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(Tactics warrior /w HB's?)
(Tactics warrior /w HB's?)
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::Under QZ, Charge would actually cover the whole party by itself anyway, though that's unreliable. I guess what it comes down to is whether an elite on one character is worth single slot on all four warriors and the PnH. Certainly looks like it could work though. [[Special:Contributions/86.26.103.165|86.26.103.165]] 12:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
::Under QZ, Charge would actually cover the whole party by itself anyway, though that's unreliable. I guess what it comes down to is whether an elite on one character is worth single slot on all four warriors and the PnH. Certainly looks like it could work though. [[Special:Contributions/86.26.103.165|86.26.103.165]] 12:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:::or, you could just switch out rush for 2 coppies of retreat on the hbs. only speedboost 90% of the time (18 of 20 secs) but 33% vs. rushs 25% and partywide instead of earshot like charge. Frees up barb. slash and 3 optionals on the team. [[User:FMK-|FMK-]] 14:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
 
:::or, you could just switch out rush for 2 coppies of retreat on the hbs. only speedboost 90% of the time (18 of 20 secs) but 33% vs. rushs 25% and partywide instead of earshot like charge. Frees up barb. slash and 3 optionals on the team. [[User:FMK-|FMK-]] 14:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  +
::::With QZ up, one retreat alone should be enough, and the other war could bring bull's or whatever. Two retreats would be safer though, and would at the very least allow for barb over sever, which is awesome. [[Special:Contributions/86.26.103.165|86.26.103.165]] 22:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 22:30, August 12, 2009

Discussion

easily counters teaseway with 3 5 second casts which provide half of it's pressure eh?^_^ Brandnew. 08:21, 13 February 2009 (EST)

all of which are not spells. Brandnew. 08:21, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Tease and CoF work on skills, dum nob. RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 08:23, 13 February 2009 (EST)
^^^ two skills, not everyone brings cof either. and u have oath shot.. ..LJ.. 08:29, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Usually 2Tease and 1CoF. Fire Magic fucks over your spirits, too. RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 08:33, 13 February 2009 (EST)
no, fire magic doesnt. Only a dipshit would put spirits anywhere near each other ..LJ.. 08:37, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Most eles bring 3 Heats. crazyCowcow 08:41, 13 February 2009 (EST)
an ele who wastes all their skills trying to kill spiri will come back faster than their recharge, is dumb. well if your backline isnt dumb and doesnt stand in the middle of everything. ..LJ.. 08:50, 13 February 2009 (EST)
An ele who keeps the spirits down is smart by crippling the healers preventing condition removal, and large heals without drawbacks.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 08:58, 13 February 2009 (EST)
"If you see a build submitted by Lukejohnson, I strongly suggest that you trash vote it because it's probably terrible." ---Chaos- 08:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)
like the LA sin? ..LJ.. 08:55, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Obvious build was obvious. Brandnew. 09:00, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Lol, an ele just targetting your spirits is actually very smart, as the spirits are ALL your pressure and ALL your defense (well, your n/rt's rely on them) RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 09:09, 13 February 2009 (EST)

they're ele rits. ---Chaos- 09:09, 13 February 2009 (EST)
...even worse RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 09:13, 13 February 2009 (EST)

"an ele who wastes all their skills trying to kill spiri will come back faster than their recharge, is dumb. well if your backline isnt dumb and doesnt stand in the middle of everything. ..LJ.. 08:50, 13 February 2009 (EST)" What the hell? Your spirits

If they'd be good he wouldn't use it. Ether Prism is better against team spikes than solo sinspikes. ---Chaos- 09:20, 13 February 2009 (EST)
You have at least 4 available corpses early in the game, so not takning animate bone minions and n/rt's is just stupid. RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 09:20, 13 February 2009 (EST)


"an ele who wastes all their skills trying to kill spiri will come back faster than their recharge, is dumb. well if your backline isnt dumb and doesnt stand in the middle of everything. ..LJ.. 08:50, 13 February 2009 (EST)" What the hell? Heats recharge faster than every spirit in that build except Life. crazyCowcow 09:45, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Oath Shot. ---Chaos- 09:46, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Ok, I didn't see that. But Rodgort's. crazyCowcow 09:53, 13 February 2009 (EST)
An ele can spam rodgort's for a bit, but it gets energy intensive.even with gole..LJ.. 09:59, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Right about when your team is dead. ---Chaos- 10:02, 13 February 2009 (EST)
oh. and dont gorget the -12 energy denial going around every 8~ seconds ..LJ.. 10:04, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Good thing eles have about 70 energy :> RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 10:09, 13 February 2009 (EST)
how often do u play ele spamming rodgort's on recharge with having -12 energy on your every 8ish seconds ?..LJ.. 10:14, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Lmao? Anti-tease way where everyone gangs around 1 ele with WoS/WoW on it. ---Chaos- 10:22, 13 February 2009 (EST)
........................... wtf? Heard of nearby range? ..LJ.. 10:25, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Nearby is the size of a ward. You assume everyone stands in 1 ward when you put it up? ---Chaos- 14:35, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Stop being fucking retarded every single fire ele goes spirit hunting in HA. Not that it means spirit spam doesn't work. Rawrawr Dinosaur 10:44, 13 February 2009 (EST)

saw this win halls on multiple occacions, does this mean it's good or just dead hours or brave players were on it?
Yeah, even teaseway has one fire ele, and some of your spirits will get killed... mind you, if they use up their firepower on the spirits then the spirits aren't completely wasted, and once QZ is up even killing it will take more energy.
(@ Ricky) Btw, pets stopped leaving usable corpses like half a year ago, so you're gonna have a job making Bone Minions out of them... 86.31.159.72 17:18, 13 February 2009 (EST)
Aw, right, good update, fucken heroway :> RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 08:49, 14 February 2009 (EST)

