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(Survivor vs Radiant)
 
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I think it wont work :) --[[User:God Kamil|<b><font color="orange">God</font></b>]][[File:Focused Anger.jpg|19px]][[User Talk:God Kamil|<font color="black">Kamil</font>]] 20:09, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
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{{Archives|
:Explain.--[[User:Digitalfear|<span style="color:black;cursor:crosshair"><b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b></span>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 20:16, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
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[[Build talk:Team - UW Physway/Archive 1|Archive 1]]
::I think it just worked :):):):)[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 02:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
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}}
:::Thats a lot of Save Yourselves.[[User:pr0adam|<font color="deeppink">pr0adam!]]</font>'''[[Image:Spirtbondextendededition.jpg|19px]] 14:31, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
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{{TOCright}}
::::It's to keep Excluded/Minion from dying. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 15:56, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Incase anyone gets stripped, we have time to infuse, reprot, etc. before they explode via nu3kz. Someone care to finish the copypasta? qq [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 16:22, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::How are you going to do 4H?--[[User:Elf-e| Elf-e]][[File:Elf.jpg|19px]] 17:14, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::I'll write the usage for that in a little. It's pretty simple, though. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 17:21, May 31, 2010 (UTC)
 
Don't think 1 hex remover is enough tbh[[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 22:40, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
:O yea I don't really think dark fury is all that needed, think OotV would be a lot better[[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 23:02, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
 
::If spike damage is better, why are you running dagger chains? :< <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 03:01, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Because one dagger chain will kill a skeleton, and one chain used by 4~sins can kill an aatxe in one chain. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 07:00, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Right, I'll switch OoV back in. I prefer it too, but people would have asked why we weren't maximizing our damage zzzz. One hex removal seems sufficient; only really need it in Plains, and only the ERs need cleaning. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 07:30, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Be less lazy plox. I was so excited about UWing with this and you went RA. >: --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 09:14, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
would Technobabble make plains easier?[[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 05:38, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
:And while Im talking about EotN skills how about FH, IATS(I am the strongest), DT(dodge this), YMLAD Ebon wards[[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 05:41, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Only logical ones I would consider spammable enough would be Dodge This! If you want to run a ward, that's fine, though there'll be alot of downtime and you won't notice the difference, as you'll be killing too fast anyway. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:11, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
==Bonds==
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== Srsly menz. ==
If you are bonded by the E/Mo, does save yourselves reduce that damage further? I dont think it does, so it might not be worth it [[User:Zedone2|Zedone2]] 10:18, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
:should've read above ^^ [[User:Zedone2|Zedone2]] 10:19, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
::It's another layer of defence. If a Dying Nightmare strips someone, Save Yourselves will give the ER enough leeway to Infuse, prot and rebond. Same for GDW. Also, not much can replace it of any worth. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 11:09, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::How about have one sin bring save yourselves + dc, and put ee on everyone - so you can jump around... it'd make the runs faster and can provide a spike heal if one ER drops by accident -Phil
 
::::Thought about it before; we had one sin with DC and AoS to recharge it more often, so they could ball, and spike certain things cleaner (i.e. Keeper of Souls) But was proven ineffective in this setup. You lose alot of DPS when not running Ascan/BuH, for not enough gain. It's not a nuke; it's constant DPS. The Overextending always irritates me, because ERs can't heal Parties like Monks can, we rely on Infuse, and OoV/Blood Bond. With a mixed physical team, it would be different- however we can spare 2 seconds to get to the foe with the damage we're packing.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 17:22, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
 
4-4 split? for all areas aside from mountains they all bond everyone, so they would only lose 2 energy each hit instead of 3 and 4. And Shouldn't they bond themselves so they get an additional 4 energy every cast, vs having an additional 1 energy every 3 seconds. They should have no problem bonding everyone and themselves, maybe thats just me.[[User:JackdoesSCs|JackdoesSCs]] 18:23, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Some retard added the line about not bonding yourself. Would have hoped you could figure that out, heh. We played a bit with 4-4 and 8way bonding, but bonding all 8 is pointless in UW, and would only slow you down when re-bonding and maintaining energy. Bonding all eight is only really useful when in massive mobs, where the extra energy per hit can be the difference between life and death. In UW, it's negligible. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:26, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Overall, Terrible ==
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Wtf with the silly SoS Rit? Terrible bar is terrible. =/ --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
[[File:PVX.jpg|thumb|UW Physway HM]]
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:And now terrible runes? You can't give anything two major + superior rune=dead soon kk.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 11:48, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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::I didn't add them. Juze did. I fixed them to minors and [http://pvx.wikia.com/index.php?title=Build%3ATeam_-_UW_Physway&diff=1085884&oldid=1085878 you reverted back to double majors] so I thought you wanted double majors Zzz. Anyway, what sense does it make to take a lvl7 offensive spirit? It will die in one hit from anything. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 12:23, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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:::Higher spawning is prefered because it gives the spirits more health - so they can be hit + remain alive [ and more chance of being under 50% for BuH! buff ] rather than spirit damage.. which is pitiful compared to the physicals. --[[User:Chieftain Alex|Chieftain Alex]] [[User talk:Chieftain Alex|''<font color="Black">"talk"</font>'']] 13:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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::::Fixed again. xD <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 14:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::Oh and terrible template usage: You made the build use 201/200 attribute points. You're terrible yourself. Good game. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 14:44, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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::::::lvl13 spirit at 11 spawning > lvl12 spirit at 12 spawning. You are clueless. Also, don't go calling people terrible when you are a [KISS] shitter. :S --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 14:46, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::I agree with igor. [[User:Docta Jenkins|Docta Jenkins]] 20:56, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
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::::::::Such a big deal unbalancing: 26 vs 25 dmg, +20 health vs +5 armor. It's much better now, get over it. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 08:02, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::::No, it's not and you are retarded. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 10:13, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
   
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== Imbafaggotnames ==
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I vote that the next person to change the name is banned. Following edits should have bans as well. This is retarded bullshit. Pick a name and leave it there. [[User:Docta Jenkins|Docta Jenkins]] 01:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:Quoted by Excluded: ''"Yes; I was the one who CHANGED them to being called "WotA sins" because "Imbasin" sounded fucking retarded.".'' So screw the imbasin name, sin without SY is no imba. Call them spikers, WotA or just sins/assassins. But really, I see Imbasin again which is like so retarded. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 07:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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::What's more retarded people still keep getting into revert wars over something so irrelevant. Who cares how the build is called? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 10:18, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:::PVX PEOPLE DO BUILD NAMES ARE SRS BSNS--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 12:31, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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::::SENSE NONE MAKE COMMENT YOURS. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 14:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
   
Where are the pictures? How am I supposed to do this if you don't explain everything for me?--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 09:25, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
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Yeah I can't really see how such trivial shit even requires a section. "Imbasin(s)" isn't descriptive to the least, <s>and there's no correlation to the automatic association of imbagons and SY.</s> Anyone who calls Jagged-Fox-Blossom a spike should also just uninstall the game for not knowing the difference between pressure and a spike. "WotA sins" is simple and descriptive, cut the custom names shit out. --'''<span style="font-family:Lithos Pro Regular;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="goldenrod">DANDY]] [[User_talk:Chaos|^_^]]''' </font></span>-- 14:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
:As in, for someone who has no prior knowledge of UW or a whole team? They can learn through trial and error, then. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:33, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Don't see why we couldn't get lots of screens and post a guide... probably a better idea to put it up on guru though.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 16:21, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Screen of end chest or it doesn't work. And in HARD MODE, it will most definitely never work. Welcome to Clumsiness and Riposte spam. --[[User:Risus|Risus]] 02:18, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Riposte spam? You must be mad. About the mindblades; they have quite low health since the update and go down quickly. Clumsiness doesn't impede speed by that much. I posted screens previously, but as you wish.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 08:52, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:::::Screen of Dhuum killed. 2:02 so not our best run, but proof that this works on HM. [[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:50, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
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Okay this trivial bullshit has gone on too long (it's also in the archive, Chaos). It was some IP who reverted 9 times before being blocked. I'm expecting them to be left as WotA assassins and have left a note at the bottom of the page saying they're sometimes called imbasins (because i have actually seen them called this in game). If I hear any more about this, whoever brings it up will be silenced accordingly. <small>[[User:Athrun Feya|<font color="Blue">'''Athrun'''</font>]][[File:Athrun_dot.png]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|<font color="DeepPink">'''Feya'''</font>]]</small> 21:58, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:I like Lau's new sig. <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 00:32, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
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:: I like Lau in general. [[User:Docta Jenkins|Docta Jenkins]] 05:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
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::I do too, but she needs to make the dots have a transparent background, wow. [[User:Brandnew|Brandnew ]] 08:45, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
   
== Comments on Usage ==
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== WTF... ==
   
^Would be nice. If anything can be done differently to improve speed, I'd like to hear your ideas. I imagine you could probably make a split or two for Mountains/Pools and Vale. So yes; comments and questions. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 13:15, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
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How the fuck did this trash become the meta... aside from the fact that all the failer sins can now do UW. This is a fucking joke you can take any team with 2 EMo's (rofl at ER1 and ER2 they are just 2 terrible EMo bars) and finish UW you can take 4 fucking Beast Mastery rangers and finish... --[[User:Risus|Risus]] 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
: I think the split we just discussed would be very useful. For people who weren't there ill post it up here: After chamber/uwg/escort 3Sins and 1 ER head off up to mountains to pop the reaper. During this time, the Necro 2nd ER and 2 Assassins do the Vale quest. After which, everyone teles up to Mountains. Thus saving 5/10 minutes or so.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 16:20, June 3, 2010 (UTC)
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:PUG friendly is why it's meta tbh. I wouldn't get to pent up about it. --[[User talk:The Short One|<font color="black"><b>''Short''</b></font>]] 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:: Im guessing your ER bars consist of Burning Speed spam. lal. [[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 17:44, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:::I'm guessing I don't play GW anymore? --[[User talk:The Short One|<font color="black"><b>''Short''</b></font>]] 17:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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::::I was talking to Risus.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 17:46, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::Lolol. Sorry, indenting made me lolwut. --[[User talk:The Short One|<font color="black"><b>''Short''</b></font>]] 17:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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:ubad. cba to make this comment more constructive, not worth my time. --[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 18:25, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
   
== Vote ==
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:Yeah as was kind of pointed out already, the build with the best possible Efficiency/Skill (Effort) rate becomes meta, not the one with the highest efficiency rate. In English, 123 + bonds + orders is pretty PUG-friendly, so it's an easy meta choice. Compare to Sway meta, if you know any PvP. --'''<span style="font-family:Lithos Pro Regular;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="goldenrod">DANDY]] [[User_talk:Chaos|^_^]]''' </font></span>-- 18:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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::Someone will need to edit the page in a way to put greater focus on how important it is to have high energy. Most pugs I've been in think it's okay to have 80-95 energy. It all comes back to the how un-pug-friendly the ER builds are. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 00:38, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
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:::At first I had my doubts about this build, but once pugging a little I found that most of the ERs out there don't know how to properly use an EMo bar. Also, bad EMo = fail. With the immense inexperience of ERs, this isn't very pug friendly, as none of them know what they are doing. In addition, putting burning speed on both ERs instead of shield guardian/prot spirit makes life SO much easier, especially when the Emos are inexperienced. ER>Infuse>Burning Speed>Infuse>Burning Speed.. ect. This helps especially if ER1 dies during a failable quest, and being a PUG, res isn't very fast (shield guardian is the only spammable spell that doesn't cause you to explode your health) Burning speed is much more pugfriendly. -Phil
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::::Burning Speed will just mean even more people incapable of running a rather easy build. If you have the right equipment (high energy) and have decent knowledge of the area, it's hard to suck with the bars posted.
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::::The biggest problem I've noticed is that PUG ER's don't spam infuse (despite being only slightly less spammable than Burning Speed).--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 05:11, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
   
gogogo
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:I'm aware that new players should learn how to run this team build, but it can be very tiring just to lose 500g-1k to PUGs. Excluded doesn't like that I run exp groups (Show stones, 2+ stones approved for team or something), but it's currently in it's best form. (Though I've been wondering if the original E/Mo build would work better for energy etc. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 05:54, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
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::What I've noticed of the really bad ERs, is they try and spam their enchantments on themselves, not spamming Infuse, ending up out of range from everyone else and running out of energy. They just need to learn to play better. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 05:57, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
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I'm an ER and I go to PUGs often most of my fails are noob sins popping reaper in mountains when I tell them not to kill dryders. Also noob sins attacking BDRs we don't need to kill. Ritualist doesn't know how to build a wall for 4H. What I'm trying to say is it's not just ERs in PUGs.
   
