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Since I can't re-revert it I'll just say it here...it's not great, it's not meta, change it to something else.--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 02:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe make some of the sins bring a different elite instead of so much Wounding Strike...with a 3 second recharge I'm sure there is more than enough deepwound/bleeding to go around...maybe have like 1 or 2 sins bring something else? also is 1 bonder going to be able to maintain 11 bonds? maybe replace 1 sin for another bonder? Also, whats the time difference between this build and Dual Discord way? is it worth it?--XdaC 04:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
I dont think you will make this vq with discord in 18 mins:)--GodFocused AngerKamil 12:14, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
HzH alliance does this more then DTSC. To us, it's "Great" and more of a "meta" build then DSC. Considering the fact we have 3 times more faction coming in everyday then the #2 (Altrumm) alliance. IxlKennylxl 13:50, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Adac, it's possible that changing some of the assassin's elites would make this build faster, but I'm a huge fan of more generic builds because it makes it easier to recruit among pugs. The more specialized build that you have, the longer it'll take to form teams. Why take an extra couple minutes to form a team if you only save a couple minutes anyways? --Supernick530 13:57, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
You think WotA Sins would work too? Orphus 14:55, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Also I went to Euro-French dis and there was no one there :( Orphus 16:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Today is the first day that we are accepted PUGs if there is any. It's been less then 20 hours that this has been on PvX and someone changed it to Trail so less people will see it. IxlKennylxl 17:21, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
IMO: anything is better than DTSC....if you pug DTSC you're lucky if you get 50mins (you can dual discord it in ~49)(but just for now im going to pretend discord doesn't exist while discussing this build lol)...but 45 minutes is listed as fastest speed in MTSC...I would take the slowest speed into effect because not everyone will do this flawlessly every run. (As well as knowing most people, the average run time speed is actually somewhere around 46minutes...but to make thsi seem better they just subtracted a few minutes from the actual average run time to include "Faster teams" (because imo a 5min gap seems a bit much to be "average"). I'm interested in going on a few runs with you guys if possible, to see if there is anything I might be able to suggest that may help =)--XdaC 18:33, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
The build was changed back to trial because builds here are vetting by our community, not yours. 72.148.243.147 17:33, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
When do you guys normally do this? I'd like to join in, if possible (I'm a sin). Orphus 19:10, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
We are doing this with two WotA sins to split in certain areas and reduce the time about five minutes. I am getting 20-22 minutes runs all the time with a reward of aprox 22k. Defenitely better than DTSC. Only problem is that I get groups only thru the ally chat of HzH ally, well problem for pugs not for me :). And yeah for our ally this is definetively our meta.--Kilikan 04:52, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
For me there's only one problem - unskilled people. As you said we're spliting in certain areas to make the whole run faster but sometimes other guys are confused and it causes in not faster but slower run. Same with the new guys. When someone asks us how to MTSC we only say "Get build, join and do what others do" however when they start doing it they don't know how to use bonds or run whole distance to seed tank instead of casting it on the Mo/P standing next to him. However this problem will always be as we always get new guys for MTSC, otherwise it's good to see that many people want to join our runs and realize there's something better than DTSC or JQ. We still have to beat record of 15mins but with each run we're getting closer to it. You know..practice makes perfect ;] Matiasko 8:13, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Holy Crap

Wow nice guys i've tried this over and over again it's amazing exept i've made my own few changes to make it more useable and attainable for myself and ally. PS hzh ally watch out the #3 ally is gonna start to take over your little town XD

Yeah right :p --12.189.190.154 04:25, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Symbiosis

Has quite a long recharge, Is it worth it or do you just drop in certain spots? Zedone2 10:45, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

         You dont need it really, If your UA is good, you can drop it and bring something else. --Sukasukahumdee 12:36, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
True however UA don't have that much to do here. If you want take something else good may be Great Dwarf Weapon or any R's skill. In same case, you don't need Cure Hex in Mo/P build and if you find something more usefull you can replace it ;] Matiasko 22:31, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

SPQR

just keep in mind that you cant try this build with SPQR. they're all lame flamers that dont like other people. 85.100.35.14 16:35, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

15 Minute Run

It seems possible to do this faster than DTSC and get more Faction: [1] A 15 minute run is not bad. PS: If you dont believe me and think I pohotshopped that screenshot, go ahead. I dont really care. Or you could PM the HzH alliance and ask them about this record. I have since left that alliance to go work on my Luxon title, so maybe they've set an even better record, I dont know.