PnH+Tranq makes me sad. Jebuspachi-1-1.jpgMcPachirisu 09:36, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Yea PnH is totally for the 5 second enchantment after it cleans someone FrostrageFrosty po! 09:42, 15 February 2009 (EST)

TBH, this actually doesn't look like a bad IWAY build.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 10:27, 15 February 2009 (EST)

TBH, u bad. RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 10:44, 15 February 2009 (EST)
"TBH, this actually doesn't look like a bad IWAY build." never said it was a good overall build, just a good IWAY build.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 11:51, 15 February 2009 (EST)
My jinglebear told me this IWAY is bad so it must be bad RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 10:51, 15 February 2009 (EST)
A BUILD BASED AROUND GETTING YOUR PETS KILLED. WHAT. THE. FUCK. ARE YOU FUCKING NUTS??!? RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 11:07, 15 February 2009 (EST)
That concept seemed to work pretty well for 2 years.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 11:52, 15 February 2009 (EST)
rhetorical conversation ftl Jebuspachi-1-1.jpgMcPachirisu 11:24, 15 February 2009 (EST)
how do you figure? ---Chaos- 11:27, 15 February 2009 (EST)

Honestly, I love how because LJ posts this build everyone automatically says its bad, its pretty much the biggest show of Autism I have seen on this wiki yet (aside from Amorbot Terrorize) FrostrageFrosty po! 22:52, 18 February 2009 (EST)

But no! It must be bad, why would everyone then be starting to run it, and i even have a welcome template saying my builds are trash? no? ..LJ.. 05:38, 19 February 2009 (EST)
Lol this is pretty much the main meta. gogogo The Immolate Invert Wojo 22:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
And for once this wiki had the meta build up just before it became meta. ..LJ.. 12:13, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
I hope you find solace in the fact that one of your actions may or may not have made the game even more shit. ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn 12:24, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

tbh this is a great build, look at the synergies!!!! the synergies!!

No. i like IWAY. who cares if it's shit to play against, it's fun ..LJ.. 12:46, 21 February 2009 (UTC)
sign ffs ---Chaos- 10:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

lots of non build related crap moved to User_talk:Lukejohnson

changed "can't touch this" to "brace yourself" on the pnh, fall back is being run as well. because tbh "can't touch this" is pretty fail on anything other than mc hammer.(now with signature)134.109.89.1 08:49, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

NO. but it is now with IWAY meta. And Also counter's shock on PR wars. but meh ..LJ.. 11:17, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

what about bull's strike on 1 warr instead of agonizing? helps a lot in general but especially chasing runners.... - Ins420sig420 20:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

??? you have brage. and when they're running they aren't healing. and when they stop. you dchop ..LJ.. 20:02, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
true yes that's how it works, but u could BS & make them totally useless for 3 sec & get 3sec of free dmg/adren, then dchop immediately when they get up to heal, same difference rly but more dmg. plus like i said, makes it that much easier to catch relic/runners if u get that far/care. - Ins420sig420 20:19, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I know someone probably pointed this out before at some point, but couldnt this be countered very easily by just not attacking the pets? Maybe a team that concentrated on precise damage with little/no AoE damage? sure the pets would add a little extra damage but im pretty sure without IWAY itself the team would fall to bits. 86.162.73.235 03:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Ranger

Am I missing something or are the ranger atts impossible? Would have to be exp=11, wild=11, earth=8, right? Also, I can't help but think Predatory Season would be great if it could fit, maybe instead of Tranquility? - Ins420sig420 18:39, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. no ..LJ.. 18:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
iirc pred season was broken so it triggered twice when orders were up, so it's not all that good now, still good though. Maybe add veriants for dshot, the bad player pugs run dusttrap instead. Oh and weapon of shadow is prefered over li ming on the rit. 134.109.89.1 19:12, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
that's coz mi ling sucks balls. and no1 with a brain runs it. And dust trap works against all the pug enemy teams that use wars/sins to attack your spirits, oh. and against the meta. which would be IWAY ..LJ.. 19:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
So in other words, Pred Season was only used cuz of it's bugged interaction w/orders? Sry IDK cuz I only played IWAY recently w/similar setup as this page. Just seemed to me PS would be an OK fit here. - Ins420sig420 18:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
old iway was more focused on damage overload so pred season had overall more synergie. new iway wins more because of shutdown after some time.

When you use bull's strike, it will end battle rage, making you lose all adrenaline.