== Buh! ==
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== psyway and imbasins ==
is buh really worth it? no one should be below 50% health so its only gonna have at most 1/3 uptime [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 11:25, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 
:ERs spamming infuse- you can expect them to be below 50% quite often during a fight. But the uptime in mobs is fine, as it only takes 10 seconds tops to take out a mob. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 12:05, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Monks? ==
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That does seem to be what people call it. whether we want the builds to reflect in-game names like we've done with all the other builds is a matter of consistency though, i'd prefer consistency over what people would logically call the build--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 22:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Whar iz da hee-ulz? [[Special:Contributions/94.30.43.217|94.30.43.217]] 07:21, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
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:Might as well just call them imbasins, no-one lets anything else join a group, I've tried. They seem to think sins are the only thing that can do it, so they clearly cannot follow links at the bottom of the page. [[User:Zedone2|Zedone2]] 22:50, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
:1/10 --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 08:55, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
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::Obviously they can't. I've been sitting in ToA for the past hour or so and have seen them called WotA and imbasin, but i have yet to see someone call this psyway. <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 22:52, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
::Have a go at answering this yourself. Where are the heals? [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 08:57, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
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:::Seen at least 3-5 times. Psyway. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 09:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
Is it really reasonable to all of 4HW at the Reaper due to update, or are all the PUG ER Infoozers going to explode and cry in an amusing way? [[Special:Contributions/66.230.102.10|66.230.102.10]] 10:54, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
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::::I've already made a redirect from "psyway" and as far as i'm concerned the imbasins issue is solved. <small>[[User:Athrun Feya|<font color="Blue">'''Athrun'''</font>]][[File:Athrun_dot.png]][[User talk:Athrun Feya|<font color="DeepPink">'''Feya'''</font>]]</small> 09:34, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
:Rephrase that, because I didn't quite understand the question. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 14:34, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
::I think he means: Is it wise to do the Four Horsemen quest at the reaper due to update (i guess either leech signet or the skeletons), because he thinks pug ER ele's will explode and Q_Q [[User:Lukyboy|<font color="Green">'''Lยкץ๒๏ץ'''</font>]] [[User talk:Lukyboy|''<font color="Blue">talk</font>'']] 22:07, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Better than Tweet/Terra/Expway? ==
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== HM/NM ==
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Isn't this build made for HM. People are doing NM group and my guild mates said that is dumb because HM and NM with Physway is basically the same difficulty. Is this true?
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:Yup. Everything you said is true. :p--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 15:32, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
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::Assuming everyone is bonded, then it won't make much difference. Clumsiness will be spammed just as much, Behmoths will still block, Aatxe will still deal 25~damage per attack. Dying Nightmares will still cast Rend Enchantments. Aatxe will still use Savage Slash, Grasping will still use Distracting Blow and Mindblades will still use Leech Signet. The Four Horsemen will still use Diversion and Shatter Enchantment. Also pretty sure Behmoth traps will still trigger PB. Things will attack slower. So yes, it's pointless.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 16:04, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
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::: only diff is that the spirits stay alive longer amd ememies die faster --[[User:Pryon|Pryon]] 18:00, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
   
The title says it all. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 13:00, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
+
== Possible <60 mins? ==
:That depends on how you get your "kicks". If you like to clear areas as fast as possible, then no. If you like to waste a minimal amount of time and have fun; kick off the shoes, loosen the tie, etc. Then yes. It's alot more fail-safe, too. The only rocky ground for a PUG would be 4Horsemen I think, but I hope I have explained it well enough for them. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 13:07, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
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Would it be possible to do this in under 60 minutes. I'm saying clear chamber,split for vale/mnts,UWG,meet together for planes,then split pools/pitts?
:You trade a little bit of speed for a lot of fun and reliability. (And puggability for that matter)--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 13:15, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:Well, the fastest you'll probably be able to do without further splitting from the guide is about 1:25. That's no deaths, clean kills, no talking...etc. I still want to try the 4-4 split which I theorised in the archive with the guild. However, they would rather finish it in one piece, than try and split, fail and die. I am of the understanding people are already doing these splits, though; wouldn't mind hearing from them. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 19:57, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
:Much slower than those but much faster for a PUG if you take time wasted on fails and re-grouping a SC into cinsideration. In other words, this is much more reliable than a SC and hence faster, also moar fun. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 14:46, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::You could also send the SoS off to clear wastes during the run to Mts, would have to tinker with his build a bit, but it'd be possible.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 11:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
:: No its not. A Destruction -> Rupture Soul on an SoS does just as much if not more damage than the 3 sins spamming for 5 seconds. and its pure AoE. So basically you can do chamber + vale + escort about 5x as fast because the MT in terraway can ball EVERYTHING up and you can blow it up. Also you have the SS so don't forget that. And solo sins that split and do areas will always ALWAYS be faster and more reliable than a full team of 8 clearing everything in the mountains and planes to do it. --[[User:Risus|Risus]] 15:03, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Videos? ==
+
I think ~50 minutes is possible with an experienced team and no fucking around (usually spend about 10-15 mins per run insulting Excluded for dying so much as an ER).--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 13:50, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:Not without splitting, no way. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 14:48, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::We've gotten ~1:20 with tons of BS and inefficiency. The few splits we do use can be made a bit better though (maybe an extra split for UWG for example). Cutting off 30 minutes seems like a lot, but not so much when you consider how often we run in circles figuring out what quest to do next, unnecessary deaths, or wasting time insulting you. Then again, UW might not be as fun if we took those things out.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 15:13, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
   
Would somebody make a video tut for sins, maybe? :3 <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 16:10, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
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Under 60 minutes is absolutely possible. Our fastest guild run with no splits is 57 minutes .--[[User:valvoga|<b><font color="Black">Lord</font></b>]][[User_talk:valvoga|<b><font color="Red"> Valvoga</font></b>]] 21:40, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
: I'll look into it, you're more than welcome to join us on a run though sometime if you want.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 17:19, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:Might want to edit the guide, if you strayed from it and achieved a better time. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 00:33, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
::Spam everything on recharge. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 23:28, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
==So, what's the average time?==
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we didnt stray from the guide at all so no need to edit it-LV
And also, are guilds running this? Cause I can't seem to find any PUGs willing to run this [[File:Tyrael.png]]--[[User talk:Tyraelxy|<font color="Black">(Talk)]]</font> 17:42, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Not many PuGs about running this, but we are trying to raise awareness. Currently our guild runs this with people off the friends list. Average time is about ~1:45 but we're discussing splits etc in the hope of bringing that down.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 17:45, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Vale done in 15 minutes without cons. :O You also have to start a new run, takes 5-10 minutes to set up. No need for cons if taking Glyph of Swiftness on Emos. Btw, Escort is damn hard to do, everybody dies. What am I doing wrong? <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 19:21, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::We prefer to use EoC as not only does it speed the party up, it allows the ER's to take 2 more skills between them. Our usual tactic on Escort is to have everyone wait at the bottom of the stairs bar 1 ER or the OoV (quest taker). When the blades spawn we're able to wipe the 3 groups out with ease before the Souls even get close.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 19:26, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Yes, you definitely '''need''' Essence, so you can maintain ER without the crutch that is GoS. Make sure no one Over-extends; make the sins spam Ascan to cancel Hex Breaker, then the OoV can get Blood Bond down. Refrain from Infuse spamming *too* often; because you'll be soon targeted by the mindblades. Run back out of aggro range when re-casting ER. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 19:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::is there a reason you dont use critical agility specifically?--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 21:35, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::You get an extra PvE slot, that is of more damage value. WotA + EoC=33% IAS. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 21:37, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::Also, +20 al is redundant because of bonds.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 21:38, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Escort is still too hard, Clumsiness and Migraine kills all the sins and bam, it's over. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 09:29, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Nobody should be dying. Are the ERs actually casting? Mindblades aren't that hard to deal with; other than pulling back to cast Ether and throwing down general protection magic and infuses, there's really no thought involved.[[Special:Contributions/66.230.102.10|66.230.102.10]] 02:29, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::I was also thinking of SoS here, spirits would block the stairs, maybe? <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 09:30, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::We used to use an SoS spammer, but it's not really required; for some people it would be good as a safety net, though. Could make one sin optional. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 11:16, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::What about a 3rd EMO or an UA monk? '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 17:05, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::And it seems to be a lot better with SoS like it is currently. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 14:54, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== profs ==
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We didn't "stray" from "your" guide. no splits at all full team stays together, we will also beat the 57 minutes soon. I may decide to film it to shut you up. If you'd leave up the screen shot, get skills and quit hatin' we could help improve even your runs and the runs of any PUG. Its all about the order in which you do things. - Ecto Farmin Machine
could the sins be played by other classes? i dont see any noticeable difference between them and http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build%3AW/A_Enduring_Dagger (with buh! and frenzy instead of flail)[[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 21:43, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:The answer is yes, they can. We regularly take Dervs and Warriors and occasionally the odd Ranger, we prefer Sins due to the high attack speed = more triggers of all the buffs. But any type of physical can be used i suppose.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 21:51, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::how is the sins attack speed any different then the warrior using daggers? [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 21:56, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I think he means a generic any/A build roarer--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 21:55, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Ah sorry, I misunderstood. Sure you can take that build, it looks fine. As far as x/a's go, as long as they've got good energy management then I don't see a reason why not.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 21:59, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::ok then shouldnt we add all the any/a builds as variants on the main pg? [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 22:01, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::No need. Not that you have to have these exact Dagger builds anyway. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 22:54, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::Everyone has a sin anyways--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 22:56, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::I think it should atleast be noted so that people dont think those sin builds are the only viable options [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 22:58, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::go head and add the note then--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 23:10, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::So I can revert it. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:21, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Orders Variant ==
+
== GoC? ==
Monk primary
 
{{pvxsmall|Order of the Vampire|Blood Bond|Draw Conditions|Blessed Signet|Smite Hex|Remove Hex|Strength of Honor|Optional|12|12|0|4|16|0|16|0}} +8 from SoH and only -4 from OoV. Yeah, less healing from blood bond and OoV, but do you really need it? I also remain skeptical over the Necro's energy management, since it has a -1 energy regen, and there sometimes is a fair distance to walk/wait between fights. [[User:AegisDok|Dok]] 00:10, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
: That'll work, yeah. 16 smiting, 9 divine and 10 blood?[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:13, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Yeah, something like that. I don't know how much divine the monk would need; it might not need the full 15 from Blessed. I haven't tested it out. [[User:AegisDok|Dok]] 01:05, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I was originally thinking 12/12/3. + 4 smiting for casting SoH. +4 for blessed. Though, that wouldn't net the full 15 energy. [[User:AegisDok|Dok]] 02:19, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
this build really needs skillz emo's... and times would be a lot faster if u grab 1 terra to do pools + mnts + pits?
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I think it could be better for ERs to have a Glyph of Concentration, it could help a lot during 4h. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 13:00, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
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:No need the ERs just need to move outside range of mindblades when casting ER. Outerworld 13:16, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:What helps 4H is enchants. The more the better, beacuse of the mass-stripping the Horsemen can cause in such short time. GoC, like GoS, would be a crutch and not very helpful. Leech Signet can rupt it also, and so can MS. So why would it help exactly?[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 14:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
   
== run time ==
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== Wild Blow VS Wild Strike ==
   
how long is a run with this build?
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People think it'd be better to have Golden Fox Strike->Wild Strike; instead of Jagged-FF- Wild Blow. Atleast, the one person who keeps editing it in wherever possible. It's most definitely better to take Wild Blow seeing as you're only going to use it ~10 times in one area, then it will be useless. You will be sacrificing your quick-attack chain for the rest of UW, which will just slow you down. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 14:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
:[[Build_talk:Team_-_UW_Physway#So.2C_what.27s_the_average_time.3F]]
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:I tried bringing wild strike last time we did it, unfortunately you realise very quickly that if lead is blocked 3/4 times its inferior to instant removal via blow. --[[User:Chieftain Alex|Chieftain Alex]] [[User talk:Chieftain Alex|''<font color="Black">"talk"</font>'']] 15:02, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
::Sign comments <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 15:58, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:Also fox strike is slow activation. would be boring for rest of uw. --[[User:Chieftain Alex|Chieftain Alex]] [[User talk:Chieftain Alex|''<font color="Black">"talk"</font>'']] 15:04, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:: for your information, i put the golden fox strike->wild strike there, but only by optional and i only put i there ONCE. i know its inferior to jagged strike now but don't go claiming i keep editing it wherever possible --[[User:Pryon|Pryon]] 16:56, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
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:::Are you also the IP? If not, then I wasn't aiming the statement at you. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 17:38, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
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::In general PvE, I've found Fox Fangs to be better again. While it has ½ usage time + 33% IAS (Or 20% in UW Physway with essence?), it's actually faster to spike with than Wild Strike that has no described usage time. I've also had to wait 0,5 seconds to use Wild Strike again in general PvE and stance removal doesn't really deserve much usage in PvE again. So I'll go for FF. Try to understand. o_O <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 19:30, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
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:::thats because the 1/2sec attack skills ignore the normal one attack per 1.33 attack speed. And just jump on in there :D where at wildstrike needs to wait for the right point in teh sequence (off 1 attack per 1.33sec) to go off. hence why you get such good spike compression with them. Wild strike also has the draw back of jagged missing/been blocked ofc. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 20:11, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
   