it's a shame you whited out the team structure for no sensible reason then. There is little purpose in bragging on an easily photoshop-able image; however unlikely it would be, seeing how sloppy your censorship was.--Ikimono1 08:20, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
Nowadays you can't believe anything coz we have some tools like Paint or Photoshop, what I want to say, you can't be sure is it fake or true as long as we were there in the teams. If it's true I ask you how did you do this? Standard builds or special hybrids? Standard way or some new or maybe with split? You must answer us if you want us to believe you ;] . If it's fake..SHAME YOU! However I know it's only case between your conscience and you. Matiasko 15:44, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

It's not fake, I was in the run as UA monk. (Homeguard Smiter)

Bonders

This may be a noob question but, how are the bonders goint to maintain energy? I mean they only got blessed signet and i dont think thats enough. 62.131.122.68 14:12, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

balthazar's spirit on bonder Dre 14:46, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
And with the conset blessed signet is enough--12.189.190.154 15:20, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
I'm running Mo/P so I can tell you, while maintaining 2 bonds on 5 sins you have 10bonds + Balthazar's Spirit(on yourself). I have 14 in Divine Favors so i can get 23 energy max when I use it. When using Conset I get 15 in Divine Favors so Ican manage 24 energy while using Signet and I think it's enough if you use it all time it recharges however sometimes it's impossible and it's why you have Balthazar's Spirit which grants you energy each time you get hited and thx to bonds you're hitted when Sins are hitted. In case of Mo/R he has same with Signet but must Essence Bond tanking Sin(remember to naot bond Mo/P because he's hitting with 0dmg and for Essence it doesn't count). And it's all how to get energy while bonding, hope I helped ;] Matiasko 18:57, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
I have run Mo/R with HzH alliance a lot the past weeks maintaining the 10 bonds is quite easy using blessed signet on recharge. Serpent's quickness speeds up the recharge. If you are in a team with experienced WoTa's, use essence bond on those 2, at most points you don't need to cast blessed signet on recharge because they tank groups. If you lose a lot of bonds either from chilbains or losing all energy. Use essence bond wisely to help speed up bonding the sins back up.Blue is coming 03:48, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

On a side note, wouldn't using ER bonders be more efficient?, then you could use another scythe/wota. 62.131.122.68 19:05, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

No. Coz you can't have use of Seed Of Life which is most efficient mass healing spell here. What benefits (which would replace above one) could bring us E/R ? Matiasko 21:55, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
I think he meant ER as in Ether Renewal E/Mo bonders. Orphus 20:04, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
Build:E/Mo_ER_Infuse_Bonder for the PvX page of said bonder (I assume). ~ PheNaxKian talk 20:37, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

i used to run this with SPQR. on average, it was around 20-25 minutes. we had no wota sins, just 5 scythes and 3 bonders. extremely fast and almost double the faction than dtsc. however, alot of people in our alliance didnt want to do it since you had to pay for consets. you pay 1k at the begining and get... 2k at the end for vanquishing? in my opinion, MTSC > DTSC. cant wait for pugs to learn how to do this. its so much easier than dtsc...

Yes, since they can spam infuse for very big healing, and since everything wont ever take over 5% anyways, that should be plenty, while at the same time they can also spam GDW on your physicals. Perhaps a more Physway styled build would be more effective overall. (5x melee 1x buffer 2x ER bonders)62.131.122.68 07:10, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

No, you need 2xSeed of Life for the Mo/P at certain points. And as a bonder you aren't in range of the melee, so I dont see how you want to spam infuse, it's quite obvious that you have never played a bonder with WotA sins in the group. (Homeguard)

I dont think you have ever played an Ether Renewal bonder. 62.131.122.68 18:00, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Conset

Consumable tag should be added. Each person pays the conset user 1k. The 1k is gained by finishing the VQ along with profit. So why not?