Battle rage got updated lol. Rawrawr Dinosaur 20:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
And even better, no Bull's in the bars. ---Chaos- 20:20, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
read the discussion imo134.109.89.1 21:18, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
That being related to what? ---Chaos- 08:26, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
bull's strike is being discussed as an alternative in the warriors' bars, that's why the anon mentioned it. so saying it isn't in the bar(yet) doesn't make sense134.109.89.1 08:35, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
The anon sucks at inserting comments where they belong... And I don't think people run this with bstrike. 33% ims kinda does the caching of foes if necessary. ---Chaos- 09:05, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Add d-shot back into the oath ranger, it's too good for fucking with ele's and ps sins that camp you. Dust trap is nice but gl using that much if you're keeping QZ up. Also, consider using natty stride over whirling defense or at least list as alternative. Great mobility skill especially with 12 in wilderness. Zero 13:00, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

First point - down to preference tbh. i would ratehr have both as optional than 1 mainbar. As dsot does little say, against iway. Dshotting their spirits does nothing. And Whirling is better, and can eb kept up almost constant, and more blockign tbh — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 17:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
iway still isn't that common and dshot wtfpwnz everything else(and dshot on warding still hurts), one could argue against dshot though that most people that run iway rangers can't really nail interrupts. 134.109.89.1 17:23, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Hard to dshot when spamming spirits, but yeah, still duable. and it is common... — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 17:27, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

lol

iway, just have to say that--Relyk 07:27, 25 February 2009 (UTC)~

HEY RELyK, YOU ARE A VERY GOOD PLAYER. Brandnew. 09:04, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Fk no, im terrible--Relyk 09:10, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Wars wasted energy

seems to me like the warriors are wasting the effects of QZ, as well as their energy . maybe they should bring an attack skill with a moderate recharge (shortened by QZ) to use their energy?Hipowi 00:18, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

no--Goldenstar 00:27, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
QZ affects IWAY and "Fear Me!", there's no reason to bring worse skills just to have "more" synergy and less energy. ---Chaos- 07:15, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

This is crap

At the end of this day this just doesn't have nearly the same pressure the pre-nerf steady stance / fear me! IWAY had. The Oath Shot is ridiculously easy to counter and a minor annoyance at best, PnH monk is usually fairly vulnerable and doesn't contribute to offense at all and the prism healers are vulnerable too when QZ doesn't stay up. If you have decent warriors it can work...but hey this is IWAY! I think this needs to be rethought as something with para healers and a different strategy for enchantment removal, or maybe it's time to give up on trying to bring back IWAY. It's lame, it's kinda fun (in moderation) and it brings back old memories but it just doesn't work anymore... Zero.Six

Meta builds are usually ones that can be picked up by pugs and can win 1-3 matches per streak. Good people can run it and do decently well. With 4 warriors spamming edenial, interrupts, 33% ims/ias constant, you dont need a pnh to add pressure, you need it to add defense. It may be weaker then the old steady stance version, but this meta is a lot of offense (the only defense usually being foes/grasping/tease) so this can roll teams if they stay up long enough. Rawrawr Dinosaur 23:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
IWAY got nerfed to 25% IAS ;o ---Chaos- 12:43, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
oh i guess that disproves my entire statement. Rawrawr Dinosaur 14:15, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Should I respond with sarcasm or say I was just being a strict Nazi bitch? ---Chaos- 14:37, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Lol. IWAY is great in current meta — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 18:20, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Weapon of Warding got raped

Shenkie 19:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

errr.... no it didnt. You don't wow the warriors, you heal them. they have 100 base AL... you wow ranger + pnh and backline — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 19:36, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
SO TEMPTED TO YM. Brandnew. 19:37, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

What about aura of restoration? I heard 1 energy whenever u cast a spell is good, even with tranquility Shenkie 19:42, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

LOL. don't even comment on things where you obviously have no experience and can't even theorycraft — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 19:44, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

wow thats some good advise... That just makes no sense at all.. Shenkie 19:45, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Lol Luke stfu Aura is actually discussable. Smurf Ohai 19:47, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
no. it isn't... there's nothign to replace it with. and wow is still amazingly good. Also you'd rather take out one of the only prots in the build out to... heal yourself? as energy is fine — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 19:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC) — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 19:52, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
It's discussable only if you are dropping some other skill instead of wow. Wow is still guardian on steroids; without it your ether prism backline is going to drop in two seconds.Lightningbolt siguɐɟɐʞıd 19:56, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
and no other skill is worth getting rid of. not even wos, because that's a very strong rit prot — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 20:03, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Warriors ...