== Monk Variant ==
+
== CritScythes. ==
   
I think it would be easier if seed of life as added on one or both of the monks, maybe intstead of spirit bond. Nialiss 16:37, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
+
Should we really start replacing WotAs with CritScythes? I know it's in Guru but people won't let any other than WotAs inside, Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb + AoE damage. At least until we get that dervish/scythe update. Plus imbagon update. o_O <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 08:36, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
:Note 1: They're elementalists. Note 2: Seed of Life requires Divine Favour to function. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 16:58, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:Did I mention +33% IAS? <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 08:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
::Whoops, sorry I ment the other seed heal thing
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::There was talk on this page before on how almost anything other than WotA' were bad due to the single target damage of daggers. Scythes are too slow. So no, there isn't any chance of them being replaced. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 08:45, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::oh dear.... the sins are optimal but any physical works...it says that on the page/links/guide..(unless some shitter removed it xD) scythe is fine as an alt, but remove aohm for ebsoh..r/a daggers, d/w zv, w/x anything, a/d scythe. Ppl should learn to read eh? *edit it seems some one DID remove the not about 'other physicals can also be taken, but wota sins are optimal'.on this page..no wonder pugs wont take more than sins :P they can only do what they are told in black n white :P[[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 10:55, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
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::Juze, stop being bad. Essence + WotA = 33% IAS and Crit Scythe doesn't get OoP bonus because of Holy damage. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 13:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::I said: <span style="color:green;">"Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb"</span>. And I'm not even sure if Essence + WotA stack. Meh. YMLaD ftw. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 19:35, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::I don't care what you think, you are a terrible shitter who knows nothing. Shut up. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:23, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::To be fair, if AoHM's bonus damage is higher than OoP's, there's no reason in passing up holy damage. It'd only be a concern if there was a MoP nuker in the team. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 20:05, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
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::::Oi, its <nowiki>{{quote|i fucked your mother}}</nowiki>, it will come out as {{quote|i fucked your mother}} if you want to quote.--[[User:Oskar|<font color="black">Oskar</font>]] 20:07, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::::No one brought that up. Go troll Jews' page. Novelty input or gtfo. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 20:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
:::::: i think that giving his mother a novelty input would be a better course of action :D tits blah blah or somethingTFO and scythes are slow and boring..[[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 20:53, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::::piss off, i was telling him how to quote cause he did it wrong.--[[User:Oskar|<font color="black">Oskar</font>]] 21:01, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::::: You indent by using one more ":" that the last person, I'm just telling you because you did it wrong..and over defensive much? and i was implying you should give his mother some novely input and not fuck her.. its pvx.. and daggers are more fun than scythes![[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 21:34, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::::::You indent by using 1 more : then the person you are '''replying''' to. I did not do it wrong, i was not making any contribution to the build i was explaining to juze the way to be wikily correct when quoting. Shut up.--[[User:Oskar|<font color="black">Oskar</font>]] 22:26, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::Then take it up with Jews on his talk page. This is useless clutter.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 23:38, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
  +
To the Jayson guy above, nothing will kick out single target damage like these dagger sins ever, which imo is what you are ideally looking for. Juze was just being Juze when he decided that he thought scythes would be good. Anything else like you mentioned like war/rangers will just be bad. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 23:44, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
   
==How could we get more rezzes?==
+
100b>daggersin>scythe(war, derv, sin)>ES>everything else
As I have seen it seems to be the only flaw in this build, completely relying on the OoV for res. I'm not quite sure where you could add some in, but I think it's the most major problem. [[Special:Contributions/98.210.8.185|98.210.8.185]] 22:37, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
:I've swapped out one of the Sins for a SoS "lurer/tank" role; to basically redirect Mindblade attention, Dying Nightmares and the like. Flesh Of My Flesh on it, should be enough as the SoS has a wall to hide behind. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 23:16, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::or you could just bring rez scrolls 22:06, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== BrBamingo, Cuilan, and Risus ==
+
Minion doesn't like 100b mainly cause it requires MoP + coordination...and any team with Minion in it will be too busy insulting him for being a failure to follow MoP calls.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 01:38, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
their votes are WAYYYYYY off.--[[User:Bluetapeboy|Bluetapeboy]] 22:58, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:{{quote|single target damage}} The daggerchain takes about a second to run through to single targets, as well as anything else unlucky enough to get caught next to you by DB. 100b warr couldn't match that damage even if he tried. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 01:54, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
:They expect to switch from Perma to Balanced-ish teams and expect to own UW in Hard Mode with unorganised PUGs? It would initially fail as much as any PUG run would. It's mostly down to the experience of the ERs, and the Physicals have to have No Fear. The more aggressive the physicals, and ability to lure well, the faster and safer it will be. Cuilan just hates everything that's OP. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 23:19, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
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{{quote|oh dear.... the sins are optimal but any physical works...it says that on the page/links/guide..(unless some shitter removed it xD) scythe is fine as an alt, but remove aohm for ebsoh..r/a daggers, d/w zv, w/x anything, a/d scythe. Ppl should learn to read eh? *edit it seems some one DID remove the not about 'other physicals can also be taken, but wota sins are optimal'.on this page..no wonder pugs wont take more than sins :P they can only do what they are told in black n white :P}} Yeah, lol, try and get any other profession into UW with this build and you will be laughed at. Oh well, at least we can seperate the pugs prety easily. [[User:Zedone2|Zedone2]] 18:03, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
::Culian's a narb other's are whorus. Funny how you guys dominate this wiki as far as votes on your builds go. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:22, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::The build is creative but to be honest 2hr ++ runs are not fun at all plus with a high change to fail(mindblades at escort, planes). Pug sins just rush into every red dot they see, and like posted on top it mostly depends on the button mashing of the Ers.My suggestion, instead of a rit or a 5th Sin bring a Sf perma or Sb monk to tank or just ball the aggro for faster kills. Bring wild blow for Sins so behemoths in mnts go down easier. --[[User:brbamigo|brbamigo]]
 
::::Shouldnt be 2h if most people werent running it first time. ;p Tbh an average UWSC won't finish in one conset, maybe in two after failing a few runs. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 02:31, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::You can't say the builds are bad because people can't use them. Parties have been formed for two days only, by PUGs. This means EVERYONE knows jack shit on how to run it properly.
 
::::: Also, when you are the leader, or the only one who knows about UW; You have permission to draw, shout and tell everyone what to do. More communication with your team, less QQing about failing. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 07:57, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::Tbh only reason we failed when I played with you was because nobody listened to Minion at 4H. He told people to fight horses closes but no, they had to do it at the tight spot where there got body blocked by Terrorwebs. Don't blame the build blame the idiots. Regardless, everything apart from 4H was easy, at least much easier than SC. People sound like a clueless party won't fail an UWSC yeah right. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:36, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Should take it up on there talk page.---[[User talk:Xtreme1ne|<font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua;">'''X'''</span></font>]]<font color="#696969"><small>TREME</small></font> 10:11, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
WTF Cuilan's vote? This IS NOT speedclear.--[[User:ValeV|ValeV]] 13:14, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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== "YMLaD!" ==
:They are all from the same alliance, Cuilan just wants to troll. Actually this should be excellent, but a troll is a troll. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 13:57, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
I'd love to try this (and my friend too). IGN: Valev Assasinko.--[[User:ValeV|ValeV]] 14:30, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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Just because they move like dwarfs. Should we have this PvE-only skill on our lovely SoS-rit? Combined with Earthbind it's superb, 3 second knockdown support and quick interrupt for Rend Enchantments. <3 <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 08:59, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
:Just played with Excluded, one of the authors. Failed during UWG because of rushing and taking control over him. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 14:44, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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:Nothing better to give the rit really so yeah decent optional [[User:Tyraelxy|<font color="Maroon"><span style="font-family:Roman;">'''Tyrael'''</span></font>]][[User_talk:Tyraelxy|<font color="Black"><span style="font-family:Roman;"> Strikes Back-</span></font>]] 13:17, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
::Same shit happened at 4H last time. Nobody listens. Oh and we had a terribad Necro who needs to l2ff. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 14:48, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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::vampirism--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 03:58, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
:::This is really offtopic. Anyway, my vote got wiped and it's back up in Excellent category. Yays. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 14:52, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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:::I just tested this one, it's great with Earthbind but causes a bit energy trouble to SoS. :/ <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 19:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
::::Not really. People hate the build wfter they made sure to be epicfail at everything. Seriously, apart from Minion nobody really knew what they were doing and I was the only one who listened it seems. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 14:54, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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::::Wtf, you have Spirit Siphon. How can you '''not''' have too much energy?--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 19:12, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Ha, i lol'd. Energy is intense on Necro, especially in Mts with Natures renewal and 5 sins to clean, don't forget about the 4s recharge. Our guild has done this run countless times, infact the only 'clueless person' on the run last night was you.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 21:07, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::Can't say it's hevier on energy than other Rit build that are used in SC. Energy is as much of a problem as you allow it to become. ;o Juze you are just hopelessly terrible. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:19, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
::::::Not saying I wasn't since I never run this before. :3 But I listened to orders so that I don't do anything stupid. Oh and energy shouldn't be an issue with FF when so much conditions are stacked. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 21:42, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::When sins are camping traps, and all going 'moar SoH' conditions can't be removed quicker than they are gained[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 22:22, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Draw Conditions ==
+
== Four Horseman ==
Even if the necro has Foul Feast he's not able to keep up with [[gww:Throw Dirt|this]] on mountains '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 17:12, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:There won't be much behemoths to kill, only at the reaper [[File:Tyrael.png]]--[[User talk:Tyraelxy|<font color="Black">(Talk)]]</font> 17:58, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Right. It's not really a problem. You kill two mobs of Behmoths; two below the Reaper (as he fights them if you don't) and the Behmoths inside the Reaper's Statue. Make sure not to pop him before killing the Behmoths or the excrement will hit the rotating device. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 18:12, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Funny how much influence PvX has on the playerbase. :p ==
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9 out of 10 PUG groups fail at this quest because either the ER's don't know what to do or sins rush off to kill the horseman and die. Because of this i made allot of additions to the guide, please comment if you think i have left anything out.--[[Special:Contributions/122.106.168.44|122.106.168.44]] 12:25, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
   
It's on great for two days and half of ToA is running it already. Pretty hilarious tbh.--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 20:10, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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: Why do people always blame the ER when they fail 4H. To be honest all of my PUG fails in 4H are from noob sins I never saw an ER fail at this quest. It is ALWAYS sins being noobs over-extending, leaving before the whole side is cleared, being noobs getting their chain diverted, splitting. The list goes on and on. Who cares if the rt is inexp it's allowed to die. The quest is still easy even if he dies he doesn't have to stall the horsemen forever.
:True story. DOMINATE PVX DOMINATE THE WHOLE <!---DEAD----> GAME!!!!!! --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 22:14, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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::Its true that is usually the sins fault for overextending. I myself usually play as an ER and find that either the primary ER doesn't spam cover enchants on the group and the group dies or the secondary ER doesn't spam enchants on the reaper and the reaper dies. It's not all about infusing, but if the sins overextend i guess you cant prot them anyway so its there fault if they die. --[[User:Gift X|Gift X]] 18:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
::Looks like it. ;p--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 22:35, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::players don't make accounts they just watch and steal....---[[User talk:Xtreme1ne|<font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua;">'''X'''</span></font>]]<font color="#696969"><small>TREME</small></font> 22:47, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::What you don't realize is that manlyway originated on pvx, and has made fow the most consistently run elite area for almost a year now. <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 22:49, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::True story. Hence what I said is true. :3 --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:02, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
[[Image:DOMINATE PVX DOMINATE THE GAME.jpg]]
 
   
I logged on just to see if what Digital said was true. Lmao it is, we even got EXPs already. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 22:51, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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I know its asking a lot from pugs, but the easiest way to finish 4h non fail is to have a good rit who can pull the pools side aggro slowly behind reaper. Which gives Pits side ample time to finish. The rit requires cover enchants though.--Lord Valvoga
:Told ya. :p--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 23:10, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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:Like I said before even if you have a good rit in a PUG. Trust me I've been with pretty amazing rits with me that can stall pools side until we are finished with pitts and still be alive when we are done. But the sins just split up like retards or get their chains diverted like morons. It's really the sins for PUGs i'm telling you sins have to get smarter.
::There's not enough non-assassins. Saw a WoH monk looking for physway. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 23:17, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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::Stop blaming it on individual professions, not every rit or e/mo is good and not every sin is bad and vice versa. Just stop being dumb and saying 'if your a sin your bad and if your not your good'--[[User:Oskar|<font color="black">Oskar</font>]] 00:52, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
:::Needs more ER. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 23:54, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
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:::It was a valid generalisation, and I have come to the same conclusion. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:55, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
::::ERs will appear eventually. People will l2p this setup too so that they never fail. It just takes time to swap from your normal SC way of doing things I think. ;p I will be kinda glad if things will be done in such a cool way now tbh. :3 --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:13, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
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:::: I once failed at 4h, because even though we killed all horsemen, the reaper wasn't invulnerable, is that a bug/glitch? he still had aggro from the dryders though.
:::::I'll start doing ER then. :3 Just need a few skills and lots of tomes. Level 20 already. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 06:09, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::I don't think it's a bug; but the Reaper does seem to need an "In the Area" clearing of safe land before disappearing from the party. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 13:02, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
::::::Yeah it's a good time to start ERing now. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 09:27, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::I'd recommend you learn to run ER in physway teams in either NM or some HM dungeons. That's how I got into it. A shit load of Dungeons. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
== Melee variants... ==
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== Please Sins ==
   
Aren't needed.
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This Build is very good and very fast...but there is just a little problem with sins... Please write that the sins don't have to run away everytime....today i try this with 3 teams...always have a sin running on right, another running on left...i go totally crazy. After ER1 died, and ping that he have only 4 mana, so he can't bond...but the sin don't wait and go against other enemy... no one take a scroll of resurrection. Sin don't have any idea of the ER's job....maybe thay think it's just like a terraway...but isn't. So please read how to use this team-build. I'm very tired of people that are only good to say "run run run" or "bond bond bond". Ty^^
   
