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Um....the last bar has reclaim essence and BoC and Armor of Unfeeling.....but only 1 spirit. Seems like a waste. KJ badge sig 19:38, 22 June 2009

From GWW: This skill affects the health loss from spirits such as Shelter and Union. ··· Danny Does Drugs 19:43, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
So it's bugged? Build was changed KJ badge sig 19:59, 22 June 2009
I'm still not liking that third bar. Those three spirits will blow up instantly with a full minion wall. LifeWikiLOD7 22:09, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
^. Tbh, the only way to really keep those spirits up is with Reclaim Essence (which is meh on heroes), or AP (which is shit on heroes). I think you'd have to just use Resto spirits for any type of defense. Communing spirits just die too fast. KJ badge sig 22:20, 22 June 2009
What? Spirits won't blow up with a full minion wall. The three of them put together will result in the entire team taking less damage, taking MORE less damage, and dodging 75% of attacks. They don't need to last long, just enough to survive the full brunt of the aggro, then you kill them and win. Reclaim Essence is NOT bad on heroes, you just fail at using it. Seriously. It works perfectly. --Fenix 01:56, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Karate Jesus, have you actually used the build? I'm assuming no, since apparently you think it's bad, when it really isn't. First of all, I don't know what you do wrong, but when I run reclaim essence on heroes, they use it perfectly. I've been able to do HM missions and vanquishes with it, absolutely no problems. Even if the 3 spirits die fast, they prevent enough damage for your party to stay in very high health while key enemies die. I've never played a h/h build that was able to stay very well alive vs. a group of margonites and a group of tormented creatures in hard mode, until now. Without those 3 spirits, my party would have wiped in seconds. If the build is failing for you, then you must be doing something seriously wrong. --XArkantos
Read my responses on your other build. And btw, I like the idea of a spiritway build and I've been running some things that are similar (just trying shit out), so you and Fenix don't need to be so defensive and buttbuddy-like. Defending a build is one thing, but having your ego wrapped up in it is another. KJ badge sig 20:21, 23 June 2009
We're defending the build because you're claiming that it doesn't work well, when it works perfectly fine for us. Your heroes have the same AI as our heroes, so there's obviously a problem at your end. And where the hell have I brought my ego into this? --XArkantos 04:07, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
To be fair, he's not saying this is bad at all. In fact, he's actually giving devently constructive critisism :> Brandnew 11:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
^ I really do want this to work. I'm messing around with the same things you are, trying to make a spiritway build work really well (again, because I love the idea). My point was that you and Fenix are overly defensive of your work, which makes it seems like your collective egos are wrapped up in it. Just defend your work with specific examples. Saying "ours works" when others have obviously tested it and it has not worked isn't a good enough explanation. Isolate the heroes, work on them, and tell me honestly what is good (and bad) about this build. Just be fair, honest, and tone down the assholeryness and we'll listen. KJ badge sig 16:02, 24 June 2009
First of all I'd hardly call it 'our work'. We made the base of the build, the community helped out and we changed many things. But screw that, since my ego is wrapped up in it I'm just going to say the community didn't help, this is all my work, you suck, I rule, and this build is the best build ever. I'm not trying to be an asshole, but the majority of people who have tried this build say it works. I just don't understand why you and danny are having problems when many others aren't. It doesn't make much sense since all hero AI is the same. Everything I'm saying is honest. I have no reason to lie to random people on pvx to make my build look better. When I say that the heroes use reclaim well, they use it well. When I say union/shelter/displacement are up for long enough to make a big difference, it means they're up long enough to make a huge difference. In the end, lying about a build is just going to make you (not you personally) look like an idiot, which is why I'm not lying about the build. --XArkantos 19:20, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
lol, did you even read what I wrote? Like Brandnew and Pika said, I'm trying to be fair to this build. I'm telling you the problems that I and several other people have found. If you don't want to address them, then don't....but again, I'm just trying to help. KJ badge sig 19:29, 24 June 2009
Yes, I read it. What I want to address is why a couple of people on pvx are having problems, while everyone else who has tried the build and commented about it on guru have not had these problems. I asked you before, how do your heroes use reclaim essence wrong? What do they do that makes the use wrong? --XArkantos 19:31, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
As I and Danny have both already said, heroes will often use reclaim quickly after casting the spirits or not in time to recharge the spirits. Sometimes they're just sporadic with the way they use RE. KJ badge sig 19:35, 24 June 2009
Fair enough. What I want to know is this: out of everyone I've discussed the build with, you two are the only ones having this problem. Pretty weird if you ask me. --XArkantos 02:58, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
I've tested this build too, and seen the same thing happen. Drahgal Meir 03:05, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Testing