Could they be, like, other kinds of warriors ? Like hammer, sword or scythe or I-dont-know-what ? Stoella 23:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

no. less damage + less intterupts (if any) — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 00:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
You can run normal bars (evis/earthshaker) with IWAY and pet but then you'll only get kills if your warriors aren't terrible. ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn [a] 00:10, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
The fear me spamming and dchopping struff is more effective at shutting them down and then rolling — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 12:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Then it's still possible ... Fun builds > Lame and boring builds. 82.241.65.62 13:36, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

would have been interesting with old endurance... seeing as you could get a non-stance iasHipowi 01:25, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

pnh

needs an update imo since brace yourself doesn't work against ps sins. i suggest fall back. 217.87.217.24 20:23, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

i thought it was updated? and it does work. WoW should be on the guy, and then brace yourself stops the 1 hit that should go through. but yeh — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 20:40, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Brace doesn't work vs trampling since it's a dual attack, first hit doesn't KD but second does. Big, stop being bad and put fall back back in.--Goldenstar 21:39, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
You do it. You're the build master. :> Big sadface sigBiggles Strongfist™ Sysop 21:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
OH LOOK BIGGY! :< — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 21:55, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Luke, PvX:Chill, before I ban your ass. Big sadface sigBiggles Strongfist™ Sysop 21:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
yeah but i'm a lazy fuck who cba to do anything :<--Goldenstar 22:16, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Already done, sir. Big sadface sigBiggles Strongfist™ Sysop 22:19, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Wild Blow

Put Wild Blow on one of the warriors instead of agonizing to counter the resolve most SH's are running now. Losing all adrenaline isn't going to matter much with battle rage, it's better to be able to d-chop / d-shot some of their nukes so spirits stay up a little longer. Zero.Six 14:14, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

that's an incredible reduction in damage output, also ends Battle Rage and leaves you without the adrenaline to reactivate it....... ---Chaos- 14:59, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Not that "incredible". BR is 4 adrenaline so it'll take about 4 seconds to get it back up again. It's actually a pretty good suggestion. RickyRicksawsmfacevantof 15:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
meh if you rupt a couple of their skills while mantra is on and spam fear me their energy explodes pretty fast anyway217.87.239.74 15:11, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
It is a little annoying that battle rage ends and you lose all adrenaline but with iway going it charges back up fast, and I'm only suggesting this for 1 warrior. When an ele nukes all the oath's spirits the moment they come up that does kill your pressure...and no e-denial is not an option since their attunement stays up and they have GoLE. 50%+ SH eles are running resolve now so I think it's worth countering since teaseway in particular relies on the SH being able to nuke. Zero.Six 15:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Wild throw on the PnH would be manlier ;o Good suggestion though. Brandnew. 15:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
orite, only on 1 war. Disregard what I preached. ---Chaos- 15:42, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
they already lose enrgy when u dchop their skills etc, and you are spamming fear me, so the ele will end up running out of energy and won't be able to often use rodgort's and heats may sometimes be costly unless gole is up. so its an ok suggestion, but i would say edenial is enough, and you want to spam interrupts on everything up, and that 4 seconds is a long time to get br up when you could have just spammed your skills on every 4 hits it would have taken to get br back up. — LukeJohnson LJ BS Sig 17:23, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Actually I always seem to be able to get my rodgort's off, either people are too terrible to even try to rupt it, or they just can't be fucked to defend their spirits (I'm amazing, I spirit hunt with rodgort's ;o) Brandnew. 21:22, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wild Blow doesn't actually end Battle Rage it just loses you your adren so you can't keep it up, so as long as you don't use Wild Blow just before BRage is gonna end anyway you should have long enough to charge it back up no trouble with the IAS from "IWAY!" and the +33% adrenaline gain BR gives you (plus the +33% IMS to catch kiters). 86.31.119.66 14:24, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Battle Rage ends when you use a non-adrenal skill (aka Wild Blow) Frostysig9000FrostytheAdmin 14:29, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
Oh yeah, thought there was something I was forgetting :-).

usage

someone make one--Relyk 07:24, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Press skills as they light up. Win.--IkimonoNeeds more "good" ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 09:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
oh, i forgot, /dance /rank 3.--IkimonoNeeds more "good" ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 09:06, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Add to notes--Relyk 09:08, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

PnH Monk

Is there any reason that there aren't Healing/Prot runes on that monk? Toraen 21:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Considering its the only real gankable target, health ftw? Rawrawr Dinosaur 22:26, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
There's not a real need for the +1 prot rune. Either more armor or more health is better.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 04:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
scratch the more armor...had a moment of insignia mixup--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 04:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

zzzZ

people run bulls strike over fear me now. too tired to edit it in. FMK- 22:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