If you're experienced enough to know that most melee builds can substitute for the assassins then you don't need a guide to tell you that.
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:Do it yourself, anybody can edit the build page.--[[User:Oskar|<font color="black">Oskar</font>]] 23:50, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
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::Yes, just put something like "Don't over-extend from the ERs" After all, we're not monks with Party-Wide heals. And I think I put that on the page already, but people don't understand mechanics. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 00:07, July 4, 2010 (UTC)
  +
  +
== dth ==
  +
[http://img37.imageshack.us/i/gw006s.jpg/ Are so Fucking Pro][[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 19:26, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:you are sooo cool dude we posted that just so people can see it can be done in under an hour. But k w/e bash us more kthxbai --[[User:INS0MNI4|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">INS0MNI4</font></b>]]
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It's Guild Wars, all of you, grow the fuck up. --[[User talk:The Short One|<font color="black"><b>''Short''</b></font>]] 20:10, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:gilworzzzzzzzzzz--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue"><small>D</small>igit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue"><small>Q</small>u33r</font></b>]] 20:11, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::lol, okay sure w/e you are telling us to grow up after he removed the screenshot from the "Build" tab and then decided to post ours here in a asshole manner. --[[User:INS0MNI4|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">INS0MNI4</font></b>]]
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:::I saw that one, one hour ago. Pretty pro. But terraway still beats this team build, compared to DLway too for 30 minute runs. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 20:14, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::::I thought Physway wasn't build for speed. --[[File:Samsig.png]] 20:30, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::lol, there have been questions posted here about speed and regardless people need a reason to run such a build. Both terraway and DLway are faster than Physway, yes. But both require experience and fail a lot more with pugs, while physway is puggable. We were just showing the GW community that under an hour is possible.--[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 21:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::::::So this is with pugs?--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 23:08, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::Nope but all the strategies follow the guide so it could be. the only reason we posted the screenshot is to show it can be done in under an hour without splits--[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 23:33, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::::::::k gfy ^^--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 23:40, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::::::lol?--[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 23:47, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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:lol, the maturity level of some of these posters is such a joke. We posted a screen shot to show people that it can be done in under an hour as it was asked in an earlier discussion topic. Minion decided to remove it and post it here with in a Douche Bagish manner. Lets get one thing clear we aren't fucking posting this to say we are better than everyone else, we only posted this to show everyone else it can be done in under an hour.--[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 23:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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::Then post it again with a less epeen manner. You know what I mean. But if people really want to find out if such a time is achievable, they'd check the talk page. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 00:28, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:::Lol please tell me how we posted it with an epeen manner,because we said "[dth] record". We said that because it was the best time we've gotten so far, and clearly the best time you've seen so far, after seeing what you wrote... "Well, the fastest you'll probably be able to do without further splitting from the guide is about 1:25. That's no deaths, clean kills, no talking...etc. " .. And also looking through some other pvxwiki posts, there are quite a bit of screen shots showing possible times achieved by using x build. And again "If you want to show off your fast run, then post it on the Talk Page. mawr0n" You misunderstood why we posted it and so the 2nd time i even removed the word "record" and posted it saying "UW Physway 57min dth", yet you removed it again with an asshole comment as your justification, so who is the one with the epeen? Just because somehow we achieved a great time, followed the guide none the less and proved your whole idea wrong about times being achieved without splits doesn't mean you have to sit there and bash us. --[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 00:42, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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::::*[http://img37.imageshack.us/f/gw006s.jpg/ 57min UW Physway dth record] That is what I removed. It is an impressive time, if you really did not split. Although having had been on a run with you, I know you used Speedclear tactics to finish on Dhuum. Although I am suspicious as to why there is an A/P in the screenshot. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 00:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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::im almost positive i removed the word record from that but sure w/e. We kill dhuum with someone encasing, and everyone spamming rest with a Rit and the EMos still alive. I do recall being told [XIII] were being assholes on a run with us and telling us how it should be done and how some of the things we did are slower and giving there own opinions on how it should be done. Theres an AP there because we were testing out "Cant Touch This" to prevent blind during the mountain part, but its meh and not really worth it because it didn't make mountain any faster. And also if you've been on a run with us you should know we dont split. We have tried it and it was risky with a couple deaths and haven't tried it since then since the time saved wasn't worth it to us and you can't "c-space" as much. So again we really dont do this any different from the guide you have posted.[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 01:06, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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uw is srs bsns!--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 02:07, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:::Well, nice to know the guide is effective. You might want to add the extra split you do in UWG, though. [[User:Minion|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]] 06:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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::::Dear dth, I play with your guys often in SC you are good players but nobody cares...move on. PS: Physway was never designed to be a speedclear so using SC tactics corrupts the purpose of the build. Or if that's not perfectly clear; you can't call it physway if you are using SC tactics and splitting and then lying about it, get it? [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 17:24, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
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:::::lol, believe it or not i dont think we care anymore have fun. --[[User:INS0MN1A|<font color="MidnightBlue">'''INS0MNI4'''</font>]] [[User talk:INS0MN1A|''<font color="MidnightBlue"></font>'']] 19:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
   
If you aren't experienced enough to know this, you should probably stick to the ideal builds.
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I have insurance with AARP and they say IM PRO - NIM DAE!
 
At the most, it should be noted that some of the sins can be replaced with any good melee build [insert link to all working pve builds].
 
 
Moreover, I would never bring a dagger warrior over 100b/ES/Scythe. Just because a build "works" doesn't mean it should be listed (should we add Dagger Paragon, Dagger Ele, 100b Sin?...fuck no).
 
 
Things I would add to build:
 
 
:1) AP-MoP substitute over the Rit for experienced/non-lazy teams.
 
:2) 2x 100b warriors for 2 sins.
 
:3) Pictures...bitches love pictures.
 
--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 20:14, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:All of the above plus WE daggers is shit, stop messing around on the build page. If you insist on running a physical variant run a real build like 100b or WE scythe. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 20:28, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
Additionally, it should be added that the Orders necro needs to get close and draw as many hexes/rupts/aggro in dangerous areas to keep the ER's safer (e.g. Mindblades).
 
 
Also, I'm noticing that PUGs are using full consets instead of just essence. Soon they are gonna start complaining about costs so I recommend one of you put glitter and shiny shit around "ONLY REQUIRES ESSENCE" (and anything else important).
 
 
Now someone make all these changes to unfuck the build.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 23:40, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
:Why would you want to turn it into a Manlyway spike? =/ It will completely destroy the theme of the build. Besides, current setup is solid enough people should just stop being dumb and listen. For example if people would listen to Minion at 4H and fought the horses in a less confined space, we wouldnt of failed. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:19, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::The MoP/Sin/Rit Optional slot is fine; If someone can build this for me that'd be good. The 100blades idea is bad, though. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:23, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::100b>all--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 00:31, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
 
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2cwlg8h&s=6 we have 2 dagger rangers 1 dagger warrior and a war scythe 1 OoP weaken armor nec one UA 1bonder 1 SoS with only SoS and blood song wtf do you need 7 spirits for? for those that say non sins are fail? STR??? every heard of it. btw 2 E/mos ??? waste of space UA with vigor spirit and seed works just as well if not better since you have a relieable healing / res. ER get stripped oh shoot i cant infuse wtf we gunna die!!!
 
 
 
Add me to the list of those looking for more info about what you're doing. Obviously, there's room to mix and max physicals, and scythewar is a superb build as always. Sounds like you're experienced; I'm surprised you would have any issues getting stripped or having deaths with dual ER... especially now that 4HW and Wastes are easymode. What's your monk carrying?[[Special:Contributions/66.223.205.33|66.223.205.33]] 20:30, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Cool. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 15:19, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Well, to get that time, you have applied some SC tactics, removing Shadowform from the mix. I never said anything other than sins would be bad, but they do deal the most DPS out of all the physicals out there. Using OoP over OoV would probably be too risky in PUGs, but it's an extra 20 damage per hit compared to OoV. I've never really experimented with the SoS spammer's build. UA and Secondary ER are very much interchangeable in terms of role. You should explain what you do differently with your Usage compared to the guide, so we can see where the time starts to slip away. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 17:05, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Cool story bro, you got a lower time with a completely different build. Post that time with this build and somebody might actually give a shit. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 19:04, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Their build works on the same principle, in fact it's almost the same. This can be run with other kind of physicals as well. The guys on the screenie, as Minion told me are from Onyx guild that are part of ToA ally. That means very expirienced SC team where people know what they are doing, unlike most people Minion runs with (no offense, I know they lag ;p). That guy just proved Physway is more than viable so don't be hating him. Also, I was right saying that with non-retarded players Physway can clear UW in about an hour or less but with far less hassle than SC. :3 --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 19:43, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::First off pull your head out of his ass. Second the builds have next to nothing in common. They ran a bunch of physicals with a slapped together backline and a hackneyed ER ele...whoop de doo so did mobway. For the one millionth time physway is not an SC build, it's apples and oranges to compare the two. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 21:15, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::You must be autistic. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 21:37, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::I forgot Igor, you came on a half-run with us and now you are the master of all things Physway. You're right of course, those of us who have been playing it for months compared to your mere days will pipe down now. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 21:45, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::u mad? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:16, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::Igor; we don't need you to tell us who is a good and bad player. Give us input when you have an idea, of course. But let us get on with what we're doing, and stop throwing around blame, and trying to make me sound like a deity. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 22:23, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::I don't like that IP person. He sounds autistic. I'm on his side with this build and yet he flames me for some reason. Makes no sense. Also, I'm not making a diety out of you, but you are good and I see nothing wrong with appreciating people I like. :o --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:12, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::Well Tom and I know him, and believe me he isn't autistic. The guy knows this run like the back of his hand.14:16,[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:16, June 10, 2010 (UTC) June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::::He acts like he is. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:24, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Need ==
 
 
One more 5-5-Tick vote to get this back into Great gogo! --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 22:59, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
Are you guys interested in teaching some peeps or rather 1 person somewhat be a guide so to speak.
 
i have done a few runs with a couple of you peeps and know this myself but not a teacher my guild is very interested in learning if any of you would like to learn them.
 
IGN-Lord valvoga
 
:Prot...enchant....spam Infuse....any questions?---[[User talk:Xtreme1ne|<font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:Book Antiqua;">'''X'''</span></font>]]<font color="#696969"><small>TREME</small></font> 23:25, June 8, 2010 (UTC)
 
:^ What he said. Doesn't take allot to learn. Just maintain enchants, spam and don't be retarded. You should probably ask Minion for more details but as far as I can see all depends on how well you listen to the most expirienced guy. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:16, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Heh, thanks, but I'd have to point out this team is all down to Elnore Varda, though he seldom plays anymore. Learned alot from him, who I'd say is one of the best PvE players out there. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:21, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Can't vote, my vote was deleted, have to wait a few days :( <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 06:11, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== To the people who hate the build ==
 
 
Just because your group failed on the first day people started doing it does not mean it doesn't work. I find that being able to get far in Physway depends on your group's experience with Physway and build experience, though more than half of it depends on knowing what to do. So stop complaining and trolling and keep trying, eventually you will get further than you did before. In about a week or so Physway groups will seldom fail like almost every speed out there. Nialiss 11:03, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
I tried running with two different PUGs to see how they'd do. First time the other ER disconnected; second, we made it past 4HW with a ER who had absolutely no idea what he was even doing.. only to have the party kamikaze itself on the way to Pools. I'm talking people running in random directions and gathering up half the aggro in Plains and the stuff in Pools at the same time. If we could make it that far, anyone can.[[Special:Contributions/66.223.205.33|66.223.205.33]] 20:37, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:I did it with a French guild and they did well on everything except 4h. Failed with full cons and normal mode. Other pugs far worse. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 21:20, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Aaah the French.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 21:23, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Frenchies srs bsns. I like them though, they are sweet. :3 --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:06, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== lolol ==
 
 
We even got vandals now. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:30, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
:lal--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digital</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Fear</font></b>]] 12:00, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Dramatic ==
 
 
changes everyday. :O <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 09:00, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Yup. OoP > OoV ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 10:15, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Changing slowly, but keeping the same "organised kilroy" aspect. Someone needs to add optional Physicals in the corner somewhere; Wars can run Enduring Scythe without AoHM, 100lolz, Earthshaker, etc. Rangers have barrage, scythe or dagger. Paragon... Suck. Dervs with Zeaous Vow attack spamming (ahgain without AoHM). If someone wants to list these and maybe put them on an alternate page with a link? [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 10:22, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Maybe just make an optional nightmare then list a few example physical builds? ;p Oh and another thing, I think GDW would be better on the rit and a backup one on the nec so that it doesn't distract the ERs. Thoughts? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 10:37, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::No; no one can spam Great Dwarf Weapon as well as the ERs; they can maintain 4 copies each if they spammed it on recharge. You're still thinking with your "SC emo" cap on. ERs can do alot more than spam infuse and Maintain PB.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 11:27, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Re-read my above comment. ;p I'm not talking about how well they can spam GDW, it just distracts them from doing other things. No real point doing that tbh. You have a Necro and a Rit who can potentially take it too, rit has spawning powarz to extend it's duration bit too. Also, wats SC emo? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:32, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::I know what you mean, but in reality it won't really work. The OoP doesn't have the energy as it's maintaining 4~copies of SoH, spamming OoP, Blood Bond and hex removals. The Rit doesn't even have energy management as it is, and they have to be economical already. People should learn to use the Cancel action; bind it to a mouse-key, so you can trigger it with your thumb or something. If you're casting GDW and someone's dying, stop and heal. It's not distracting; think of it as a powerful protection spell which has a chance to stop foes from retaliating. Also, an "SC emo" is that bonder with nothing but maintainable bonds and Burning Speed. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 11:43, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::What minion said, the nec doesnt have the juice for doin his job, cleaning the phys and THEN maintaining gdw. The rit is cramped and almost riding his regens half the time and cant afford it...and the emos have more energy than god to abuse it on recharge...and i thought cancel casting was simple basic gw skills??, tho i guess todays pve shitters (the discord generation) dont need to learn cancel casting or even where the cancel key is..its escape by default btw :D side button on mouse is a good slot indeed :D *Shrugs..[[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 11:48, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::Necro doesnt have the juice? with CF on and 6+ Soul reaping if you cant maintain Oop DGW on 2 frontlines and SoH on the 4 frontlines your a fail necro or your in a fail team that needs to kill faster, Oop costs 4 energy the rest of your necro skills dont cost jack SoH? 1Xsecond recharge you should gain the energy by then, that leaves you with a FULL energy pool cuase of SR, Minoin you should try the new build before you post it and give advice. [[User:Vivre|<b><font color="green">Vivre</font></b>]]
 
