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Archive 1

Srsly menz.

Wtf with the silly SoS Rit? Terrible bar is terrible. =/ --Iggy 's other account 11:08, June 16, 2010 (UTC)

And now terrible runes? You can't give anything two major + superior rune=dead soon kk.MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 11:48, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't add them. Juze did. I fixed them to minors and you reverted back to double majors so I thought you wanted double majors Zzz. Anyway, what sense does it make to take a lvl7 offensive spirit? It will die in one hit from anything. --Iggy 's other account 12:23, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Higher spawning is prefered because it gives the spirits more health - so they can be hit + remain alive [ and more chance of being under 50% for BuH! buff ] rather than spirit damage.. which is pitiful compared to the physicals. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 13:37, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Fixed again. xD Juze JuzeAvatar 14:43, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Oh and terrible template usage: You made the build use 201/200 attribute points. You're terrible yourself. Good game. Juze JuzeAvatar 14:44, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
lvl13 spirit at 11 spawning > lvl12 spirit at 12 spawning. You are clueless. Also, don't go calling people terrible when you are a [KISS] shitter. :S --Iggy 's other account 14:46, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with igor. Docta Jenkins 20:56, June 16, 2010 (UTC)
Such a big deal unbalancing: 26 vs 25 dmg, +20 health vs +5 armor. It's much better now, get over it. Juze JuzeAvatar 08:02, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's not and you are retarded. --Iggy 's other account 10:13, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Imbafaggotnames

I vote that the next person to change the name is banned. Following edits should have bans as well. This is retarded bullshit. Pick a name and leave it there. Docta Jenkins 01:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Quoted by Excluded: "Yes; I was the one who CHANGED them to being called "WotA sins" because "Imbasin" sounded fucking retarded.". So screw the imbasin name, sin without SY is no imba. Call them spikers, WotA or just sins/assassins. But really, I see Imbasin again which is like so retarded. Juze JuzeAvatar 07:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
What's more retarded people still keep getting into revert wars over something so irrelevant. Who cares how the build is called? --Iggy 's other account 10:18, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
PVX PEOPLE DO BUILD NAMES ARE SRS BSNS--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 12:31, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
SENSE NONE MAKE COMMENT YOURS. --Iggy 's other account 14:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I can't really see how such trivial shit even requires a section. "Imbasin(s)" isn't descriptive to the least, and there's no correlation to the automatic association of imbagons and SY. Anyone who calls Jagged-Fox-Blossom a spike should also just uninstall the game for not knowing the difference between pressure and a spike. "WotA sins" is simple and descriptive, cut the custom names shit out. --DANDY ^_^ -- 14:57, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

Okay this trivial bullshit has gone on too long (it's also in the archive, Chaos). It was some IP who reverted 9 times before being blocked. I'm expecting them to be left as WotA assassins and have left a note at the bottom of the page saying they're sometimes called imbasins (because i have actually seen them called this in game). If I hear any more about this, whoever brings it up will be silenced accordingly. AthrunAthrun dotFeya 21:58, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

I like Lau's new sig. Life Guardian 00:32, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I like Lau in general. Docta Jenkins 05:50, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I do too, but she needs to make the dots have a transparent background, wow. Brandnew 08:45, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

WTF...

How the fuck did this trash become the meta... aside from the fact that all the failer sins can now do UW. This is a fucking joke you can take any team with 2 EMo's (rofl at ER1 and ER2 they are just 2 terrible EMo bars) and finish UW you can take 4 fucking Beast Mastery rangers and finish... --Risus 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

