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The Admin noticeboard

There are a number of issues that can only be solved by an Administrator. The Admin noticeboard is one of the means through which users can contact Administrators in order to identify a problem that needs Administrative attention. Although editors are welcome to directly contact particular Administrators, posting on this page instead may be an easier way to let the entire Administrative group know of the issue (which may be particularly helpful since it increases the odds that at least one Administrator will see, and thus be able to respond to, the issue promptly).

There are only a limited number of things for which this page should be used. Many problems can be solved without Administrative intervention, and, thus, this page should be restricted to those issues that actually require an Administrator. Those are: blocking vandals, (un)deleting pages, (un)protecting pages, removing votes (either as per Real Vetting or because the build has been substantially edited), and mediation (only if the situation demands it).

Even in cases of vandalism, posting on this page needn't be the first step (and indeed should not be the first step). If you see vandalism, just go ahead and revert it, anyone has the power to do so. If it's a new article with no safe version to revert back to, tag it for deletion. In both cases you should leave a message in the talk page of that user to make him/her aware of why that kind of edit is unacceptable on PvXwiki. Only post here if that user persists in his/her actions, ignoring the warnings or if the content requires immediate Administrative attention (eg. if the material on the page is so offensive that should be immediately deleted).

(Be careful in case that user repeatedly insists on vandalizing, avoid a revert war; it's far better to temporarily leave the vandalized version of the page up until an admin has a chance to intervene.)

To create a new request: add an item to the bottom of the list below, providing a brief, neutral summary of the issue. As a sign of courtesy, also leave a message on the talk page of any other involved users so they are aware of this discussion. If you are alerting an admin of a vandal, use the {{IP}} template, with the first parameter being the vandal's IP or username. If you are requesting that vote(s) be removed, please use the {{Build}} template, with the first parameter being the build's name.

Please place new requests at the bottom of the corresponding issues heading.

General Issues

General issues include (un)deleting pages, (un)protecting pages, banning vandals, and moderating serious disputes. This section may also be used for miscellaneous issues as well as Administrative announcements. See resolved issues here.

Licensing version

See this. Page is protected, so one of you guys needs to fix it. --Wizardboy777 23:48, 21 September 2007 (CEST)

I've been talking to Gcardinal, and we're unsure which is correct, and obviously, we can't fix it until we know which is the problem, so no fix, for the moment. --Edru viransu//QQ about me/sysop 00:04, 22 September 2007 (CEST)
I think we have to use version 2.0. We took over quite some content from Guild Wiki, and they use 2.0 with no note on the possibility of silent upgrades. So we have to put at least the pages which originated there under 2.0. Anyway, we should put up a consistent statement asap. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 20:32, 3 October 2007 (CEST)

Penguin93man (talk · contribs · logs · check user · block user · block log)

Relation with Penguin00000 seems sketchy. Similar name, both voted similarly on W/A Bursting Palm, after both getting exactly 8 contribs. This is total postulation, I'm sorry if I'm mistaken. -Shen 20:30, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Dealt with. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:40, 28 January 2008 (EST)

The Make-A-Profession Contest

We should have a page where the completed professions go, right? Forgive me if there already is one, i couldn't find it. I Am Jebus 17:00, 31 January 2008 (EST)

All entries should be submitted via email to contest@pvxwiki.com. The subject of the email should be something along the lines of "Profession Contest," and the email itself must contain the entrant's PvXwiki username. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 19:53, 31 January 2008 (EST)
I'd also like to make a note that it isn't recommended for entrants to publicly post their professions before the contest is over. Also, take the time to tweak and balance out profession designs. Much of the judging will be based on balance and concept, so it may be worth spending the contest period to refine one profession rather than coming up with ten ideas. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 18:12, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Ikimono (talk · contribs · logs · check user · block user · block log)

I'll take the NPA, because he made a big nono and deserves the ban. Also, he's an arrogant dick, ala Omigawa.Dark0805sig2 09:16, 1 February 2008 (EST)

He's edited other comments also i just didnt realize.Dark0805sig2 09:17, 1 February 2008 (EST)
DE gave him three days for NPA. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 13:59, 1 February 2008 (EST)
And then Armond changed it to a month. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 19:46, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Zealot (talk · contribs · logs · check user · block user · block log)

NPA on Guild of Deals' talk page after being warned twice. --71.229 18:04, 4 February 2008 (EST)

He's been blocked for a few days. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 18:11, 4 February 2008 (EST)
71.229 Awesome --71.229 18:14, 4 February 2008 (EST)
He's persistent, though. Might want to extend his ban, since he doesn't seem to care. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 19:12, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Ban duration has been modified accordingly. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:23, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Super Mario is almost certainly his sock, might need to checkuser. Lord Belar 21:05, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Being banned also means that your ip is autoblocked for a day. Static ip methinks. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 21:28, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Proxy. Lord Belar 21:43, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Also, you meant dynamic IP. I love mine so much. --71.229 21:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)
I get confused sometimes methinks. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 02:11, 5 February 2008 (EST)
Although, according to Admins, their IP's are different, there could be other things. As Admins may know from blocking me, I have like 2 different IP's. This is because I go to 2 households, so another account could easily be constantly accessed at school, another house, etc. Just a theory. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 15:09, 6 February 2008 (EST)
I have three plus 2p255 * 2p255 IP addresses, so there. :D --71.229.204.25 15:17, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Lecramstar (talk · contribs · logs · check user · block user · block log)

[1]. Plus he deleted stuff I wrote earlier on the same page. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 10:34, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Blocked for a coupla days. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 16:59, 5 February 2008 (EST)

205.222.248.13 (talk · contribs · logs · check user · block user · block log)

NPA, blocked before for same. --71.229 11:18, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Dealt with. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 16:56, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Build-Specific Issues

Build-Specific refers to any issue pertaining to the removal of votes, usually resolved by a Build Master or Administrator. See resolved issues here.