:::::::::I wish I could pug an ER that can cancel cast. Q___Q --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 13:01, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::Give them time, they'll get there. Toms been ERing for almost a year, so he's bound to be more skilled than the rest. Have to remember that these new ERs have only been going for a week tops. Doesn't really help with all the mindless assassins there are running about camping traps, over-extending etc.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:02, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::Right. And this is why we released the "general physway" builds; so people would get into running them in common areas, so ERing becomes easier before going to tougher areas. It got trashed in a week. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 15:14, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::::There are already quite allot of ERs now. It didn't take me allot of time to find them today and they were pretty good. We failed on the way to mountains because people can't run through traps properly and aggroed Charged darknesses on top of that. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:07, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Would the Orders add more than AoHM? Sure, there's no synergy in using both, but if AoHM adds more, why not take it? ...Blood bond? [[User:AegisDok|Dok]] 18:26, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::: Orders makes good synergy with Aohm for the simple fact as it acts as a nice cover + Aohm does more damage if you dont believe me bring your stacked buffs and attack the master of damage outside gtob [[User:Vivre|Vivre]]
 
 
== The Sins ==
 
 
Overall the Bar seems fine but I believe it is missing something, that something being IAU. It would speed up wastes, the later parts of Pools, and Mountains. Could drop SY for it on 2-3 of the sins as 4 copies of SY is too many. I've ran an exact variant of this with only one E/Mo bonding and rarely had a death when a sin or someone got rended, we only had one SY. So overall it should only increase efficiency. [[User:JackdoesSCs|JackdoesSCs]] 17:41, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Wastes is a non-issue, we have never wiped there or struggled to clear it or Pools. The problem in Mountains has more to do with inexperienced sins trap camping than it does knockdown. A more detailed explanation of how the webs operate: When a web is getting ready to cast MS strafe, they will ALWAYS look at their target. They are big and bulky you will see them physically rotate to face you. When they do ditch the MS off to the side. Camping AoE is a beginners trap it should not be happening in high end PvE let alone hard mode. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 18:59, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:: IAU is better period. C space ftfw your frontline should be doing nothing but ganking shit worrying about meatshower or SoJ is stupid,
 
Traps aint jack, throw a infuse once or twice in mnts and you should not have a problem i dont see why mnts is all that hard for people,
 
only place where you might have a problem should be pits becuase of the "preasure they apply" (FoC WoooT) [[User:Vivre|Vivre]]
 
:::Was saying for wastes, unless you kill them before they do SoJ you will knock yourself down every hit, and i wasn't talking about dryders for mountains, Cripple is the reason for IAU in mountains, for my run as E/Mo it slowed us down by maybe a minute with the nec being snared from drawing cripple. Dryders in pools wasn't the problem either, its Whirlwind/Shock from the charged and the attacks from the obsidians near the queen, they KD on hit. [[User:JackdoesSCs|JackdoesSCs]] 20:39, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::CB will never KD your entire frontline, if they do you have bigger problems. Nobody should be getting crippled in Mtn as nobody should be setting off traps unless absolutely necessary! Adding IAU further promotes careless gameplay. If you are too stupid to avoid traps/MS on your sin you should not be playing UW period--it's too advanced for you. Just because you can sit there and eat AoE because of the ERs does not mean you should. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 22:17, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::I'll tell you why people fail in Mountains. It's because they walk into the traps, mindlessly all step into the behmoth booby-trap and strip both ERs of their energy. Whether they started with 89 or 150 energy. And you would have thought after all the fails, someone would have realised where they were going wrong. But they don't realise it until they've put the ER's shoes on. It's ridiculous. What people SHOULD be doing, is having a designated "trap trigger" either the Rit can drop their spirits onto it and run back, or a sin can tank them. Either way, kilroying into them with EVERYONE taking AoE damage causes fucking chaos. Damage limitations would be nice. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 22:25, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::@IP guy, you're insulting me off a basic premise that IAU is better than 4 copies of SY with a bonder. The bonder brings all non-armor ignoring damage to 5% of the persons health. SY gives +100 armor or 82.5% damage reduction that goes before prot bond, which makes it worthless unless getting rended, which doesnt ever happen to the whole party unless the bonders get e-denied asap. Nor did i say the whole team should have IAU to prevent KDs on the charged or MS. The main reason for IAU over tons of copies of SY is for wastes. "if the whole team gets KDd by smites then ur bad and not experienced enuff for UW"... Sitting down for 2 seconds for every time you hit, which is roughly 1 second, if auto attcking. Thats a downtime of 66% when SoJ is up. Anti-Cripple is just a bonus. I am suggesting a great alternative to help speed up a PuG run And if I'm still too bad ill give you a screen of me doing UW+dhuum as a balanced group in an hour 28, one of the first 5 runs for my guild. /rant [[User:JackdoesSCs|JackdoesSCs]] 22:36, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::First off, calm down. Second I have done this more than you so I think I know what I'm talking about. We have not once ever had a problem in pools or wastes EVER. In fact those are the easiest areas to clear besides Vale. If you notice SoJ up go attack another target, it's not rocket science. Just because you are under pbond and backed with SY!/Infuse does not give the sins permission to Leroy around c-spacing. This is not Ursan, you need to use your brain. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 22:45, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::IAU would make the run faster tbh. Sight beyond sight and a wild blow would speed it up as well :o <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 22:48, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::I have NEVER seen a sin get knocked down in Wastes. And I have been running this setup, with minor variations, for almost a year. The fact is that when you are maintaining Great Dwarf Weapon on all the sins, the Smites have NOT A HOPE IN HELL at casting a 1s Smiting enchantment. They will usually die within one knockdown each, and they only cast when they start taking heavy pressure. We have already mentioned before that Wild Blow would be useful in Mountains, this has been acknowledged and is on the variants list and a skill I bring on my runs. At the end of the day, the choice is rather simple: A gimped build for ease of use, or a more powerful build, with more skilled usage.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 22:54, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::there's really no difference--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 22:59, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::[[file:Axe1.jpg]]
 
:::::::::::Srsly menz the fuck you got 4 copies of SY! ? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:24, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::::::I haven't disputed that 4x Save Yourselves! is too much, otherwise I wouldn't have added any variants. We've been running more useful skills like Dodge This! and Wild Blow. Dodge This! constantly adds damage and has a little unblockable bonus when WB is recharging. Wild Blow can also strip Hex Breaker without wasting a hex, but it's meh there. The only place you really need IaU in is in Foundry of Failed Creations, where condition and knockdown spam occurs. I don't like preparing for a specific "brush over" point in a run, just to make it slightly easier. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:00, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
== OotV Vs Oop ==
 
Ootv = cheaper(no need for cultists), life stealing is better than armor ignoring imo
 
Oop = More Spammable(doesnt really matter imo) almost req taking cultist for elite
 
OotV>OoP [[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 01:19, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:OoP does twice as much damage. <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 01:25, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Really? from wiki Oop = Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, whenever a party member hits a foe with physical damage, that party member does +3...13...16 damage. OotV = Elite Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, whenever a party member who is not under the effects of another Necromancer enchantment hits a foe with physical damage, that party member steals up to 3...13...16 Health. where they updated? or is the wiki just wrong? [[user:Giantshark|<font color="lightblue">'''Sharky'''</font>]][[User talk:Giantshark|<font color="red"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 03:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::OoP is affected by Asuran Scan and BUH. <span style="font-family:fantasy;border-top:3px dotted #AAAA99;">[[User:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#AAAAAA;">Life</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Life Guardian|<span style="color:#006699;">Guardian</span>]]</span> 03:04, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::OoV gives extra lifesteal, which comes in the form of a seperate packet, because it's a different type of damage. OoP's added damage is stacked with the rest of your damage buffs, and therefore will be dealing 50+ damage when all your buffs are active. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:41, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::OoP does way more damage because it benefits from BUH and AS. It's also cheaper because of Fervor. OotV is craps. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Physicals ==
 
 
Feel free to add more variants :D '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 09:32, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:I suppose paragon will need one too. Could give them that unblockable anthem elite?[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:52, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
Why did you removed the other physicals variants? I put it there so pugs can finally understand that not only sins can do that job :O .I hope u will feel bad when an W/A will get rejected from a physway team >.< '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 18:58, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:It was removed because they were terrible. If you want physical variants follow the link at the very bottom of the build page. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 21:11, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::actually they were adapted to physway the variants on the link are terrible. Why bringing critical agility when u use BU? that's a waste better bring drunken master '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 21:32, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I hate to break this to you but anything other than a sin running dagger spam is inferior to a sin doing it. No one in our teams has run critscythe since November. We run WotA, ES, ZV scythe, WE scythe and extremely rarely a barrage...that's it. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 00:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::: i wont bother taking up my invite from minion to come frontline as a ranger then when i gets free time! xD [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 00:19, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::What he's trying to say, with boiling blood, is that you don't just need dagger attacks, and giving examples for just dagger chains for different professions is pointless. I'm inclined to agree because it makes the page look messy. If you can make a seperate page and link it, with all the Physical builds you want. Maybe you could make it a "Physical sandbox" and people can add what they like. Then add the link of the sandbox to the Physicals section of the build in this team. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 00:22, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::: Just add some examples for different builds on this page because the usual PvX reader is pretty stupid like in: if a build is not on the page it won't work. I'd also dare to imply those ppl won't bother looking at any external links posted at the bottom. [[Special:Contributions/84.44.143.254|84.44.143.254]] 01:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Combine orders? ==
 
 
Maybe something like this: {{Mini skill bar|Order of the Vampire|Order of Pain|Signet of Lost Souls|Optional|Optional|Optional|Optional|Optional}}
 
<span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 10:05, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Don't be silly.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 10:07, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::^[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 12:08, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::He's from [KISS] what did you expect? ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:03, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::lol, seriously Juze.... u should leave that guild, u will be treated bad by other players... gw racists FTW! xD '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 19:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::The justification that we shouldn't listen to him because he's in KISS is poor; Cuilan was in KISS-- oh, you're right. They do all suck by default ;) [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 19:07, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== ok.... ==
 
 
I jus tested this with alliance and a friend. I was ER1, he was ER2. What we found out is: ER2 needs spammable enchantment (if he needs to tank) and ER1 or Er2 need party heal (like heal party, breath of the great dwarf, idk), because at skeletons it's really dangerous. Also, idk how pugs can do it, but it was hard for us. We failed at plains, because elite on ER2 was interrupted. I guess you still need to do a bit of editing on these builds.--[[User:ValeV|ValeV]] 10:21, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Heal Party is way too slow for an ER to consider taking. Breath of the Great Dwarf has too long a recharge. Feast of Souls looks quite nice on the SoS for AoE heals. As for your failure in Plains; you simply need to run out of the Mindblade's aggro circle to recast ER. While doing that, rely on Blood Bond and Vig Spirit to keep the team alive. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 13:18, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
::Having just completed a successful run, something's very wrong if you're even facing that threat at 4HW. The assassins should just steamroll everything before they're even hurt.[[Special:Contributions/209.112.215.174|209.112.215.174]] 10:52, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Ritualist ==
 
 
[[File:Example.jpg]]
 
if your going to update things you might as well update the rit becuase honestly wtf does it do? maybe try dropping down to 4 spirit
 
 
<pvxbig>
 
[build prof=Rt/? cha=12+1+1 spa=12+1][Signet of Spirits][Bloodsong][Feast of Souls][Ancestors' Rage][Optional][Pain Inverter][Spirit Siphon][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]
 
</pvxbig> optional = Summon spirits/cond removal/ hex removal/another spirit/painful bond
 
:I really like the look of Feast of Souls as a Panic button for quick heals, due to the lack of Party-Wide heals on the ERs. I'd certainly give this a go. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 13:12, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Also better on th energies. ;p --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:01, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Needs earthbind [[User:Klumpeet|Klumpeet]] 16:56, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Why not 100Bs?? ==
 
I was thinking to try a run with 3x 100bs , in this way you save 1 spot , other build dont need huge changes and you can add another different char to heal or do something else..
 
To max damage of 100b , instead Air of Superiority bring "I am the strongest!" and maybe a self heal instead death retreat..Necro just need Add MOP and Ritualist just Splinter weapon (he have a free spot for skills =) )..With GDW all deal +20 dam + KD,+15 damage from SoH, +20 damage from I am the strongest, +17 (or more) damage from OoP and damage from MOP+Splinter, and dont forget damage from 100b and whirlwind (+ normal attack damage)..this is a lot of damage IMO, and no need chains...
 