Still testing and tweaking builds. Vanquished some zones on Shing Jea (which doesn't say much about the effectiveness) with ease. Managed to do Abaddon's Gate HM in 10 minutes flat (would have been 8 1/2 - 8 if Abaddon didn't have about 100 health after he was unattackable) with no deaths. Personally I've never heard of a general h/h team complete the mission HM in under 10 minutes, so I'm impressed. Someone managed to complete Ruins of Morah HM in 6 minutes with this build. Someone even managed to vanquish Rhea's Crater with a similar build with 1 human/3 heroes (no henchmen), and they said it would have probably been easier to do with this build. Feel free to test the build out, and leave comments here. --XArkantos

I Did Ruins of Morah this build without the necro (replaced by Morghan) in 4 minutes and 13 seconds. Abbadon's Gate in 12 minutes about. (was Bad) And vanquished Rhea's crater fourman with this build (used consumables though) So i would say it works. ;) Master Elros 21:09, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

So far the current build (with Ritual Lord) has returned very good performance. I would probably rate this a high score and I especially like the fact that it works with my physical damage characters (e.g. warrior) better than the current discordway does with barbs and high level splinter weapon. I like this more than I like discordway. DarkSpirit 16:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

WoQ on communing Rit?

Doesn't keep spirits up as well as Ritual lord, but it's still decent and provides nice support for the rest of the team as well (Sorry if I doubled posted, I got confused with the redirects >.>) 76.206.237.236 20:15, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Would probably be a decent alternative, but I'm guessing heroes are absolutely terrible at using WoQ. LifeWikiLOD7 20:22, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I would sincerely doubt that heroes use WoQ appropriately; however, it has a long duration, so they may end up using it on all three heroes. I'll test it out later and see what happens. KJ badge sig 20:35, 23 June 2009

Empathic Removal

Conditions/Hexes could make things dicey. Empathic Removal on the MM seems like a good idea. Or at least switch out Spirit Light for MBAS. Syphonus 14:08, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Agree, there seems to be no condition removal which is bad. I also switched Rip Enchantment on the MM for the new Masochism.DarkSpirit 17:46, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
ER does work well in the MM elite slot. The Z-mission was Hell's Precipice so I ran this with my Moebius 'sin. I rushed through it pretty fast and only one time had to pull back because of conditions -- the burning was rarely an issue, even when I pulled multiple groups. (I was also running a nerfed build -- I only have one rit hero so I had to convert a necro for the resto slot). I'll have to try this out against a heavy hex area and see how that works. --Dfscott 18:55, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

minion bomber

you allready have a spiritwall...there is no reason to take a minion bomber. Illoyon 03:14, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

.....Why not? Minions bomber>PvE. LifeWikiLOD7 03:17, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone just fails at being a Ritualist. Spirit walls made from the Communing spirits are absolute shit and were phased out a very long time ago as a useful tactic. They are there for their actual effects and nothing more. Benjammn311Sig5 04:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

i've only used the two ritualists (been doing HM NF missions where you need specific heros) and it's still worked great. does the MM really make it that much easier? Sir Nothing 00:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

They play off each other... more minions + more spirits + summons/EVAS = overwhelmed/confused mobs.
yeah, i've been VQing now using all 3 and they work greatt :) except i for some dumb reason decided to put SS as the MMs elite slot since it has 10 curses, and i think it does a great job:) like having an ss and MM. someone else wanna try it and let me know if it works for them or if i'm just dumb? kthnx lol Sir Nothing 05:16, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Mark of Pain

As a variant on the MM? It's always pwnage if you have a MM, about just as good as Barbs. Too bad it won't trigger on spirit attacks. 212.45.32.214 07:44, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