Forgot to sign ^ Blue is coming 03:41, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
There is the tag --Kilikan 04:53, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
We usually only pay for a BU but a full set works too i guess--TahiriVeila 05:16, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
Conset isn't really 'required' but guess it will do >.< Blue is coming 21:08, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
At least all the groups formed inside the HzH ally always use a full conset. If you don't use it the time of completion increases drastically and I am not sure if it would be a good alternative to DTSC

Split

I am wandering how people do the split of the WOTAs. This is how I do it
MTSC with split

White is the A/D route and Yellow the WotA splits

--Kilikan 05:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
Good map to show routes. It would look nicer with clean lines, but still it should be added near WoTa section of build Blue is coming 23:25, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Physical

Jezz, Just run any physical, the popularity is not going to be that high, hate to break it to you, people will UW for cash before they want titles. So just take anything you can get. Zedone2 05:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

You're probably right about the popularity, but maybe its easier to form PUG's if you try to find them in The Eternal Grove, where also DTsc parties are formed.. ,- Konschu Assassin&#039;s Promise 15:54, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Its not for everyone

For starters the HzH ally that made this was tailoring to their own play-style, not everyone in guild wars. This build was supposed to remain in the ally but someone took it upon themselves to post it on PvX. Its very effective once u learn it and 15 minute runs become possible with amazing groups. Some of the more less popular skills all have a place in this run but are not needed such as symbiosis. Symbiosis is only for the part where Kyril Oathwarden and Sunreach Warmaker are since they are tight areas with many clusters of enemies and it helps the monks deal better when the sins have 1.3k health points but again its not needed since you seed of life the mo/p to effectively heal the entire party . Another thing is consets are not required but are highly recommended due to the fact the runs overall time will increase greatly and the monks wont be able to maintain energy to keep up 10-11 bonds. It's alright to make Small tweaks to the build here and there and not effect the time or function of the build but it should be noted that this team build was designed to clear the map in 15-25 min(anything over 25 is a waste and dtsc becomes better to FF) so any replacement of the core skills of this build is highly not recommended. One last thing I would like to clear is this speed clear(to me anyway) is 10 times better because DTSC is extremely boring and MTSC is fast paced and a very good change from DTSC. I personally farmed close to 4 million kurzick faction during the last double faction weekend just from MTSC alone.

hey look its the anonymous guy tells that hzh ally are pro88.251.166.229 11:11, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
The two main guilds that do MTSC, DRO & LLE, asked if I could put this on PvX wiki as a way of getting people more involved. They want MTSC to be more popular and involve more than just HzH alliance. IxlKennylxl 14:19, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Skills I have replaced. Mo/R: Essence Bond, Symbiosis UA: Selfless Spirit, Heal party(seed of life the mo/p and heal party becomes useless) Mo/P: Remove Hex(only for other hex removal) A/D: Victorious Sweep for Asuran Scan(this extra attack isn't needed) A/W: This build is the best it could be imho and shouldn't be touched

Skills I used: -Air of Superiority for the Mo/R instead of Essence Bond(It was better e. management and I was able to cast Seed of life multiple times in dire situations) -For Symbiosis use your best judement on what to bring. I personally used symbiosis since it really helped the monks more than the sins in some areas. -Selfless Spirit for GDW. -Heal Party for a low energy heal of your choice(preferably one u can heal yourself with). You also shouldn't be having energy problems since heal party is gone -Remove Hex for another hex removal but the only better choice is deny hexes. -Victorious Sweep is not needed since the other 2 attacks are enough and asuran scan is more damage output.

"This build-related article is in the trial phase." - It's why we're testing it and trying some changes. 1st - Sign your comments coz i don't rly care about people who's nick/name I don't know ;p . 2nd - Each person feel better running other build so for someone changes will help and for someone else don't. 3rd - HzH owning ally did this whole team build and it's not like we don't want to share it with others coz we are insomniac faction riders ;p for us it's better and easier to call in Ally Chat about MTSC than stand in Unwaking Waters and wait till enough people will come (waste of time). What's more if we're MTSC'ing with ally/guild mates we can trust them, look I don't say people are thiefs but when you know your guild mate well you know he won't do anything stupid ;]. Last thing, I think MTSC is great thing and with conset you can do great faction in fast run ;] Matiasko 9:07, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Orders

i'd say get 5 wotas and replace UA with vampiric order. they rape everything in sight, and lifesteal does its job better than UA. even a low experienced team can rape everything with it. ~~Rip intheblue

Btw i really dont get channeling magic with these builds. you got 5 sins dealing 100 damage per hit, you dont need some crappy skills to add extra damage. you need a real skill like orders, lol 88.251.166.229 11:18, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
Done this with A/D's one orders and the three monks, and it really sucked. I noticed the lack of extra damage and the orders didn't cut it. Maybe as RIP says all WotAs would be different but i am not sure about it.--Kilikan 22:04, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

I think that the bnder which has life barrier should put essence bond on the other bonder because he takes damage evrytimes a sin is attacked and i also think the UA should takes essence bond and put it on the bonder which have life bond.