PUG friendly is why it's meta tbh. I wouldn't get to pent up about it. --Short 17:37, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Im guessing your ER bars consist of Burning Speed spam. lal. Roarer 17:44, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I'm guessing I don't play GW anymore? --Short 17:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
I was talking to Risus.Roarer 17:46, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Lolol. Sorry, indenting made me lolwut. --Short 17:47, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
ubad. cba to make this comment more constructive, not worth my time. --Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 18:25, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah as was kind of pointed out already, the build with the best possible Efficiency/Skill (Effort) rate becomes meta, not the one with the highest efficiency rate. In English, 123 + bonds + orders is pretty PUG-friendly, so it's an easy meta choice. Compare to Sway meta, if you know any PvP. --DANDY ^_^ -- 18:45, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
Someone will need to edit the page in a way to put greater focus on how important it is to have high energy. Most pugs I've been in think it's okay to have 80-95 energy. It all comes back to the how un-pug-friendly the ER builds are. Cuilan 00:38, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
At first I had my doubts about this build, but once pugging a little I found that most of the ERs out there don't know how to properly use an EMo bar. Also, bad EMo = fail. With the immense inexperience of ERs, this isn't very pug friendly, as none of them know what they are doing. In addition, putting burning speed on both ERs instead of shield guardian/prot spirit makes life SO much easier, especially when the Emos are inexperienced. ER>Infuse>Burning Speed>Infuse>Burning Speed.. ect. This helps especially if ER1 dies during a failable quest, and being a PUG, res isn't very fast (shield guardian is the only spammable spell that doesn't cause you to explode your health) Burning speed is much more pugfriendly. -Phil
Burning Speed will just mean even more people incapable of running a rather easy build. If you have the right equipment (high energy) and have decent knowledge of the area, it's hard to suck with the bars posted.
The biggest problem I've noticed is that PUG ER's don't spam infuse (despite being only slightly less spammable than Burning Speed).--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 05:11, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
I'm aware that new players should learn how to run this team build, but it can be very tiring just to lose 500g-1k to PUGs. Excluded doesn't like that I run exp groups (Show stones, 2+ stones approved for team or something), but it's currently in it's best form. (Though I've been wondering if the original E/Mo build would work better for energy etc. Juze JuzeAvatar 05:54, June 18, 2010 (UTC)
What I've noticed of the really bad ERs, is they try and spam their enchantments on themselves, not spamming Infuse, ending up out of range from everyone else and running out of energy. They just need to learn to play better. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 05:57, June 18, 2010 (UTC)

I'm an ER and I go to PUGs often most of my fails are noob sins popping reaper in mountains when I tell them not to kill dryders. Also noob sins attacking BDRs we don't need to kill. Ritualist doesn't know how to build a wall for 4H. What I'm trying to say is it's not just ERs in PUGs.

psyway and imbasins

That does seem to be what people call it. whether we want the builds to reflect in-game names like we've done with all the other builds is a matter of consistency though, i'd prefer consistency over what people would logically call the build--Relyk talk 22:16, June 19, 2010 (UTC)

Might as well just call them imbasins, no-one lets anything else join a group, I've tried. They seem to think sins are the only thing that can do it, so they clearly cannot follow links at the bottom of the page. Zedone2 22:50, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Obviously they can't. I've been sitting in ToA for the past hour or so and have seen them called WotA and imbasin, but i have yet to see someone call this psyway. Life Guardian 22:52, June 19, 2010 (UTC)
Seen at least 3-5 times. Psyway. Juze JuzeAvatar 09:16, June 20, 2010 (UTC)
I've already made a redirect from "psyway" and as far as i'm concerned the imbasins issue is solved. AthrunAthrun dotFeya 09:34, June 20, 2010 (UTC)

HM/NM

Isn't this build made for HM. People are doing NM group and my guild mates said that is dumb because HM and NM with Physway is basically the same difficulty. Is this true?

Yup. Everything you said is true. :p--Digit0lDigitalfear SigQu33r 15:32, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
Assuming everyone is bonded, then it won't make much difference. Clumsiness will be spammed just as much, Behmoths will still block, Aatxe will still deal 25~damage per attack. Dying Nightmares will still cast Rend Enchantments. Aatxe will still use Savage Slash, Grasping will still use Distracting Blow and Mindblades will still use Leech Signet. The Four Horsemen will still use Diversion and Shatter Enchantment. Also pretty sure Behmoth traps will still trigger PB. Things will attack slower. So yes, it's pointless.MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 16:04, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
only diff is that the spirits stay alive longer amd ememies die faster --Pryon 18:00, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Possible <60 mins?

Would it be possible to do this in under 60 minutes. I'm saying clear chamber,split for vale/mnts,UWG,meet together for planes,then split pools/pitts?

Well, the fastest you'll probably be able to do without further splitting from the guide is about 1:25. That's no deaths, clean kills, no talking...etc. I still want to try the 4-4 split which I theorised in the archive with the guild. However, they would rather finish it in one piece, than try and split, fail and die. I am of the understanding people are already doing these splits, though; wouldn't mind hearing from them. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 19:57, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
You could also send the SoS off to clear wastes during the run to Mts, would have to tinker with his build a bit, but it'd be possible.Roarer 11:19, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

I think ~50 minutes is possible with an experienced team and no fucking around (usually spend about 10-15 mins per run insulting Excluded for dying so much as an ER).--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 13:50, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

Not without splitting, no way. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:48, June 23, 2010 (UTC)
We've gotten ~1:20 with tons of BS and inefficiency. The few splits we do use can be made a bit better though (maybe an extra split for UWG for example). Cutting off 30 minutes seems like a lot, but not so much when you consider how often we run in circles figuring out what quest to do next, unnecessary deaths, or wasting time insulting you. Then again, UW might not be as fun if we took those things out.--ArrogantArrogant Bastard SigBastard 15:13, June 23, 2010 (UTC)

GoC?