VQQ

this kitten stomps 4-man VQ areas-just VQ'd a few nub cantha island places with it, no deaths. GG Flesh Atrophy"True stories are made up" Gw032 03:42, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

honestly, you can hench HM cantha areas, it really is no achievement whatsoever. 212.183.136.193 06:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
25 minute VQ of jaya. do that with henchmen?Flesh Atrophy"True stories are made up" VIM 16:00, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
I bet I could do <20 with Discord. I'll bet whatever you want xD On a more serious note, this looks rather "Let's use the new buffs to Rits in ways that aren't intelligent but work anyway, because PvE is REALLY REALLY hard to beat!" On a side note: rating builds with single vanquishes is just like rating a PvP build with RA, don't do it. Goodnight LA mcsig 07:50, 2 July 2009

Grenthway

should be this build's name. Atomisk8115 01:01, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, goin through a vanq with this, I see 2 problems (neither are too big and mainly my fault for being lazy). first, if you go around a corner too fast, the rits tend to put up the spirits behind a wall. Second, sometimes the minions go too far ahead and bodyblock stuff, and the spirits end up idle. Obviously these can both be fixed by flagging, but aside from that, this is amazing, and has replaced sabway for me Atomisk8115 01:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

hex removal is the biggest draw backFlesh Atrophy"True stories are made up" Epic VQ 01:52, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Im assuming the hexes are supposed to be thrown down on minions, and after playing with sabway as a warrior for atleast 50 vanqs, it just doesn't work that way. I also bound every key that i need to macro, works like a charm now.
forgot to sign in Atomisk8115 06:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Hex removal is the biggest drawback in ALL hero-based team builds, due to the fact that Rits and Necros having no primary hex removal. If you have to flag for your build to be effective, is it really effective? Goodnight LA mcsig 07:54, 2 July 2009
the flagging is to prevent hero wiping, because all hero flagging is like that (cyndr to prevent kitten stomping 7/8 ppl)Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 14:18, 2 July 2009 (UTC)


Build:Rt/Me SoS Restoration Rit

i saw this build and thought it might be a better version to use as the sos rit? i'll try it out in my next vq Sir Nothing 04:47, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm a little worried about that build -- how good are heroes at using FoS? I'm not keen on my hero casting it at the wrong time and wiping out one of my defensive spirits. --Dfscott 18:59, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

minions...and defencive spirits

just a quote...

Efficiency GREATLY reduced when accompagnied by an Minion Master in AoE heavy areas : only a couple of AoE spells on the minions and the spirits WILL die. 95.33.5.53 21:54, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Without the minions they'd probably cast on the spirits directly, too. win-win. AthrunAthrun SigFeya 21:57, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
And, even if the defence is used on the minions, it's still damage reduced that would come around to your party eventually. Life Guardian 22:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

So...

Any reason why this beast of a hero setup wasn't ever moved to the voting stage, and instead is being tossed to the trash? It's pretty ace. Mithr4ndir 04:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

it actually works veryy well. so the BKs who put it here obviously dont know what 'innovation' is Flesh Atrophy Epic VQ 23:12, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Making HM into NM

Use this hero build with an AP Spirit Spammer, something like this:

<pvxbig> [build prof=Rt/A dead=8 com=11+1+1 cha=9+1 spa=8+1][Assassin's Promise][Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support][Vampirism][Pain][Agony][Anguish][Spirit Siphon][Summon Spirits (Kurzick)][/build] </pvxbig>

...and watch things die. This build is overpowered and the only reason for not accepting this, is for fear of ANet nerfing it. And it works great with my warrior too. DarkSpirit 20:12, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Hero build with 3 PvE only skills? That is indeed overpowered... But I would swear A-net alrdy have nerfed this.. if you get my point?Sebv2727 17:29, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I think he's suggesting that the above skillset would be a good build for running with those heroes in NM. --Supernick530 06:59, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Spirit Siphon with low Channeling Magic?