fear me causes more pressure over time. Asstons of AoE energy denial > a chance of a KD every 12 seconds.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 04:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Correction - Good players use Bull's as they can land one 80% of the time and can kncokdown the foe for 3 seconds almost every 6 seconds with QZ. This is a lot of pressure, but less skilled players need "Fear Me! as it requires less skill to use, but takes much longer to apply the pressure. Good players can roll with IWAY. Most teams use "Fear Me!" because they can't. That is why i placed to skill bars for IWAYsExo Oo 11:40, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Correction: good players don't run retarded builds. Bad players can still hit with bulls because they have constant 33% IMS. ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn [a] 11:56, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
lol do you play ha? Exo Oo 12:14, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, why? ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn [a] 12:17, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
because u just said good players don't run retarded builds Exo Oo 12:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
If semantics are an issue feel free to replace 'retarded builds' with 'IWAY'. At any rate, there are not a lot of good players left. ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn [a] 12:36, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
in HA experience = goodness. So good players have spent their whoel life there. coz they can do relics and altar Exo Oo 12:39, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
Not really, people that just farm with the same gimmick are going to be rather terrible at a different build or dealing with a new situation. It's silly to say that skill doesn't play a role. ~ Tycncookiesig Tycn [a] 13:00, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Bulls is much better but w/e. Only reason for fear me is to fuck up the fire ele so after 3-4 mins he cant kill your spirits so you do super pressure. Its probably best to run a mix, but i doubt any IWAYers are gonna do something like that soon. Rawrawr Dinosaur 13:33, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Yup. 3 second knockdowns every 5 seconds when QZ up is strong pressure Exo Oo 19:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
It does end your IAS. OK, you can easily reapply it, but having to do so every 5 seconds with QZ up hurts your adrenaline gain. Ofc, it's still worth it. 86.26.97.84 21:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
u wot? Exo Oo 22:01, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Funny to see Bull's main bar'd weeks after I suggested it [for one warrior] a page up. I'd personally sub it for one of the interrupts tho, rather than Fear Me. - Ins420sig420 21:17, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

not reli funny tbh. happens a lot Exo Oo 17:04, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
But fear me is bad except on the fire eles and ints are good =\ Rawrawr Dinosaur 17:32, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
People realise that for a monk to try and go through "Fear Me!" that they have to switch to their +30e set...which leads to them having 0 energy, which leads to people dying quickly after the monks run out of energy.--IkimonoNeeds more ParagonMonk-Paragon-icon 04:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Yea, or maybe not. Brandnew 08:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
lolchanneling Frostysig9000FrostytheAdmin 08:42, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
fear me doesn't add up to pressureo n monks until after like 10 minutes tbh Exo Oo 11:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Heh, "Its probably best to run a mix, but i doubt any IWAYers are gonna do something like that soon". Nice to see people running two of each recently. Anyway Fear Me! under QZ *is* pretty heavy pressure if multiple people run it, since you're looking at the equivalent of ~1.5 pips of degen (assuming hitting enough to charge adrenaline quickly, double adrenaline from BRage, and that all Fear Me!s hit), at least when combined with NR and Tranq to ruin Channeling. However, imo you really need direct enchantment removal to strip channeling to really push it home. 86.27.95.41 16:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

More spirits/team regen vs anti-"otherteamballingsotheycannukeyou"

Vote (Maelstrom vs recup btw Exo Oo 12:11, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

you see recup is shit because it will get rupted or die in seconds so you gain no benefit from it and it kills your energy. but just ignore the meta, fine with me. FMK- 20:51, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
l2position. Frostysig9000FrostytheAdmin 21:00, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
The only map that maelstrom will be needed for though is underworld posssibly fetid ground and the one after that. Recup will be much better in relics and any altar map or in HoH Exo Oo 21:33, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
So what, Recup 2, Mael 1? 86.27.95.41 16:38, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I don't care

If ranger is meta, basically as everyone knows what to do it's countered ALL of the time. The spirits are never alive for more than like 3 seconds unless against a terribad team. And it doesn't have much else going for it other than dshot in a four man rupting frontline. I vote to change it Exo Oo 13:41, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

To what, exactly? 86.27.95.41 13:51, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I don't know. i've made my own IWAY, but its completely different. but it needs to be replaced with something better. and e/rts can be changed for monks, but that depends on wether you want to or not. just something which adds offense or defence instead of just spamming spirits that die Exo Oo 13:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
The spirits are kind of a big point of the build as it is atm, though. They replace direct enchantment removal, apply energy denial and make EP extra overpowered. Your main problem is people taking them down so much. 86.27.95.41 14:44, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
the spirits are never up. so therefore answer me "why have them?". Positioning still does shit Exo Oo 15:54, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The thing is, the spirits are necessary. Without them IWAY won't score kills. It's the 3-4 seconds that QZ and NR stay up that lets you dchop guardian or SoA and score the kill that breaks the camel's back. Ranger is vital--Goldenstar 16:02, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

but you can still dchop shit without it. and a pd completely stops spirits Exo Oo 16:14, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes but most people don't run pb b/c they're bad. It's worth keeping the ranger--Goldenstar 16:16, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
I still think putting something in to increase damage or something is better. Exo Oo 16:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
IMO you'd be better off trying to find a way to make the spirits live longer. You already have interrupt spamming and DShot to shut down fire eles, for example, but maybe more anti-caster, blind vs melee (Dust Trap or Mingson?) or even a Rt/R for spawning (not sure that's worth it though) or something akin to Spirit Boon Strike. The only problem is most of these ideas are bad :-( 86.27.95.41 16:22, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Lol you don't have to waste your fire eles if you don't want to. just send a non-balanced-spiking frontliner to pressure ranger and kill all of his spirits. You can't make them last longer if you wanted to. Exo Oo 16:28, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes you could but it probably wouldn't be worth it. If your spirit-spammer used Blind was Mingson, Signet of Binding or Signet of Creation, for example, you could easily toughen up your spirits or otherwise make it harder for enemies to kill them. The only problem is the time, energy, and (most importantly) skill slots you have to devote to keeping them alive versus how much damage they do and how much harder you make life for the enemy team. 86.27.95.41 16:36, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

