Build talk:Team - Spiritual Discord

why dual mm? --Anonimous. D: 13:01, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

More boom. --XArkantos

--Heroes manage Reclaim Essence well? Syphonus 18:11, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

The second you aggro, heroes will put down spirits. The second all enemies are dead, heroes will use reclaim essence. The only problem they have is when they put down defensive spirits while not in combat, they will automatically use reclaim. Not really a problem, though. --XArkantos

Name

Call it "spiritway." "Arkenway" is way too self-serving, and since everyone and their mothers were making spirit heroes after the update....--User:Thc 17:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Moved to Build:Team - Spiritual Discord. Best I could be bothered to come up with. Spaggage talk 21:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, spiritual discord is a good name ;P --XArkantos

The Build Page says Great, but its not under Great

I can only find it under "All" and "Testing" but not in Great, even though the page says Great. I dont know how to fix this or else I would've.(pr0adam) 23:25, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

With a full minion team, how long does Union last? Like 2 seconds? 23:43, 22 June 2009

45 hits IIRC. --71.229 23:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

So 2 secs of AoE on a 20 minion team >.> Life 23:54, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Lasts long enough to keep everyone at >90% while the enemies are getting killed. --XArkantos

Ok, I really don't understand how this got vetted this quickly in this poor of a condition (except for the Guru fanboys coming here and 5-5-Xing it). But it had some issues.

1. You had recuperation on the Resto 1, which doesn't make sense considering that it has a 45 second recharge and it would make more sense on the Reclaim Essence Resto 2 bar (so I moved it).
2. Since I moved Recup, I moved Spirit Siphon to the Resto 2 bar as well and added 3 channeling to bar. SS is channeling skill and every attribute point helps.
3. Spirit to Flesh makes more sense on the Resto 1 bar because if you're going to destroy a spirit, it might as well be Life or Rejuv (they have a lower recharge).

Other than all that, this is kinda sloppy. Something I would suggest is trying to find room for WoW, Resilient Weapon or something. Weapon spells are still amazing in PvE and great on primary rits now. Oh, and one last thing. Most people are going to dislike this build because it requires Razah (tbh, I only have Razah on 4/8 chars) which is a pain in the ass. 00:00, 23 June 2009

It was vetted quickly because the build works. Sure it's not the most polished build yet, but if it works when it's like this, it's obviously going to work when it's more polished. Union is up long enough to make a difference. I don't know what's wrong with your heroes, but my heroes use reclaim when the enemies are dead. I don't know why recup was on the first rit, but thanks for moving. As for spirit to flesh, it doesn't matter what bar it's on, because it can be used on any allied spirit. I doubt the hero AI is smart enough to use it on life/rejuv. This build is meant for HM vanquishes/missions/dungeons, and generally people doing those are going for titles. If they're going for the titles, they'll have beaten NF. If they beat NF, it takes all of 5 minutes to get Razah. I think it's pretty stupid that you rated it 2/2, seeing as the build works for what it's meant for, but whatever. --XArkantos

So KarateJesus, you rated the build low, which I can appreciate if you have valid points, but you really don't. Let's see what you wrote;

   Union lasts a whole 5-6 seconds once you have a minion wall....which is retarded.
   After testing, heroes don't use Reclaim Essence very well at all. They will often kill spirits before needing to or not use it in time. If they don't recharge the spirits, you're fucked.
   Weapon spells are good on primary rits now. Something besides just splinter weapon would be nice.
   Spirit AI is terrible (especially on the new SoS). The SoS spirits have trouble targeting and spirits will commonly not attack called targets.
   The write-up is sloppy and the builds really aren't the best they could be. 

Firstly, Union reducing damage for 5-6 seconds is enough time for us to kill at least 1 target, more often than not 2. Killing 2 vital targets in 5-6 seconds is extremely helpful, as it allows you to get your team into a strong position. Just because Union doesn't last 3 hours, doesn't mean it isn't useful. In zones where there are very little corpses, your entire argument is useless, as Union becomes very helpful.

Secondly, your testing must be wrong. Every single time we've run Reclaim Essence, the heroes have run it perfect. Either you have them set on a weird mode, or you're doing something wrong. This is no reason to rate the build down, because Reclaim is used exactly how we want it used.

Thirdly, weapon spells are good on primary rits? Oh okay, that's cool. Doesn't mean we need to invest in them. The way our build works, the Splinter is for extra damage as we are both Warriors. As stated, it can be changed. Once again, no reason to rate down, as we don't have much use for Weapon spells.

Fourthly, spirit AI is terrible? I don't know what you're talking about, as it seems pretty perfect for us. Call targets (Protip; Ctrl+Space) and they work great. Even if they DON'T all attack the same target, it's still putting excellent pressure on all foes. Once again, why did you vote down?

Finally, the write-up is sloppy and the builds aren't the best? I'm so sorry we didn't do it exactly how you seem to think it should be done in your mind. Our write up is still being tweaked, as is the build. The build currently is almost EXACTLY how it is meant to be, bar 2-3 skills that might change. It seems to me that you totally missed the point and voted the build down out of spite because you did it wrong. I see no valid reason why you should have voted it 2. Your points are all poor. --Fenix 01:48, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Discord vs Sab

For the first 2 slots. MM + SS vs 2 Discorders. IMO, 2 discorders isnt going to do anything since spirits never focus on one target and 200 damage spiking in a team build where damage isnt focused is silly. A standard mm and an ss can still minion bomb and can get more aoe damage with mark of pain and ss. And either way you want to go, switch the xinrae's healer to a n/rt and play around with the skills cuz energy iz good. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:35, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if you ping your targets, Spirits will follow. That way you can have the spirits attacking the one target, as well as getting hit bu the ~200 Discord damage, plus the Spirit Rift damage. Even if you aren't getting all the spirits on the one target, the pressure is great on the entire team of foes, but while doing that you can spike with the 2x Discord, 1x Spirit Rift and your own skills. Bringing Sab-style heroes won't add anything useful to the build, whereas the way they are they allow for good spike damage if it is needed (it often is). --Fenix 01:28, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Reclaim Essence

Heroes apparently aren't any good with it. ــѕт.мıкε 00:51, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

why is there the att of restoration on the communing rit?

I have no idea why there has been that edit on the Reclaim Essence page, it works perfectly for us. If you aggro a group, the Rits will instantly cast their spirits. They will ONLY use Reclaim Essence the SECOND you kill the last foe. Which is perfect, because you get energy back, and recharged spirits. I don't know why it has been listed as a bug, I think the person who edited it is simply wrong.

As for Restoration on the Communing Rit, that was a mistake, as that rit used to have either Death Pact Signet or Flesh of my Flesh, hence the points. --Fenix 01:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)