Plus, warrior have a large ammount of AL and make them more harder to kill...and for those dont like warrior,they can use Sin too... [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 11:02, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
:To be honest, Why 100bs? all of your damage comes from MoP, what if you have 3 100bs that dont follow pinged target, the mob with MoP breaks aggro or any other number of dumb things, you lose your damage 100bs doesnt do a lot of damage to one target honestly good idea and i believe minion and his group put a statment about this on GWG if you wish to check it out [[User:Vivre|Vivre]]
 
 
::mmm no..not all damage come from mop sorry,also from all other skills and from 100b...1x spike with 3x 100b is enough to kill every thing in game...maybe with a single target is hard,btw with "I am the strongest" + hammer + SoH and other each warrior can do a damage of about 14...20 + 15...20 + 5...25 + base damage that is 34...65 damage per hit, X3 warriors..all without 100b+mop+splinter+OoP+Wirlwind...IMO a group of 3/4 aatxe die in few seconds... [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 11:22, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
:: Sins Jagged strike which adds NO additional damage does 60damage with buffs on. + faster attack speed becuase of skills, with AoE=death blossom. yeah 100b+ MoP is great damage but honestly you cant say mop will land every target properly without hitch that the 100b'er can reach or are close enuf to hit the other mobs. as i said good idea but has no single target damage +aoe, also you will always find a fail mop 3/4 of the time [[User:Vivre|Vivre]]
 
::: w8 a sec,we cant speak about fail people..people who cant do their job well fail with this build too..btw warriors deal 93 damage per Hit on single target + damage to all from mop / splinter / 100b weapon that are ~11 (100b) + 30 (Mop with curse=10) + 50 (Splinter with chaneling=15)+ ~11 (Wirlwind rank 7) that mean 93 damage to single target + 100 more damage to all adjacent foes. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 12:21, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::We have tested the team with a variety of physical builds, including Hundred Blades and a MoP. We found the damage and speed of the run to be lacking even more so compared to a bunch of quick-dagger attacks. Things don't always ball, and things aren't always in huge numbers. Also, people don't always target calls. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 13:16, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::: dunno what say, i have tested it with 2x 100b some months ago and was very fast,good damage...btw if mop dont call thats dont mean the build dont work..as i said,bad people are bad with all build of Pxv. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 13:26, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::It's not a manly spike kthnx.--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 13:56, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::: but can be,by only change the spikers and 1/2 skills on rest of team..imo is faster and safe. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:29, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::daggers > 100b when your <s>not</s> running free agro without a dedicated tank. Its basically an organised zergway/c+space/ursan 2k10..its more robust, less rigid, less reliant on ball'n'nuke and doest fall apart when mop is removed, when calls missed, or when agro is broken, the usual culprits for scfail. Physway is the antithesis to manlyway and to speed clears, and really doesnt need to be changed into or pushed towards that (manly way has its own pages and variations already! that are top notch for that) This fills a large gap for people who dislike the rigid soloing and heavy splits/party solo style of sc's who want a more involved intra-team experience thats more inline with a 'classic' gw party. plus this is fun as hell! xD Manlyway is epic at what it does, not to take away from that btw. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 15:09, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::: My was jus an idea, btw imo warriors have a better resistance than sin for damage ad i said, a warrior with all that can deal a damage of 90 on each attack..I dont understand where are the hard part for a 100b to press T, 1-2-3 ?For me np, i have paragon - warr - sin, so i can run everything,so i dont speaking to force other run 100b...and i must add,that i tried to run FoW builds on UW, and it work quite good...yes,aatxe make physical hits a problem but with some heal its not a big problem, and fow-system is maked to bring down a large amout of mobs in few hits/seconds.
 
For the rest nothing more to add, i just load one of those bar and play. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 15:19, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
What Vivre said. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 21:33, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
: bha... [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 11:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== What about scythe spammers? ==
 
 
Scythe=more damage :P and is also AoE, one wounding spammer would speed up the run a bit. '''>{<u>[[User:CaRnyVaL|<b><font color="Black">CaRnyVaL</font></b>]]</u>}™''' [[Image:Primal Rage.jpg|22px]] 14:00, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Scythe works fine, great on skeles and in Pits. But they dont gain extra damage from OoP or OotV, atleast in the ToA/meh variant because they bring AohM. [[User:JackdoesSCs|JackdoesSCs]] 14:20, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Scythe=less damage. zzz--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 14:22, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::the only way to make scythes viable is to drop Aohm and take EBSoh, the numbers are a little lower, but when it affects the team too, its actually better (math on guru somewere, cant be arsed to grab link) and DOESNT cause anti synergy with the phys buffs. Daggers are preferable, but scythes are most deffo viable (all be it not as optimal as dagger) if skilled up to synergise. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 15:50, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::We often run a ZV scythe spammer without AoHM, because faguildie has no option but to play derv :p[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 16:37, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Loves manskirts*--[[User:Digitalfear|<b><font color="MidnightBlue">Digit0l</font></b>]][[File:Digitalfear_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Digitalfear|<b><font color="SteelBlue">Qu33r</font></b>]] 18:59, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== SS Rits ==
 
 
Spirit's Strength Rits could prolly do the job better, they still using daggers! -Phil
 
:Like I said; add them to a page. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 10:06, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Dying nightmares ripping your SS =/ --[[File:Samsig.png]] 10:40, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::If you get stripped you should probably GTFO out anyways since you lose your bonds and strength of honor. Basically getting stripped sucks no matter what. --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 11:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::But it sucks less to be a stripped Sin than a stripped Rit. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
They won't have sustained damage like sins (energy) and less IAS.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 08:57, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
:also no SY! --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 09:30, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Use "I am the Strongest" instead BUH ==
 
Imo is 10000000 time better, 2 pipes of energy dont worth keep it because :
 
Asuran scan is calculate AFTER other bonus damage from buffs/skills, this mean Base damage + Skill damage + IAtS then Asura scan Increase all!(here you can check=http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Asuran_Scan).
 
Now lets suppose just to work on base damage + 20% and 15^50 from weapon that mean = (7-17 +20%+15%+25%)+75%= 19.6 - 47.6 damage,with an average damage of 33.6 damage per attack (Without calculate armor) and VS Aatxe Al=105 mean ~15.4056 damage per attack.
 
With skill this damage is higher,sure...but lets see what happens with asura scan + IAtS(RANK 1).
 
base damage (7-17 + 20% + 15% + 14 (IAtS R1)) + 75% = 41.0375 - 64.6625 with an aevrage damage per attack = 52.85 that VS Aatxe mean 24.23.
 
Lets compare, Asuran Scan + BUH = ~15 damage per attack on Aatxe, Asuran Scan + IAtS = ~24 damage(Rank 1 Norn).
 
So It is better use I am the Strongst OVER BUH..If not belive test it by yourself on Isle of the nameless Vs Armor 100 training. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 12:09, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Only thing ur forgetting is that BUH increases your AoE damage --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 12:24, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Ehmmmm so? IAts affect AoE too.. [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 12:39, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::No it doesn't. It effects attacks, not the AoE bonus damage from death blossom. --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 12:41, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::: Just tested,true...Btw +10 damage from AoE dont worth +9 damage (Rank 1 Norm) from each attack of chains,incuded Death Blossom that mean +9+9+9 on that target with Rank1..IMO..[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 12:49, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::: Buh is easily 100% maintainable with 2 emo's and spirits that are often at sub 50% health.. and a IatS runs out after like 6 attacks. yes you can pre cast it then once per encounter but buh is better all round and easy to maintain with the team... [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 13:16, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Sure,true that too..btw with IAtS rank 10 Norn,we have more damage on single target..maybe over +13-15 damage on each attack..you loose +10 damage AoE but you gain +x each attack,that is faster..and work on normal attacks too.[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 13:23, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Also, consider how many foes you are hitting with death blossom. It can be alot at times. --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 13:25, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::: but each take only +10 damage extra,even if you hit 2000 mobs,they get 50 damage instead 40..with IAtS you deal -10 damage on all foes with AoE but you deal for 8x attacks +9...+x(need calculate it with rank10) damage on each attack with or without skills,and damage from IAtS is added after damage calculation,that mean +x +14..20 always =) [[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 13:30, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't BUH! also buff your damage from your attacks on your target also? Sounds like you have found that vs a single target IatS is only slightly better, but when you factor in BUH's health regen and it's AoE buff, it appears to be superior. Also, you are failing to account for the fact that death blossom is a dual attack and performs its bonus damage twice, meaning BUH increases its damage by 20. If you hit 5 foes with DB, that's 100 damage right there.
 
::::::::you dont even get two full chains out of 1 shout of iats.. jag, ff, blossom, blossom,jag, ff....runs out. All the while BUH is STILL up and affecting the blossom burst and been added multiplicativly(sp? lol) with asuran scan even at base duration, not been increased. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 13:42, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::: With rank 10 you can do 8x attacks with +20 extra damage. It have 20 sec of recharge so it isnt hard keep it up.[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:08, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::::: We've done the numbers with an R10 sin. It turned out that IATS did show a slightly higher DPS than BuH, but that isn't factoring the extra 25% on aoe attacks that BuH gives. I should add that this test was will ALL buffs up.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:12, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
The only thing that IAtS have less than BUH is the Hp regen and 25% more AOE Damagem that in number is +10 on Death Blossom (daggers=12),for the rest each attack have a good extra damage.[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Correction, +20 on db. --<font face="Poor Richard">[[User talk:Smity|<font color="Black">Smity</font> the <font color="black">Smith</font>]]</font> 14:22, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:: Especially now SoS is back in the team, and with ERs infusing, you're very likely to have BuH last longer than the initial 6-10s.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:24, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Sorry but 25% of 40 is 10 not 20 :\ .[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:29, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::: I believe hes reffering to the fact that dual attacks hit twice[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 14:30, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::: oh ok ok then...then need specificate it because +20 +20 is +40, not +20 ;)..Btw i forget to say that +25% affect all kind of damage,base one and from skills but its not ignoring-armor damage..it just stack with all but then need pass trought Foes Armor..IAtS simply is calculated after damage..for example if you have rank 10,you deal 20+x damage...with BUH! you do x damage + 25% THEN you need apply AL modificator[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:34, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
Now, we need choose between 2 thing, i have calculated all this time(all numbers are rounded) :
 
1)Asuran Scan + BUH = 20 - 48 / average 34 dam per attack / average 16 dam on Aatxe , +2 health pips and +10 (*2) extra AoE damage From Blossom
 
2)Asuran Scan + IAtS = 55 - 82 / average 69 dam per attack / average 32 dam on Aatxe , -2 health pips and -10 (*2) extra AoE damage from Blossom, BUT Extra damage on single target x4 times (chain + DB (that is Dual attack).
 
you justa have to choose now.[[User:Light Athena|Light Athena]] 14:57, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Your calculations are lacking SoH/OoP and GDW buffs.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 15:05, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Let's just try this instead. In a controlled totally ideal environment the chain by itself was ~76DPS. Chain with Ascan was ~117DPS, chain with Ascan/BUH was ~127 while Ascan/IatS was ~134. This is in a situation where you have no blocking, no kiting and it doesn't factor in AoE at all. IatS does NOT modify the AoE or additional bonuses from SoH/OoP while BUH does. If you include all other damage sources BUH will win every single time. [[Special:Contributions/71.56.32.112|71.56.32.112]] 15:13, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::sidenote: surely someone should bring a copy of EbSoh, for the aoe team buffing affect, that affects every packet or non armour ignoring damage. and Iats is a MASSIVE 8dps boost! unless you precast it then you get a boost to 16 dps, that drops back to 8dps(at rank 10) BUH doesnt have down time VERY frequently and affects all your damage sources...pretty much a no brainer.. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 15:20, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
SY! calculates damage reduction before PB does amirite? --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:16, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
Why does ER1 maintain 6 and ER2 4
 
:It doesn't. They both maintain 4. BuH>IATS, because it's simply extra damage. Like OoV without the lifesteal. BuH multiplies everything you've already got, and has a much better uptime when spirits take damage and ERs infuse spam.[[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 18:02, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::ER1 does maintain 6 enchs, 4* Prot Bond + 2* LA.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 20:37, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Why not take BUH and IATS in place of SY!? ;o --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 23:00, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
rw :)--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 21:42, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:2 copies of SY is enough for pretty much anything you will face :D one sin(or phys with enough energy)should drop SY for EBsoh. and the other could happily take anything in place of SY, tho death charge is recommended in notes. The reason that IATS isnt taken as well is a lack of space an an already cramped bars and skills that already have better effect. [[User:Jayson Rayne|<font color="ForestGreen">'''''Jayson'''''</font>]][[User talk:Jayson Rayne|<font color="Black">'''''MaxxFury'''''</font>]] 00:57, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::IATS is amazing with BUH and SA because it makes you deal like 40 more domags with your next 8 attacks. Strong domagz are strong. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 09:51, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
hi. can everyone stop being bad now? Just take 1 or 2 copies of ebsoh and you can effectively have your cake and eat it. It's criminal it isn't in one of the bars already. [[Special:Contributions/94.136.50.63|94.136.50.63]] 17:18, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== variants ==
 
some of the better variants need to be on the main page right below the sins. People are retarded. They think the wota sins are the only things that work and no one bothers following the link to guru. [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 03:32, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
: thank you for writing the same shit i wrote yesterday again cuz you didn't ever try to look if someone already wrote it [[Special:Contributions/78.34.235.93|78.34.235.93]] 03:55, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::well it seems like no one listened so i figured id post it again [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 04:10, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::It just makes the page look ugly with all the variants. AMG OPTIONALS NIGHTMARE!!1 Er. It's either seperate page/sandbox/userpage with the builds or none at all. Don't want to get messy, and sins are still optimal. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 09:09, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::I dont see how adding a couple mini skill bars below the sins would make the page any messier [[User:Notorious BW|Notorious BW]] 14:42, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
 
On the bottom of the assassin section mention that any good melee builds can be used and add the Guru link again labeled as "Other viable melee builds". Simple solution until a PvX list is consolidated.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 22:46, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Now this is retarded. ==
 
 
SoS has Remove Hex, Earthbind is gone, Feast of Souls like Terra/Expway, Pain Inverter only for Dhuum. Also, sin variants got deleted and this all is crap now. Just my opinion. And we want SS rits. ;) <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 17:45, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Before you revert, ASK why these changes were made. Don't revert until you know it's not as effective. I don't give a shit if Feast of Souls is in Terraway. Does that mean it can't be used anywhere else or in general play? Don't talk rubbish. [[User:Excluded|<b><font color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 18:35, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Remove Hex is bad, already have two hex removals on necro, every run still uses the old Earthbind rit, there is enough heal on ERs, Painful Bond could be replaced for Pain Inverter for better effect but Earthbind is a must, mkay? I forgot to tell something because I'm going to bed. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 18:49, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Retarded like yourself? Just asking. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 19:05, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Yet another useless comment from Igor, gg on that. Ebind really has to be taken on Rt Imo. Also just did a run with PI, didn't speed Dhuum up that much really...[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 22:31, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::There should really be a couple optional slots unless any of those skills are vital for completing uw--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 23:26, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Yet another butthurt comment from Roarer. It's PvX, get used to it. Also, I was actually asking a question if it's so hard notice. <!---P.S: Cry moar.----> --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 00:28, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::Whats the point of pain inverter if your dhuum's rest is going up at the same pace as it was before? -Phil
 
::::::The point of Pain Inverter is that the pure dmg of the skill with dhuum's judgment that it will overide the dmg deduction of his 90% skill.
 