The spirits actually stick for quite a while if you aren't completely terrible at the ranger bar. Just takes common sense, really. 82.9.18.53 16:30, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

lol no they don't. even if you're pro at dshotting shit and use glitches to stop projectiles they dont stay up long unless the other team is terribad Exo Oo 16:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Thats a nice story. You can dodge interrupts really easily (natures renewal is 5 energy... on a ranger...) and the fire ele is also very easy to dodge. Theres nothing else that really counters the spirits, other than a war or derv coming up to kill them, but nobody does that because you end up putting them in a WaF and they waste ~1 minute trying to kill your spirits and then return to the team, and due to the whole massive iway defence thing, its just not worth it. 82.9.18.53 16:53, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The spirits aren't that hard to take down, but it's true that the do soak up some enemy firepower even if they do die, which indirectly adds to your defense. They would be better if they stayed up, though, because keeping a frontliner out of the game for a few seconds or wasting a Searing Heat isn't as good as having enemy enchantments cast at half the speed and run out in half the time et.c. 82.3.246.41 17:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Wasting a searing heat? If you aren't actually that retarded its pretty easy to avoid fire eles. 82.9.18.53 17:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
by god you're right! becoz you couldn't use searing on the actual spirit and not ranger and realise that your spells all recharge in time for the next spiritExo Oo 18:00, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Wow, this wiki really is filled with low tiger scrubs who don't know anything. Dodging heats is amazingly easy. Dchopping heats is even easier (......................) and you even have dshot for when your war is terrible. Wow. 82.9.18.53 18:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Dear Luke, if you think you are better than the metagame, be better than the metagame, win halls a million times then watch everyone else copy you. Until then, STFU. Misery CowMisery Says Moo 18:09, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Lol read more carefully, "wasting a Searing Heat" means that even if that enemy fire ele kills your spirit, he or she has used up a Searing Heat which could have been doing damage to your team, which is an advantage of having the spirits, whether big or not (and it's clearly not as big as the spirit's inherent bonus). And btw, DShot can only interrupt one skill at once, and most eles will have both Searing and Teinai's as well as Rodgort's et.c. and it doesn't go through walls. It doesn't mean that taking the spirits is a bad idea, though. 82.3.246.41 18:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I have no idea what post you are replying to, as nobody has brought those points into dispute. 82.9.18.53 18:41, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
OR! spirits don't actually last long. You arguing with the meta? STFU. The actual effectiveness of it is what i'm debating Exo Oo 18:46, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Yes, and as I've said, its not our fault you are too dumb to dodge heats and cancel cast. 82.9.18.53 18:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
lol. dodge heats that are targetting spirits. and no ofc people don't cancel>dshot. ofc not. but skills still recharge in time for the ele to kill spirits Exo Oo 19:13, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Jesus christ you're stupid. Have you ever learnt to argue or use some form or reasoning in your entire life? Of course you can dodge heats you fucking retard. 82.9.18.53 19:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
EXPLAIN HOW. I thought spirits can't move. You don't target the fucking rangerExo Oo 20:36, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
It's pretty well established that you are a bad player Luke. Just drop it. Misery CowMisery Says Moo 06:29, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
The only argument I can't find against you luke is, why does everybody still use them still? The simple fact is although they may not last awfully long, you can get the back up with ease and while they are up they do a good job of fucking over enchants/hexes/energy etc. Frostysig9000FrostytheAdmin 06:32, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Exactly. Like I said half a page up, they are easy to take down (Luke's right that once you've put one down you can't "dodge" heats, and though you can DShot them most fire eles will have more than one damaging fire skill) but they're still worth it for the pressure they apply.
@82.9.18.53: to answer "I have no idea what post you are replying to, as nobody has brought those points into dispute" I was replying to your weird comment "Wasting a searing heat? If you aren't actually that retarded its pretty easy to avoid fire eles" above.

Fear Me!

So what we got Fear Me! wars without Fear Me! now? Or is this just some random guy making odd changes? Either way the main page could do with a tidy. 82.3.246.41 16:17, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

after the update

we thought after some matches that we had too few hex removals so we swaped aos for deny hexes. took halls with it too. so yeah possible mainbar or variant. FMK- 04:41, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

After the update, yea, that probably would be best.--Ikimono"a rabid grizzly bear"Monk-Paragon-icon 05:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