I think it could be better for ERs to have a Glyph of Concentration, it could help a lot during 4h. Juze JuzeAvatar 13:00, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

No need the ERs just need to move outside range of mindblades when casting ER. Outerworld 13:16, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
What helps 4H is enchants. The more the better, beacuse of the mass-stripping the Horsemen can cause in such short time. GoC, like GoS, would be a crutch and not very helpful. Leech Signet can rupt it also, and so can MS. So why would it help exactly?MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:46, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Wild Blow VS Wild Strike

People think it'd be better to have Golden Fox Strike->Wild Strike; instead of Jagged-FF- Wild Blow. Atleast, the one person who keeps editing it in wherever possible. It's most definitely better to take Wild Blow seeing as you're only going to use it ~10 times in one area, then it will be useless. You will be sacrificing your quick-attack chain for the rest of UW, which will just slow you down. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 14:51, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

I tried bringing wild strike last time we did it, unfortunately you realise very quickly that if lead is blocked 3/4 times its inferior to instant removal via blow. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 15:02, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Also fox strike is slow activation. would be boring for rest of uw. --Chieftain Alex "talk" 15:04, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
for your information, i put the golden fox strike->wild strike there, but only by optional and i only put i there ONCE. i know its inferior to jagged strike now but don't go claiming i keep editing it wherever possible --Pryon 16:56, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
Are you also the IP? If not, then I wasn't aiming the statement at you. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 17:38, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
In general PvE, I've found Fox Fangs to be better again. While it has ½ usage time + 33% IAS (Or 20% in UW Physway with essence?), it's actually faster to spike with than Wild Strike that has no described usage time. I've also had to wait 0,5 seconds to use Wild Strike again in general PvE and stance removal doesn't really deserve much usage in PvE again. So I'll go for FF. Try to understand. o_O Juze JuzeAvatar 19:30, June 24, 2010 (UTC)
thats because the 1/2sec attack skills ignore the normal one attack per 1.33 attack speed. And just jump on in there :D where at wildstrike needs to wait for the right point in teh sequence (off 1 attack per 1.33sec) to go off. hence why you get such good spike compression with them. Wild strike also has the draw back of jagged missing/been blocked ofc. JaysonMaxxFury 20:11, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

CritScythes.

Should we really start replacing WotAs with CritScythes? I know it's in Guru but people won't let any other than WotAs inside, Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb + AoE damage. At least until we get that dervish/scythe update. Plus imbagon update. o_O Juze JuzeAvatar 08:36, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Did I mention +33% IAS? Juze JuzeAvatar 08:39, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
There was talk on this page before on how almost anything other than WotA' were bad due to the single target damage of daggers. Scythes are too slow. So no, there isn't any chance of them being replaced. --Samsig 08:45, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
oh dear.... the sins are optimal but any physical works...it says that on the page/links/guide..(unless some shitter removed it xD) scythe is fine as an alt, but remove aohm for ebsoh..r/a daggers, d/w zv, w/x anything, a/d scythe. Ppl should learn to read eh? *edit it seems some one DID remove the not about 'other physicals can also be taken, but wota sins are optimal'.on this page..no wonder pugs wont take more than sins :P they can only do what they are told in black n white :PJaysonMaxxFury 10:55, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
Juze, stop being bad. Essence + WotA = 33% IAS and Crit Scythe doesn't get OoP bonus because of Holy damage. --Iggy 's other account 13:09, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
I said: "Order of Pain won't trigger with Aura of Holy Might but holy damage in UW is just superb". And I'm not even sure if Essence + WotA stack. Meh. YMLaD ftw. Juze JuzeAvatar 19:35, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
To be fair, if AoHM's bonus damage is higher than OoP's, there's no reason in passing up holy damage. It'd only be a concern if there was a MoP nuker in the team. MinionMinion sig k bishExcluded 20:05, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
Oi, its {{quote|i fucked your mother}}, it will come out as "i fucked your mother" if you want to quote.--80.7.57.208 20:07, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

"YMLaD!"

Just because they move like dwarfs. Should we have this PvE-only skill on our lovely SoS-rit? Combined with Earthbind it's superb, 3 second knockdown support and quick interrupt for Rend Enchantments. <3 Juze JuzeAvatar 08:59, June 25, 2010 (UTC)

Nothing better to give the rit really so yeah decent optional Tyrael Strikes Back- 13:17, June 25, 2010 (UTC)
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