:What I forgot to say is that if some build changes dramatically, move it back to trial. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 07:02, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::It's not that dramatic. The SoS's main purpose to is take pressure off the rest of the team.--[[User:Arrogant Bastard|<b><font color="Red">Arrogant</font></b>]][[File:Arrogant_Bastard_Sig.jpg|19px]][[User_talk:Arrogant_Bastard|<b><font color="black">Bastard</font></b>]] 08:51, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::^ --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 11:42, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::lal. Remove Hex isnt needed on SoS, Remove + Smite are plenty on the OoP. Also, DC>FF.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 13:46, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== WotA vs Imbasin ==
 
 
Read the image summary. >:( [[File:WotA-Not-Imba.jpg|50px]] <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 15:21, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Small enough for you? <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 15:21, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Yes; I was the one who CHANGED them to being called "WotA sins" because "Imbasin" sounded fucking retarded. [[User:Excluded|<b><font
 
color="green">Minion</font></b>]][[File:Minion_sig_k_bish.jpg|19px]][[Special:Contributions/Excluded|<font color="black">Excluded</font>]] 16:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::d00d, you're just sitting on your front porch watching your lawn with a shotgun and onion on your belt yelling at that "hippity hop rock music" [[Special:Contributions/66.223.205.33|66.223.205.33]] 20:06, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::I always see them being called Imbasins. It does sound retarded though. --[[User:Myotheraccount|<font color="HotPink">Iggy]] 's other account</font> 16:28, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Thank you for your opinion. [[User:Cuilan|Cuilan]] 18:22, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::: I got this cool name. Took me a bit to come up with it: Sin Spikers. Now, I know this may sound kind of ground breaking and everyone might not be comfortable with the complicated wording, however, I personally believe it is quite imaginative and possibly a game changer. [[User:Docta Jenkins|Docta Jenkins]] 04:29, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::Agreed. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 06:37, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::::Terrible name for a terrible build. It fits perfectly ^^--[[User:Relyk|<font color="darkblue">'''Relyk'''</font>]] [[User talk:Relyk|<font color="blue"><sub>talk</sub></font>]] 07:58, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::::It really doesn't matter what you call them.[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 10:50, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Survivor vs Radiant ==
 
 
Imo, there is no need for extra energy, the line says "or preferred insignias", survivor is better when your bonds are also down. Good game. <span style="font-family: Matisse ITC; font-size;12px;">[[User:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''Ju'''</font>]][[User talk:Juze|<font color="Blue">'''ze'''</font>]]</span> [[File:JuzeAvatar.jpg|19px]] 06:42, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Let's assume people aren't shitty, and can manage without that, what, +40hp? --'''<span style="font-family:Lithos Pro Regular;">[[User:Chaos Messenger|<font color="goldenrod">DANDY]] [[User_talk:Chaos|^_^]]''' </font></span>-- 06:46, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 
::We talking for the ER's here?[[User:Roarer|Roarer]] 10:51, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 01:35, July 8, 2010

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Archives


Archive 1

Srsly menz. Edit

Wtf with the silly SoS Rit? Terrible bar is terrible. =/ --Iggy 's other account 11:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

And now terrible runes? You can't give anything two major + superior rune=dead soon kk.MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 11:48, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't add them. Juze did. I fixed them to minors and you reverted back to double majors so I thought you wanted double majors Zzz. Anyway, what sense does it make to take a lvl7 offensive spirit? It will die in one hit from anything. --Iggy 's other account 12:23, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Higher spawning is prefered because it gives the spirits more health - so they can be hit + remain alive [ and more chance of being under 50% for BuH! buff ] rather than spirit damage.. which is pitiful compared to the physicals. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 13:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Fixed again. xD Juze JuzeAvatar 14:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Oh and terrible template usage: You made the build use 201/200 attribute points. You're terrible yourself. Good game. Juze JuzeAvatar 14:44, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
lvl13 spirit at 11 spawning > lvl12 spirit at 12 spawning. You are clueless. Also, don't go calling people terrible when you are a [KISS] shitter. :S --Iggy 's other account 14:46, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with igor. Docta Jenkins 20:56, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Such a big deal unbalancing: 26 vs 25 dmg, +20 health vs +5 armor. It's much better now, get over it. Juze JuzeAvatar 08:02, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's not and you are retarded. --Iggy 's other account 10:13, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Imbafaggotnames Edit

I vote that the next person to change the name is banned. Following edits should have bans as well. This is retarded bullshit. Pick a name and leave it there. Docta Jenkins 01:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Quoted by Excluded: "Yes; I was the one who CHANGED them to being called "WotA sins" because "Imbasin" sounded fucking retarded.". So screw the imbasin name, sin without SY is no imba. Call them spikers, WotA or just sins/assassins. But really, I see Imbasin again which is like so retarded. Juze JuzeAvatar 07:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
What's more retarded people still keep getting into revert wars over something so irrelevant. Who cares how the build is called? --Iggy 's other account 10:18, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
PVX PEOPLE DO BUILD NAMES ARE SRS BSNS--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 12:31, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
SENSE NONE MAKE COMMENT YOURS. --Iggy 's other account 14:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I can't really see how such trivial shit even requires a section. "Imbasin(s)" isn't descriptive to the least, and there's no correlation to the automatic association of imbagons and SY. Anyone who calls Jagged-Fox-Blossom a spike should also just uninstall the game for not knowing the difference between pressure and a spike. "WotA sins" is simple and descriptive, cut the custom names shit out. --DANDY ^_^ -- 14:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Okay this trivial bullshit has gone on too long (it's also in the archive, Chaos). It was some IP who reverted 9 times before being blocked. I'm expecting them to be left as WotA assassins and have left a note at the bottom of the page saying they're sometimes called imbasins (because i have actually seen them called this in game). If I hear any more about this, whoever brings it up will be silenced accordingly. AthrunAthrun dotFeya 21:58, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I like Lau's new sig. Life Guardian 00:32, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I like Lau in general. Docta Jenkins 05:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I do too, but she needs to make the dots have a transparent background, wow. Brandnew 08:45, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

WTF... Edit

How the fuck did this trash become the meta... aside from the fact that all the failer sins can now do UW. This is a fucking joke you can take any team with 2 EMo's (rofl at ER1 and ER2 they are just 2 terrible EMo bars) and finish UW you can take 4 fucking Beast Mastery rangers and finish... --Risus 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

PUG friendly is why it's meta tbh. I wouldn't get to pent up about it. --Short 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Im guessing your ER bars consist of Burning Speed spam. lal. Roarer 17:44, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I'm guessing I don't play GW anymore? --Short 17:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I was talking to Risus.Roarer 17:46, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Lolol. Sorry, indenting made me lolwut. --Short 17:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
ubad. cba to make this comment more constructive, not worth my time. --Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 18:25, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah as was kind of pointed out already, the build with the best possible Efficiency/Skill (Effort) rate becomes meta, not the one with the highest efficiency rate. In English, 123 + bonds + orders is pretty PUG-friendly, so it's an easy meta choice. Compare to Sway meta, if you know any PvP. --DANDY ^_^ -- 18:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Someone will need to edit the page in a way to put greater focus on how important it is to have high energy. Most pugs I've been in think it's okay to have 80-95 energy. It all comes back to the how un-pug-friendly the ER builds are. Cuilan 00:38, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
At first I had my doubts about this build, but once pugging a little I found that most of the ERs out there don't know how to properly use an EMo bar. Also, bad EMo = fail. With the immense inexperience of ERs, this isn't very pug friendly, as none of them know what they are doing. In addition, putting burning speed on both ERs instead of shield guardian/prot spirit makes life SO much easier, especially when the Emos are inexperienced. ER>Infuse>Burning Speed>Infuse>Burning Speed.. ect. This helps especially if ER1 dies during a failable quest, and being a PUG, res isn't very fast (shield guardian is the only spammable spell that doesn't cause you to explode your health) Burning speed is much more pugfriendly. -Phil
Burning Speed will just mean even more people incapable of running a rather easy build. If you have the right equipment (high energy) and have decent knowledge of the area, it's hard to suck with the bars posted.
The biggest problem I've noticed is that PUG ER's don't spam infuse (despite being only slightly less spammable than Burning Speed).--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 05:11, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I'm aware that new players should learn how to run this team build, but it can be very tiring just to lose 500g-1k to PUGs. Excluded doesn't like that I run exp groups (Show stones, 2+ stones approved for team or something), but it's currently in it's best form. (Though I've been wondering if the original E/Mo build would work better for energy etc. Juze JuzeAvatar 05:54, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
What I've noticed of the really bad ERs, is they try and spam their enchantments on themselves, not spamming Infuse, ending up out of range from everyone else and running out of energy. They just need to learn to play better. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 05:57, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm an ER and I go to PUGs often most of my fails are noob sins popping reaper in mountains when I tell them not to kill dryders. Also noob sins attacking BDRs we don't need to kill. Ritualist doesn't know how to build a wall for 4H. What I'm trying to say is it's not just ERs in PUGs.

psyway and imbasins Edit

That does seem to be what people call it. whether we want the builds to reflect in-game names like we've done with all the other builds is a matter of consistency though, i'd prefer consistency over what people would logically call the build--Relyk talk 22:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Might as well just call them imbasins, no-one lets anything else join a group, I've tried. They seem to think sins are the only thing that can do it, so they clearly cannot follow links at the bottom of the page. Zedone2 22:50, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Obviously they can't. I've been sitting in ToA for the past hour or so and have seen them called WotA and imbasin, but i have yet to see someone call this psyway. Life Guardian 22:52, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Seen at least 3-5 times. Psyway. Juze JuzeAvatar 09:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
I've already made a redirect from "psyway" and as far as i'm concerned the imbasins issue is solved. AthrunAthrun dotFeya 09:34, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

HM/NM Edit

Isn't this build made for HM. People are doing NM group and my guild mates said that is dumb because HM and NM with Physway is basically the same difficulty. Is this true?

Yup. Everything you said is true. :p--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 15:32, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Assuming everyone is bonded, then it won't make much difference. Clumsiness will be spammed just as much, Behmoths will still block, Aatxe will still deal 25~damage per attack. Dying Nightmares will still cast Rend Enchantments. Aatxe will still use Savage Slash, Grasping will still use Distracting Blow and Mindblades will still use Leech Signet. The Four Horsemen will still use Diversion and Shatter Enchantment. Also pretty sure Behmoth traps will still trigger PB. Things will attack slower. So yes, it's pointless.MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 16:04, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
only diff is that the spirits stay alive longer amd ememies die faster --Pryon 18:00, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Possible <60 mins? Edit

Would it be possible to do this in under 60 minutes. I'm saying clear chamber,split for vale/mnts,UWG,meet together for planes,then split pools/pitts?