After the next update

Ether Prism got its recharge put up to 20, and Weapon of Warding now last 7 seconds I think on non-rits, and Weapon of Shadow got similarly nerfed, so what does this mean for the backline? Certainly they will now be less effective but are they just no longer overpowered or will they actually struggle to work? 86.26.56.226 09:58, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think it'd be affected that much cos of QZ? Spaggage talk 10:46, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Well yeah, under QZ, EP will take 10 seconds to recharge (it used to take 8, 'cos it round up I think) and though under QZ you'll also be able to keep WoW up on someone, it'll be less energy-efficient. Also, QZ can (and often is) easily killed. However I don't think it's going to make that much difference, it'll just lower the effectiveness a smidge. 86.26.56.226 15:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
or we could switch to a backline that didn't get specifically nerfed. just a thought. ··· Danny Does Drugs 16:25, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Just saw a few Rt/A's in ha that use OoS and dark escape how about that? Shenkie 20:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I would prefer smoke powder defense over dark escape, but it is viable --Frosty Mc Admin 21:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I would prefer TwT rits, but I also have a hardon for TwT. ··· Danny Does Drugs 21:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I made a build with a TwT N/Rt backline once. It failed. Thing is the backline needs good energy management - N/Rts had soul reaping, E/Rt have Ether Prism. N/Rts also had OoS sometimes too. If you took proper Rits they would probably need OoS, but then they get runes too so their spells would heal for more, WoW would last longer (Spawning) and they would probably be able to get decent energy from OoS. It would also give you a secondary for /W or /A self-defense or whatever, but tbh prism healers will still probably work, just slightly less well. 86.26.56.226 10:22, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Anyway just obsed a HoH match with an IWAY group (they lost 25-27-27 to Death Is Energy) and they had Rt/As, one with Bloodsong, one with Life, both appeared to have OoS, Spirit Light, MBaS, Spirit Transfer, WoW, WoS and Dark Escape. Interestingly they had one Earth Shaker and 3 sword wars, though ofc I haven't been in enough HA recently to know how much of this is meta tbh. 86.26.56.226 10:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
lol[DIE] Brandnew 12:00, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Well it was the first match I obsed with an IWAY team. A lot of people still seem to be using E/Rts though. 86.26.56.226 13:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Rt/A does actually seem to be a good idea with spawning buff Exo Oo 13:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
Well tbh all you get from being E/Rt is prism (good but now slightly less good) and a bigger energy pool. As long as you have enough energy management to put you on a par with prism, Rt primary makes sense since you get resto runes and now +4% per spawning to weapon spell durations. And longer WoW means less casting (or just more WoW) which is either less energy cost or even more imba defence. 86.26.56.226 14:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
OK Frosty's put the Rt/As on the page but what about Weapon of Shadow? The ones I saw had it instead of PwK I think but regardless I would have thought it might have gone in there somewhere (especially now WoW won't work on Wars or Ghostly). Also just as a side note, could you feasibly have Rt/Mos with some hex removal too? Admittedly with PnH this doesn't seem necessary but depending these might see use in future builds. 86.26.56.226 15:01, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually though OoS seems to be the new meta, why not take Spirit Siphon? Now that it's been buffed you can actually gain more energy from it than from OoS, with a little skill, and it frees up your elite slot - so you could take TwT, though bar space would be an issue. The main problem you might have with Siphon is that it won't work as well if two people use it, but at the very least you could have one OoS and one Siphon with, say, WoR, which it seems to be would be much more efficient. 86.26.56.226 14:44, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Tbh the bar for rits only has one place left, MBaS, Spirit Light, Spirit Transfer, PwK, Spirit, Self Defence and then last slot is free, OoS is by far the best thing to take. Also, I do agree that Siphon Spirit is good but with 2 it could end up with confusion. --Frosty Mc Admin 15:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
I know, bar space is the big problem, but using an elite which could replace a skill on there might work. The only problem is that TwT can't replace PwK since though it's similar and gives a better armour boost, it doesn't heal the party when it ends. WoR could replace MBaS (in essence it's the same, but faster) but then it doesn't heal for as much. Possibly Preservation could replace Life or Bloodsong (it has a faster recharge than Bloodsong). I think part of the problem is just that the rit non-elites are so powerful and the elites aren't. Possibly Gladiator's Defense or Auspicious Parry could replace your self-defense? :-).
Oh wait, I got it, "YAA!" Rit healers! Cripple and debuff anyone who attacks you and snare the enemy backline too! 86.26.56.226 11:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Woh, woh, woh...BACK THE FUCK UP...

Did this last update actually make Rit healers viable due to longer weapon spells etc? Or am I just in shock and awe for seeing a rit primary healing backline being posted and accepted by the community?Ikimono"My beard is thick."Monk-Paragon-icon 11:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