I see it in this build and in the 8man build: Spirit Siphon with low Channeling Magic (4 in this build, 3 in the 8man build). What is the point? With 4 channeling, it only returns 2 energy per spirit? And with 3, it returns even less: only 1 energy! And that is while hoping the hero knows how to cast it. In my experience, heroes often cast it on a drained spirit, resulting in energy loss.

cool story bro Sir Nothing 01:33, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
agreed - Spending 5 energy to get 7 seems like waste of a cast. However, I'm not having much luck finding anything else to replace it with -- maybe Sundering or Ghostly Weapon? --Dfscott 03:31, September 5, 2009 (UTC)
How about replacing it with Spirit's Gift? DarkSpirit 05:35, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
Definitely a possibility -- it definitely fits the build. I'm a little worried about energy but I'll try it and see.--Dfscott 16:56, September 9, 2009 (UTC)
The other possibility is to replace Spirit Siphon with Mighty Was Vorizun.DarkSpirit 06:19, September 15, 2009 (UTC)
Heroes seem to use it surprisingly well - I noticed one time after having Xandra summon some spirits I reflagged her and as soon as she'd moved she used SS again (presumably she knew that what was now the nearest spirit to her had enough energy to make it worthwhile) but it's true it works better when there are lots being created and killed so there's always one with lots of energy. Also, 3 is too low, really (you wouldn't take OoS with 3, would you?), you need to invest at least one point off something else (which should put it to something more like 8). 82.3.249.58 17:22, September 9, 2009 (UTC)

Check the GWGuru thread. They have a lot of variants and alternatives that work for energy. The only problem is that you have to wade through the circle jerking to get to it. KJ badge sig 17:25, 15 September 2009

jsut a quick question tht shdu probs be on admin board thing. how come not all spirits show level,health and armour? Exo Oo 17:47, September 20, 2009 (UTC)
After playing around with this slot a lot, I've started swapping in Weaken Armor into this slot most of the time. I use this with my assassin and even with only 3 curses, the 8 seconds it lasts is more than enough time to spike most stuff down, plus it helps the minions damage as well. (BTW, not sure what's up with the strange formatting on Exo OO's comment) --Dfscott 03:08, September 22, 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I changed the slot to optional since I think any of the above suggestions are better than Spirit Siphon.--Dfscott 18:28, September 28, 2009 (UTC)

Minions and spirits

Minions are considered allies, so if a minion gets hit, is the dmg reduced by shelter and union? I thought I read that somewhere.. If so, Your spirits are dead in 2 secs82.73.139.17 14:08, October 11, 2009 (UTC)

Yes and yes. Your spirits pretty much die in 2 seconds. Tbh, just use other spirits. That's what I do. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 14:10, 11 October 2009
Yea don't use the ritual lord guy, because a ritlord hero doesnt use his skills properly without microing and I - Hate - Microing Fleshcrawler Soban 23:04, October 29, 2009 (UTC)
Use Reclaim Essence. Heroes are surprisingly good with it. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 16:47, 30 October 2009

Why this build

Doesn't have the Hero tag ? Forgot to sign,sorry LassCritical Eye 21:33, November 8, 2009 (UTC) (Lass)

It does now. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 21:36, 8 November 2009

Human Build

I was wondering what build would go well with this build? Warrior build would be great :D 24.16.96.202 18:21, November 11, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much anything. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 18:43, 11 November 2009

SoS or reclaim essence

Which one would you guys recconmond?

SoS+SS = superior to nearly every other pure-ritualist elite-skill combination... which is really sad and makes painfully apperant how underused/underpowered 10+ other skills are.

Masochism

on the necro?

If you don't think you need the rez, it's worth it, but you may need an extra healer. KarateCandy!Jesus 20:01, 12 December 2009

Hench

which ones do you take with this build? Spaggage talk 03:53, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Ritual Lord Update

Do heroes use the new Ritual Lord skills correctly. If not this could seriously hamper the damage mitigation this build provides. Anybody tested yet? Irkm Desmet 10:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Oh i see someone changed Ritual Lord to Soul Twisting already. This was my first impulse too. Is this working with Heroes? Irkm Desmet 10:42, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
Heroes don't use Ritual Lord at all, so you'll have to keep Soul Twisting. They're not all that great with it either, but it's kind of hard to mess up....so. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 17:50, 26 February 2010

Life

Having played around with this build, it seems as though heroes hugely misuse this, putting it down as soon as it recharges rather than in combat. Would a better choice be Weapon of Shadow/Warding? --Ghostwheel 03:38, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Update

Build is hawt now. 5-5-x amd remove all votes below 4.8 :> Life Guardian 02:24, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

It's in great so it's fine (removed zyke'sst. michael's though since it was based on an old version). ToraenTheJanitorToraenSig2 03:27, 31 March 2010 (UTC)

