancer]] 09:14, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::not really the same thing as slavers' HM tbh. --[[User:Mafaraxas|Mafaraxas]] 13:49, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::Nothing works effectively in Slaver's, tbh. Same with Vlox. Only thing you can really do is load up on ranger spirits and not rely on enchants. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 16:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::[[Build:Team_-_GvG_Balanced|lies]]. --[[User:Mafaraxas|Mafaraxas]] 18:22, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-:::::::::We should form up honourable balanced and face off against HM monsters! '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 18:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-::::::::::I believe the original question Marafaxas was with regards to multiple healing in Southern Shiverpeaks, not Eye of the North. With regards to Slavers I have never tried this there yet and have no idea of how it would work there. [[User:Selket Shadowdancer|Selket Shadowdancer]] 07:48, 3 July 2009 (UTC)
-==For warrior/paragon==
-Drop the Sorrow Discord's minions for Succor [[User:TedTheFarmer|TedTheFarmer]] 22:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
-:A very good tactic, since you don't really need a third minion caster.  I did try this seriously.  It may make this build work for a Paragon, but a Warrior's base energy is still much too low, which is by far the more serious problem.
-== Completion ==
-Has the build itself as it appears on the build page, after this whopping huge discussion been made better for it? I mean, has it reached it's optimum strength in terms of skill choices and effectiveness? Is it as good as it will get for the moment? I recognise due to individual layer variation on choices will make slightly different optimum configurations but if someone was to just take the build off the page and use it, would it be at it's best? [[User:Saul Lachance|Saul Lachance]] 16:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
-: Also there's no suggestion on what henchmen to use if you were H/H-ing it. [[User:Saul Lachance|Saul Lachance]] 16:36, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
-::"Best" is entirely subjective. There's disputes about how many minion skills you need, whether or not SoLS is worth a skill slot, etc. People play differently, and if you can't functionally modify a build to fit where you're running it/what you're running it with, you need to not run this. As for henchmen, take the best ones. Henchmen ability is non-subjective. There's guides to henchmen selection somewhere, probably on Guru. Perhaps I'll write up a guide later. '''···'''&nbsp;<span style="font-family:times new roman; font-size:12px;font-weight:800;border:1px solid black;">[[User:Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Danny</span>]] [[User_talk:Daññy|<span style="color:#000000;">Does</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Daññy|<span style="color:#FF00C4;">Drugs</span>]]</span> 15:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 == "Self-Sustaining?" ==