Well, the fastest you'll probably be able to do without further splitting from the guide is about 1:25. That's no deaths, clean kills, no talking...etc. I still want to try the 4-4 split which I theorised in the archive with the guild. However, they would rather finish it in one piece, than try and split, fail and die. I am of the understanding people are already doing these splits, though; wouldn't mind hearing from them. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 19:57, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
You could also send the SoS off to clear wastes during the run to Mts, would have to tinker with his build a bit, but it'd be possible.Roarer 11:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I think ~50 minutes is possible with an experienced team and no fucking around (usually spend about 10-15 mins per run insulting Excluded for dying so much as an ER).--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 13:50, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Not without splitting, no way. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:48, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
We've gotten ~1:20 with tons of BS and inefficiency. The few splits we do use can be made a bit better though (maybe an extra split for UWG for example). Cutting off 30 minutes seems like a lot, but not so much when you consider how often we run in circles figuring out what quest to do next, unnecessary deaths, or wasting time insulting you. Then again, UW might not be as fun if we took those things out.--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 15:13, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Under 60 minutes is absolutely possible. Our fastest guild run with no splits is 57 minutes .--Lord Valvoga 21:40, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Might want to edit the guide, if you strayed from it and achieved a better time. MinionMinion sig k bish 00:33, July 3, 2010 (UTC)

we didnt stray from the guide at all so no need to edit it-LV

We didn't "stray" from "your" guide. no splits at all full team stays together, we will also beat the 57 minutes soon. I may decide to film it to shut you up. If you'd leave up the screen shot, get skills and quit hatin' we could help improve even your runs and the runs of any PUG. Its all about the order in which you do things. - Ecto Farmin Machine

GoC? Edit

I think it could be better for ERs to have a Glyph of Concentration, it could help a lot during 4h. Juze JuzeAvatar 13:00, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

No need the ERs just need to move outside range of mindblades when casting ER. Outerworld 13:16, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
What helps 4H is enchants. The more the better, beacuse of the mass-stripping the Horsemen can cause in such short time. GoC, like GoS, would be a crutch and not very helpful. Leech Signet can rupt it also, and so can MS. So why would it help exactly?MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wild Blow VS Wild Strike Edit

People think it'd be better to have Golden Fox Strike->Wild Strike; instead of Jagged-FF- Wild Blow. Atleast, the one person who keeps editing it in wherever possible. It's most definitely better to take Wild Blow seeing as you're only going to use it ~10 times in one area, then it will be useless. You will be sacrificing your quick-attack chain for the rest of UW, which will just slow you down. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

I tried bringing wild strike last time we did it, unfortunately you realise very quickly that if lead is blocked 3/4 times its inferior to instant removal via blow. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 15:02, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Also fox strike is slow activation. would be boring for rest of uw. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 15:04, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
for your information, i put the golden fox strike->wild strike there, but only by optional and i only put i there ONCE. i know its inferior to jagged strike now but don't go claiming i keep editing it wherever possible --Pryon 16:56, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Are you also the IP? If not, then I wasn't aiming the statement at you. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 17:38, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
In general PvE, I've found Fox Fangs to be better again. While it has ½ usage time + 33% IAS (Or 20% in UW Physway with essence?), it's actually faster to spike with than Wild Strike that has no described usage time. I've also had to wait 0,5 seconds to use Wild Strike again in general PvE and stance removal doesn't really deserve much usage in PvE again. So I'll go for FF. Try to understand. o_O Juze JuzeAvatar 19:30, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
thats because the 1/2sec attack skills ignore the normal one attack per 1.33 attack speed. And just jump on in there :D where at wildstrike needs to wait for the right point in teh sequence (off 1 attack per 1.33sec) to go off. hence why you get such good spike compression with them. Wild strike also has the draw back of jagged missing/been blocked ofc. JaysonMaxxFury 20:11, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

CritScythes. Edit

Should we really start replacing WotAs with CritScythes? I know it's in Guru but people won't let any other than WotAs inside, Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb + AoE damage. At least until we get that dervish/scythe update. Plus imbagon update. o_O Juze JuzeAvatar 08:36, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Did I mention +33% IAS? Juze JuzeAvatar 08:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
There was talk on this page before on how almost anything other than WotA' were bad due to the single target damage of daggers. Scythes are too slow. So no, there isn't any chance of them being replaced. --Samsig 08:45, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
oh dear.... the sins are optimal but any physical works...it says that on the page/links/guide..(unless some shitter removed it xD) scythe is fine as an alt, but remove aohm for ebsoh..r/a daggers, d/w zv, w/x anything, a/d scythe. Ppl should learn to read eh? *edit it seems some one DID remove the not about 'other physicals can also be taken, but wota sins are optimal'.on this page..no wonder pugs wont take more than sins :P they can only do what they are told in black n white :PJaysonMaxxFury 10:55, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
Juze, stop being bad. Essence + WotA = 33% IAS and Crit Scythe doesn't get OoP bonus because of Holy damage. --Iggy 's other account 13:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
I said: "Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb". And I'm not even sure if Essence + WotA stack. Meh. YMLaD ftw. Juze JuzeAvatar 19:35, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
I don't care what you think, you are a terrible shitter who knows nothing. Shut up. --Iggy 's other account 11:23, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
To be fair, if AoHM's bonus damage is higher than OoP's, there's no reason in passing up holy damage. It'd only be a concern if there was a MoP nuker in the team. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 20:05, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
Oi, its {{quote|i fucked your mother}}, it will come out as "i fucked your mother" if you want to quote.--Oskar 20:07, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
No one brought that up. Go troll Jews' page. Novelty input or gtfo. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 20:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
i think that giving his mother a novelty input would be a better course of action :D tits blah blah or somethingTFO and scythes are slow and boring..JaysonMaxxFury 20:53, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
piss off, i was telling him how to quote cause he did it wrong.--Oskar 21:01, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
You indent by using one more ":" that the last person, I'm just telling you because you did it wrong..and over defensive much? and i was implying you should give his mother some novely input and not fuck her.. its pvx.. and daggers are more fun than scythes!JaysonMaxxFury 21:34, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
You indent by using 1 more : then the person you are replying to. I did not do it wrong, i was not making any contribution to the build i was explaining to juze the way to be wikily correct when quoting. Shut up.--Oskar 22:26, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
Then take it up with Jews on his talk page. This is useless clutter.MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 23:38, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

To the Jayson guy above, nothing will kick out single target damage like these dagger sins ever, which imo is what you are ideally looking for. Juze was just being Juze when he decided that he thought scythes would be good. Anything else like you mentioned like war/rangers will just be bad. --Samsig 23:44, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

100b>daggersin>scythe(war, derv, sin)>ES>everything else

Minion doesn't like 100b mainly cause it requires MoP + coordination...and any team with Minion in it will be too busy insulting him for being a failure to follow MoP calls.--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 01:38, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

"single target damage" The daggerchain takes about a second to run through to single targets, as well as anything else unlucky enough to get caught next to you by DB. 100b warr couldn't match that damage even if he tried. --Samsig 01:54, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

"oh dear.... the sins are optimal but any physical works...it says that on the page/links/guide..(unless some shitter removed it xD) scythe is fine as an alt, but remove aohm for ebsoh..r/a daggers, d/w zv, w/x anything, a/d scythe. Ppl should learn to read eh? *edit it seems some one DID remove the not about 'other physicals can also be taken, but wota sins are optimal'.on this page..no wonder pugs wont take more than sins :P they can only do what they are told in black n white :P" Yeah, lol, try and get any other profession into UW with this build and you will be laughed at. Oh well, at least we can seperate the pugs prety easily. Zedone2 18:03, June 26, 2010 (UTC)

"YMLaD!" Edit

Just because they move like dwarfs. Should we have this PvE-only skill on our lovely SoS-rit? Combined with Earthbind it's superb, 3 second knockdown support and quick interrupt for Rend Enchantments. <3 Juze JuzeAvatar 08:59, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing better to give the rit really so yeah decent optional Tyrael Strikes Back- 13:17, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
vampirism--Relyk talk 03:58, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
I just tested this one, it's great with Earthbind but causes a bit energy trouble to SoS. :/ Juze JuzeAvatar 19:25, June 26, 2010 (UTC)
Wtf, you have Spirit Siphon. How can you not have too much energy?--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 19:12, June 27, 2010 (UTC)
Can't say it's hevier on energy than other Rit build that are used in SC. Energy is as much of a problem as you allow it to become. ;o Juze you are just hopelessly terrible. --Iggy 's other account 11:19, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Four Horseman Edit

9 out of 10 PUG groups fail at this quest because either the ER's don't know what to do or sins rush off to kill the horseman and die. Because of this i made allot of additions to the guide, please comment if you think i have left anything out.--122.106.168.44 12:25, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

Why do people always blame the ER when they fail 4H. To be honest all of my PUG fails in 4H are from noob sins I never saw an ER fail at this quest. It is ALWAYS sins being noobs over-extending, leaving before the whole side is cleared, being noobs getting their chain diverted, splitting. The list goes on and on. Who cares if the rt is inexp it's allowed to die. The quest is still easy even if he dies he doesn't have to stall the horsemen forever.
Its true that is usually the sins fault for overextending. I myself usually play as an ER and find that either the primary ER doesn't spam cover enchants on the group and the group dies or the secondary ER doesn't spam enchants on the reaper and the reaper dies. It's not all about infusing, but if the sins overextend i guess you cant prot them anyway so its there fault if they die. --Gift X 18:13, June 28, 2010 (UTC)

I know its asking a lot from pugs, but the easiest way to finish 4h non fail is to have a good rit who can pull the pools side aggro slowly behind reaper. Which gives Pits side ample time to finish. The rit requires cover enchants though.--Lord Valvoga

Like I said before even if you have a good rit in a PUG. Trust me I've been with pretty amazing rits with me that can stall pools side until we are finished with pitts and still be alive when we are done. But the sins just split up like retards or get their chains diverted like morons. It's really the sins for PUGs i'm telling you sins have to get smarter.
Stop blaming it on individual professions, not every rit or e/mo is good and not every sin is bad and vice versa. Just stop being dumb and saying 'if your a sin your bad and if your not your good'--Oskar 00:52, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
It was a valid generalisation, and I have come to the same conclusion. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 00:55, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
I once failed at 4h, because even though we killed all horsemen, the reaper wasn't invulnerable, is that a bug/glitch? he still had aggro from the dryders though.
I don't think it's a bug; but the Reaper does seem to need an "In the Area" clearing of safe land before disappearing from the party. MinionMinion sig k bish 13:02, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Please Sins Edit

This Build is very good and very fast...but there is just a little problem with sins... Please write that the sins don't have to run away everytime....today i try this with 3 teams...always have a sin running on right, another running on left...i go totally crazy. After ER1 died, and ping that he have only 4 mana, so he can't bond...but the sin don't wait and go against other enemy... no one take a scroll of resurrection. Sin don't have any idea of the ER's job....maybe thay think it's just like a terraway...but isn't. So please read how to use this team-build. I'm very tired of people that are only good to say "run run run" or "bond bond bond". Ty^^

Do it yourself, anybody can edit the build page.--Oskar 23:50, July 3, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, just put something like "Don't over-extend from the ERs" After all, we're not monks with Party-Wide heals. And I think I put that on the page already, but people don't understand mechanics. MinionMinion sig k bish 00:07, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

dth Edit

Are so Fucking ProMinionMinion sig k bish 19:26, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

you are sooo cool dude we posted that just so people can see it can be done in under an hour. But k w/e bash us more kthxbai --INS0MNI4

It's Guild Wars, all of you, grow the fuck up. --Short 20:10, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

gilworzzzzzzzzzz--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 20:11, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
lol, okay sure w/e you are telling us to grow up after he removed the screenshot from the "Build" tab and then decided to post ours here in a asshole manner. --INS0MNI4
I saw that one, one hour ago. Pretty pro. But terraway still beats this team build, compared to DLway too for 30 minute runs. Juze JuzeAvatar 20:14, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
I thought Physway wasn't build for speed. --Samsig 20:30, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
lol, there have been questions posted here about speed and regardless people need a reason to run such a build. Both terraway and DLway are faster than Physway, yes. But both require experience and fail a lot more with pugs, while physway is puggable. We were just showing the GW community that under an hour is possible.--INS0MNI4 21:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
So this is with pugs?--Relyk talk 23:08, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Nope but all the strategies follow the guide so it could be. the only reason we posted the screenshot is to show it can be done in under an hour without splits--INS0MNI4 23:33, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
k gfy ^^--Relyk talk 23:40, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
lol?--INS0MNI4 23:47, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
lol, the maturity level of some of these posters is such a joke. We posted a screen shot to show people that it can be done in under an hour as it was asked in an earlier discussion topic. Minion decided to remove it and post it here with in a Douche Bagish manner. Lets get one thing clear we aren't fucking posting this to say we are better than everyone else, we only posted this to show everyone else it can be done in under an hour.--INS0MNI4 23:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
Then post it again with a less epeen manner. You know what I mean. But if people really want to find out if such a time is achievable, they'd check the talk page. MinionMinion sig k bish 00:28, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Lol please tell me how we posted it with an epeen manner,because we said "[dth] record". We said that because it was the best time we've gotten so far, and clearly the best time you've seen so far, after seeing what you wrote... "Well, the fastest you'll probably be able to do without further splitting from the guide is about 1:25. That's no deaths, clean kills, no talking...etc. " .. And also looking through some other pvxwiki posts, there are quite a bit of screen shots showing possible times achieved by using x build. And again "If you want to show off your fast run, then post it on the Talk Page. mawr0n" You misunderstood why we posted it and so the 2nd time i even removed the word "record" and posted it saying "UW Physway 57min dth", yet you removed it again with an asshole comment as your justification, so who is the one with the epeen? Just because somehow we achieved a great time, followed the guide none the less and proved your whole idea wrong about times being achieved without splits doesn't mean you have to sit there and bash us. --INS0MNI4 00:42, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
  • 57min UW Physway dth record That is what I removed. It is an impressive time, if you really did not split. Although having had been on a run with you, I know you used Speedclear tactics to finish on Dhuum. Although I am suspicious as to why there is an A/P in the screenshot. MinionMinion sig k bish 00:50, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
im almost positive i removed the word record from that but sure w/e. We kill dhuum with someone encasing, and everyone spamming rest with a Rit and the EMos still alive. I do recall being told [XIII] were being assholes on a run with us and telling us how it should be done and how some of the things we did are slower and giving there own opinions on how it should be done. Theres an AP there because we were testing out "Cant Touch This" to prevent blind during the mountain part, but its meh and not really worth it because it didn't make mountain any faster. And also if you've been on a run with us you should know we dont split. We have tried it and it was risky with a couple deaths and haven't tried it since then since the time saved wasn't worth it to us and you can't "c-space" as much. So again we really dont do this any different from the guide you have posted.INS0MNI4 01:06, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

uw is srs bsns!--Relyk talk 02:07, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Well, nice to know the guide is effective. You might want to add the extra split you do in UWG, though. MinionMinion sig k bish 06:57, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Dear dth, I play with your guys often in SC you are good players but nobody cares...move on. PS: Physway was never designed to be a speedclear so using SC tactics corrupts the purpose of the build. Or if that's not perfectly clear; you can't call it physway if you are using SC tactics and splitting and then lying about it, get it? 71.56.32.112 17:24, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
lol, believe it or not i dont think we care anymore have fun. --INS0MNI4 19:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

I have insurance with AARP and they say IM PRO - NIM DAE!

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