Painful bond mainbar? Dok 22:50, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Heroes use it very poorly. They barely cast it, so it's only a truly effective option if you're prepared to put some attempt into balling foes, as well as microing painful bond. Life Guardian 02:23, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
There are nine damage spirits, though. Even if the hero doesn't use it as intelligently as a human might, it'll still add some significant damage. Dok 16:57, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Build:Team_-_Dual_Spirit_Spam ــѕт.мıкε 20:07, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

That's for 2 humans, and it's worse than this anyways =\ Life Guardian 20:16, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Replace 3rd hero? i still dont have my second ritualist hero,and dont want bother getting him,any good replacments?109.67.184.80 14:04, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Probably replace the SoS rit with an SoS necro. Life Guardian 15:51, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

Optional Elite on Last Hero

Don't get me wrong, SoGM is great and all, but Soul Twisting might be optimal if you actually want to move at a decent pace. Actually, even Rit Lord might be a good option, considering that there's really nothing on the bar except spirits, so the hero can't fuck it up.

Any thoughts? Oh, and the variants/optionals need to be cleaned up. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 16:25, 12 April 2010

There really aren't any problems with movement speed, and SoGM blows shit up. ST/RL would be a waste. I also don't see what's wrong with the optionals. Life Guardian 16:51, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
Aegis. So, the hero doesn't have problems with keeping up? Karate KJ for sig Jesus 17:01, 12 April 2010
Nope, no problems. My results might be different though, as ive been using it in places where you have to set up spirits and then pull shit into them. What's wrong with Aegis? Dual aegis is faggotry. Ofc, i guess enfeebling would be better overall, seeing as how melee rarely makes it past your spirit/minion wall. Life Guardian 17:11, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
i dont see why aegis has been put there. hench have it if you're desperate to keep it up (which you dont really need to, as life says above). - AthrunFeya Lau bfly - 17:24, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
I run all Necros since SR>any rit energy management. I also drop SoGM for wanderlust. Docta Jenkins 21:50, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
My Rits never have mana problems. Do yours? Anyway Aegis is prety meh when you have such a huge wall of spirits and minions. SoGM doesnt really hamper your speed because it makes your spirits make big bams = kill mobs faster. By the time you get to next mob all your spirits should be recharged. ~Iggy
Or dead or still recharging, tbh. Dissonance lasts 26 seconds and recharges in 45. 30 seconds is already pushing it, tbh. If you had to, though, you could aggro groups and bring them back to the Spirits. >.> ــѕт.мıкε 22:36, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
Rits=stronger spirits=fast killing. Also, wanderlust is terrible. Life Guardian 22:29, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
ups. An N/Rt doesn't have enough Attribute points to split into Soul Reaping, Restoration Magic and Channeling Magic effectively. ــѕт.мıкε 22:36, April 12, 2010 (UTC)
Actually it can. :> 10 Chan for Splinter. 12 Resto. There you just hit all the important breakpoints. Feel free to dump the rest of attributes into SR. Buuut you don't need heals on your heroes unless doing 4 man areas. 16 spec splinter/arage is still way better than 10 spec one. Oh and obviously spirits on 16 spec are godly. So if you want spirits go Rt primary instead of N. Ignore this if your comment was sarcasm. ~Iggy
You'll end up with very weak Spirits that way, but it's the Communing Rit I should have been talking about. >.> You could manage a Communing N/Rt (Soul Reaping and Communing only), but there would still be a pretty decent loss (+1+3), but not as bad as an N/Rt with SoS and Resto. ــѕт.мıкε 11:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Who are you? :o Also, i only bring mhenlo when i do most HM pve junk, and the little bit of partyhealing offered by my sos ownzzz. Life Guardian 00:53, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Igz it seems both of us have been forgotten :( Docta Jenkins 01:04, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Nuuhhh impossible we can't be forgottedz!!! >: --Myotheraccount 19:00, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Super igor? Life Guardian 01:06, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe! And who are you? :3 --Myotheraccount 18:59, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

meta?

dont think so but may i am wrong. Illoyon 18:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