Read essence bond once again. "You gain 1 Energy whenever target ally takes physical or elemental damage." baltha spirit, bro --Bio. 00:44, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
It sucked cause you're not supposed to run orders with the scythes, orders affects physical damage and scythes do holy damage. LordTaros 18:40, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
The extra damage from 3 players with Aura of Holy Might is significantly more dmg than orders can provide. I can't comment on the idea of 4 WotA assassin with 1 orders. I'd be very surprised is that was better, though. The Crit Scythes do insane damage! --Supernick530 00:20, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
actually crit sins hit like 100 while wotas with orders would hit 90~100 with jagged strike. orders would be much better88.241.67.35 05:10, September 6, 2010 (UTC)
had some runs with newbies. 5 wotas with orders, 20 min run. i hit 150-160 with jagged strike. this needs more tests88.251.163.75 21:55, September 12, 2010 (UTC)
Any Pics of an Orders build that worked? Angueo AngueoSignature 02:38, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
ok i uploaded a picture with minor changes to monks. i think this would be better. aos+seed is good enufRipintheblue 19:35, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
nope i dont have any ss. heres the build: order of pain/blood bond/blood ritual/UA/GDW/some healing skills/res. both other monks also had GDW.Ripintheblue 19:35, September 13, 2010 (UTC)
MTSC

5 wotas

Better build

if you run this it'll be much more faster: 2 splitter wotas with Ebon escape for surviving and running faster while surviving. since there will be no UA there might be fails.

3 normal wotas. /with asura scan and save yourselves. and 2 monks

1 N/Mo with order of the vampire. this will increase the damage output a LOT and give them a great life steal effect.

all 3 non-wotas will get GDW. this will cause them to KD and extra damage. jagged strike will hit above 100. since there will be no UA, mo/p might get we shall return. ripintheblue 88.241.67.35 01:21, September 6, 2010 (UTC)

also, kd will get rid of blurred vision. this improves speed a lot.Ripintheblue 00:25, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

Great

I still think that this should be in the Great and Meta section of PvXWiki. More MTSC then DSC going on.. DSC is dead. Face it. IxlKennylxl 23:31, September 14, 2010 (UTC)

Might be a great build, but it's still in Trial, so it doesn't need to be there yet. I haven't seen anyone doing it, and believe me, I've looked. I am so bloody sick of Drazach Thicket... They forming up in the varied Euro-districts again, or is it still pretty much strictly intra-guild? Targren 05:22, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
Us in the HzH alliance only do MTSC. We form groups in the guild halls and leave from there. GL getting PUGs going for this if you idiots trying to run PvXWiki are forcing this to stay in the Trial Builds section. All I gotta say is, the HzH Alliance thanks you for keeping it on here as a way to distribute the builds throughout our alliance and good job keeping the other alliances down. We wanted to post this one PvX to help the other alliances as well but no one else seems to really care. IxlKennylxl 20:21, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
If there are no PUGs for it and you're the only ones running it, it's not Meta, and if no one else can run it, it won't be rated "great." That's too bad, since I thought it looked interesting, but thems the breaks. Frothing on a discussion page won't accomplish anything either way. Persecution complex much? Targren 23:08, September 15, 2010 (UTC)
Let's face it: PvE Meta = Whatever's on PvX. If you can't find a team for a team build, there's only 3 reason: 1) Your Guild doesn't want to run it, 2) Your friends don't want to run it, 3) PvX didn't Vet it. You can't find a group because this is in trial, and this is in trial because you can't find a group. Welcome to limbo. 66.183.63.246 06:12, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Nah, in HzH Alliance we have just about 24/7 groups for MTSC. I only want it to be Great and Meta on PvX to help the rest of the Kurzick Faction Community as well. Kurzick side has been lacking for the last few months since the HW/SF nerf. IxlKennylxl 20:20, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Um, you know you can move the build to testing and vote on it if you're done refining it right? ToraenTheJanitorToraenSig2 21:52, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
Reading through, I only see complaints about whether there are pugs, whethe HzH should add other non-ally to their groups, and whether people can actually change this build into testing (nice job Torean :P). Lets face the judgment, shall we? Shadow Form Slayer Shadow Form~ Slayer 05:59, September 17, 2010 (UTC)
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