osorry, did you want a two monk backline with NR/Tranq? Misery CowMisery Says Moo 11:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
The Rit healers are actually no more powerful than they were. All the weapon spells got nerfed, and the spawning buff just counteracts that. In fact, depending on the exact attribute spread, most Rits will find that even their weapon spells are weaker (long duration ones like Brutal will last longer though). However, E/Rts, N/Rts and Anything-else/Rts are now weaker than before (especially with the Prism nerf) so these are better than they were by comparison. As Misery points out, however, it's the fact you have NR and Tranq which forces you to take a less powerful backline since it's more powerful than a monk one would be in this situation. 86.26.56.226 11:57, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It's not that, it's just the shock of Rits being actually accepted as primary healers, that's all.--Ikimono"My beard is thick."Monk-Paragon-icon 12:30, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, it's pretty shocking, but it's just the fact that everything else has been nerfed. Also, I guess PvX people tend to be like "Oh look it was on obs mode it's meta let's add it!" regardless of what it is (they will 5-5 one day what they trashed another if some guild starts running it or something). Fickle lot, really. 86.26.56.226 12:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
So I decided to try this finally, although it looked uber gayass. I joined a team, locked my pet onto the mesmer or whatever, and started kicking his ass with my longbow. Then they all started bitching and kicked me. What the fuck did I do? :D Ben Tbh 07:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Know what wins? Getting ultra-quick answers. Ben Tbh 07:54, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Your pet is suppose to die, and wtf are you using a longbow? Zyke-Sig 08:09, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Against the Zaishen guys...I'm supposed to use longbow to gain adrenaline... O_O Thanks for the response by the way. Ben Tbh 08:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Did you stand on the compass or did you start attacking and run up to start killing the mesmer. If that's the case, you simply need to stay on the compass or you trigger the timer.--Ikimono"My beard is thick."Monk-Paragon-icon 11:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
If you triggered the timer then that's probably. When you go towards the zaishen you will see a sort of extended platform before you go down the ramp, on the platform there is an eye which if you cross, the timer will begin. But if you stand just on the eye you can use a longbow to lock your pet on the closest target as well as build adrenaline. --Frosty Mc Admin 11:55, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah you have to make sure you click on the eye rather than just try to attack the nearest foe, though, iirc, since otherwise your character will run right across it, which starts the timer due to the shoddy trigger placement :-) 82.13.41.163 12:04, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, thanks a lot guys. Good to see some PvX'ers that aren't total elitists. ^^ Ben Tbh 21:05, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
oh, don't get us wrong. we're all elitist fucks. it's just that when a whoru comes along and doesn't straight up QQ or rage, we're a lot more helpful and open. what goes around, comes around, etc. we're a lot more receptive to people who don't act like this guy. ;o ··· Danny-sig 03:32, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, coz i actually only come on this to take up my few spare minutes annoying fags. Exo Oo 09:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
See, he even admits it. Of course, calling us fags is unnecessary. We prefer "elitist fucks". ··· Danny-sig 16:34, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I'd rather help someone get good quick. Especially if they come out honestly confused.--Ikimono"My beard is thick."Monk-Paragon-icon 16:57, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
To quote, "he who askes a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not is a fool for life." 82.3.254.219 10:20, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Exo seems like a winner. --Ben Tbh 07:37, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
wat ··· Danny-sig 17:28, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
/sarcasm Ben Tbh 19:29, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

REAL equipment

some1 feel like adding in a proper equipment for the builds atm its just attribute point runes, no weapon sets, no real rune setup and no insignia setup

no, because that would mean it would be harder to tell who the shitters are when forming. ··· Danny-sig 17:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Lol..Shitters in IWAY ? I would NEVER have thought so. Bad players play bad build.

Why do people even play this? I never won Halls with IWAY, it fails!

well, I did so I guess you fail FMK- 23:02, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Anything with 4 warriors is manly and strong. My beard senses are tingling at the frailty of your whiskers young pup. Go drink some gas so you can piss fire and then come talk to me saying IWAY fails.--Ikimono"My beard is thick."Monk-Paragon-icon 00:47, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
You clearly weren't using enough Jingle Bears. Also, if you're ever in doubt, bring 4 100b's and everything dies. ··· Dannycbf 17:15, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
You use rainbow phoenixes...--Relyk 06:05, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Tactics warrior /w HB's?

If you're going to run a full HB iway, why not run a tactics warrior with charge and retreat like the old steady stance iway? This would accomplish a few things. First, it would allow the HB wars to drop their IMS for sun & moon slash (really good with HB). Second, it would allow the HB wars to replace sever artery with barbarous slice for moar damage since they wouldn't have a stance. Third, it would allow the PnH to drop fall back while increasing overall defense since charge and retreat will cover the whole party with 33% IMS almost all the time. You could also throw watch yourself on the tactics warrior to help against stuff like mathways that have little or no physical damage.

<pvxbig> [build prof=W/R name="Tactics Warrior" axe=12+1+1 tac=12+2 str=3][Disrupting Chop][Bull's Strike]["Watch Yourself!"]["Charge!"]["Retreat!"]["I Will Avenge You!"][Charm Animal][Resurrection Signet][/build] </pvxbig>

<pvxbig> [build prof=W/R name="HB Warriors" swo=12+1+2 str=12][Barbarous Slice][Gash][Sun and Moon Slash][Savage Slash][Hundred Blades]["I Will Avenge You!"][Charm Animal][Resurrection Signet][/build] </pvxbig>

interesting, but definitly drop watch yourself. it's terrible.FMK- 07:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
Under QZ, Charge would actually cover the whole party by itself anyway, though that's unreliable. I guess what it comes down to is whether an elite on one character is worth single slot on all four warriors and the PnH. Certainly looks like it could work though. 86.26.103.165 12:04, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
or, you could just switch out rush for 2 coppies of retreat on the hbs. only speedboost 90% of the time (18 of 20 secs) but 33% vs. rushs 25% and partywide instead of earshot like charge. Frees up barb. slash and 3 optionals on the team. FMK- 14:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
With QZ up, one retreat alone should be enough, and the other war could bring bull's or whatever. Two retreats would be safer though, and would at the very least allow for barb over sever, which is awesome. 86.26.103.165 22:30, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
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