It's not, although it really should be. Blows discord out of the water. Life Guardian 18:15, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Don't tell that to Guru'ers. Apparently half of them use it. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 18:46, 13 April 2010
Yeah.. having just replaced their racway bars. - AthrunFeya Lau bfly - 18:48, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Discord or spiritway? :o Life Guardian 18:48, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Are you guys serious about it not being meta? o.o; Because out of all cookie cutters I ran so far this one worked the bestest. :3 I herd that more people use secondary rit with spirits + Discord though. Pretty decent setup too but this one is better. --Myotheraccount 18:58, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Meta implies that it's actually used. Unfortunately, i don't think many actually use this, despite it's strength. Life Guardian 19:00, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Wtf. =/ Guess it's like Sorc using HP manastones in Aion; very effective yet for some reason few people do it. Oh well, there are always more narbs than good players so it's natural. Too bad they dictate the metas. :3 --Myotheraccount 19:06, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Who cares about manastones when your characters can be just that pretty :p - AthrunFeya Lau bfly - 19:10, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

How does the SoGM Rit fare with the long recharges and Energy costs? That's really the only thing keeping me from rating 5-5, tbh. Also, we should probably fix up Build:Team_-_Spiritual_Discord with these bars (or very close, at least). ــѕт.мıкε 19:50, April 13, 2010 (UTC)

Recharges are fine. SoGM rit has the perfect amount of energy to cast all of his spirits. If you micro and precast them, he'll be back up to 10 energy to cast something else relatively quickly. Give the build a testrun. It's ridiculous how powerful it is. Note: I probably wouldn't use this exact setup with a physical. Better off killing shit from range. Life Guardian 19:56, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
The only problem i sometimes have with the SoGM is that the hero will occasionally cast SoGM with only 1 spirit out. However, in the areas where you're not already precasting all spirits before agroing, there's not enough of a threat for the little bit of lost damage to matter. Life Guardian 19:59, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
^ He's right. SoGM is fine. I had to run Soul Twisting+Armor of Unfeeling in Vizunah Square HM to get Masters, but that's not a great example considering the HUGE and constant mobs. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 20:03, 13 April 2010
Problem with Vizunah is that shit comes from both sides. You can't use minions as a tank for both groups =\. Could probably work if you put bone minions on the sogm or something. Life Guardian 20:10, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
Tbh, I did Masters HM pretty easily by just replacing SoGM with Soul Twisting and adding AoU. I literally didn't change anything else. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 20:19, 13 April 2010

Twisting

Has anyone tried Soul Twisting on the Communing rit? It would pickup the pace of action and certainly help with energy management. Unless of course, heroes start spamming the newly recharged spirits... Bleh. Anyway, I'd probably put it as a Variant atleast and call the "SoGM" rit a "communing" or "secondary" rit. MinionSplinter WeaponExcluded 03:08, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Read the sentence directly above your edit. ST works fine with the build, and heroes tend to only re-use a spirit once it dies, so you're fine there. However, SoGM is worth using most of the time, so it's probably not really anything to worry about. Karate KJ for sig Jesus 03:16, 15 April 2010
Yeah, I didn't read that post before I left the edit; but in tougher areas I think it would be of more use with the heavy prot spirits. But if this is setup for general play then sure, SoGM all the way. MinionSplinter WeaponExcluded 03:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
The defensive communing spirits are a massive waste. If you don't need them for kath, frostmaw, etc in HM, you don't need them anywhere. Life Guardian 04:02, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Plus defensive spirits + minions is a big no no. Spaggage talk 14:05, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
^ Your enemies should be mostly targeting the minions/spirits anyway, so you should be fine. The only reason I had to use Twisting was because I was doing Vizunah Square HM and shit just keeps coming from every direction there. That rarely happens anywhere else (unless you overaggro like crazy). Karate KJ for sig Jesus 15:21, 15 April 2010
You can overaggro like crazy! Just precast spirits and make sure you have a few minions. Shit will die seconds after coming into spirit's range. --Myotheraccount lolspam lollololol iz bored 15:26, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Srsly

You guys should add AP caller to the player slot. Works epicly with spirits. --Iggy 's other account 15:34, April 22, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed it does, but this can be run by any player bar, so no reason to put it there. Life Guardian 15:57, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
Spirits don't target so wouldn't AP run out? I still think Discord may be better/faster due to not having to precast spirits, but that's probably because I use 2-man discord to vq and my friend is already a spirit spammer. We still rush mobs without precasting spirits, yay balance =/ 72.94.247.39 21:22, April 23, 2010 (UTC)
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