Note: If applicable, please identify specific votes to improve admin response time.

Mo/any RA Bonder (talk · rate)

This build was vetted as good/great long time ago. And now a single user Tycn is trying to set the rating to match his personal opinion. 216.218.214.2 07:04, 12 February 2008 (EST) February 11, 2008

  • 22:06 . . Mo/any RA Bonder; Rating: 2.55 (acceptable) . . E:3 U:1 I:2 . . Tycn (Talk | contribs)
  • 22:03 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.85 (great) posted by: Zarka (Talk | contribs)
  • 22:01 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 5 (great) posted by: SpiKy (Talk | contribs)
  • 22:00 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.85 (great) posted by: M00n5p311 (Talk | contribs)
  • 22:00 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.7 (great) posted by: Panthor (Talk | contribs)
  • 21:59 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.85 (great) posted by: Woefpoef (Talk | contribs)
  • 21:59 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.55 (great) posted by: Bob fregman (Talk | contribs)
  • 21:59 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.4 (good) posted by: Warrior Zez (Talk | contribs)
  • 21:56 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 5 (great) posted by: Timinator (Talk | contribs)
  • 21:55 . . Rollback Mo/any RA Bonder; Tycn removed rating: 4.55 (great) posted by: Y0 ich halt (Talk | contribs)
I see no problem. It's not a great build, and he removed some of the great votes. You'll notice he didn't even remove all of them. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 16:14, 12 February 2008 (EST)
The votes were struck because they were generic "This build is good" comments. The onus is on the voter to justify their voting rather than making a general vague comment. Tycn is not out of place by striking the above votes, and there is no basis that his actions reflect his "personal opinion". --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 06:02, 13 February 2008 (EST)

A/any Deadly Shroud Impaler (talk · rate)

Build:A/any Deadly Shroud Impaler needs a look over by an admin. Selket Shadowdancer 05:19, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Done. Mike Tycn(punch out) 05:37, 4 February 2008 (EST)

R/Mo Delibating Cripshot (talk · rate)

Yeah... im pretty pissed that the whole page was deleted overnight. Someone explain please.... there was no well page or anything, the whole thing was just deleted.PhoenixÌmmφrτalìs αnìmµs a Kìεsτ (talk/pvxcontribs) 06:56, 6 February 2008 (EST)

See R/Mo Cripshot and read WELL. It was a dupe, and a bad one at that. -Shen 07:58, 6 February 2008 (EST)
This is relevant, considering that the WELL tag was added at 22:38 yesterday and DE deleted it at 22:43 without providing a reason for deletion. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 15:02, 6 February 2008 (EST)
It was a bad dupe, the rule does not apply--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 15:07, 6 February 2008 (EST)
...delay deletion until the author is... given a chance to understand the reason behind deletion beyond merely the statement of "PvX:WELL." Doesn't say anything about that not applying to bad dupes. I don't disagree with its deletion (I trust DE's judgment), I'm just saying that it seems he was a little hasty. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 15:22, 6 February 2008 (EST)
I agree with wizardboy 100%.—Cheese Slaya's Sig Cheese Slaya (Talk) 18:12, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Ok... well... the build would have almost certainly been deleted at some point, it was an inferior version of an existing build. On the other hand, I do agree that I shouldn't have deleted it as as quickly as I did (*Shakes fist at self*), but, even I'm gonna mess up every once in a while :P. @DestinyOfKiest: Do you still want an explanation for why your build was deleted? Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:26, 8 February 2008 (EST)

IDRC, it was probably a trash build anyway lol. Good ideas are scarce :PPhoenixÌmmφrτalìs αnìmµs a Kìεsτ (talk/pvxcontribs) 22:39, 8 February 2008 (EST)

A/any Speak No Magic Sin (talk · rate)

Have tidied up and improved skill bar somewhat on Build:A/any Speak No Magic Sin. Please remove votes for fresh vote on build. Selket Shadowdancer 05:57, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Just for future reference, tag the headers like so: ==={{build:A/any_Speak_No_Magic_Sin|A/any Speak No Magic Sin}}===. That'll give us a couple of useful links to the build. --24.9.234.253 06:09, 4 February 2008 (EST)
It's actually {{build|A/any Speak No Magic Sin}}. If you use a colon it's treated as a template and the entire build page is shown here. --click moar Mafaraxas 06:21, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Thanks, I'll remember that for future reference. Selket Shadowdancer 07:04, 4 February 2008 (EST)
You're welcome. Mike Tycn(punch out) 07:07, 4 February 2008 (EST)

D/A Shadow Spiker (talk · rate)

Low votes again (0-0-0, 1-1-1 or w/e they were). Build has optional for self heal, speed boost, etc. HoF was removed from main and attributes changed. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 13:17, 4 February 2008 (EST)

I'm Sorry i wasn't aware we were allowed to have Dupes. Build:D/A Pious Shadow--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 13:25, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Talk about dupe on talk page, don't vote it down because of it. Either way this got voted better and thus should be kept over the other. You keep the most popular/best one, order doesn't matter. Swiftslash \\ Impale (contributions *sandbox) 13:38, 4 February 2008 (EST)
I believe i did say something about it on the talk page, I said delete it, and im not even the one who added the tag.--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 13:46, 4 February 2008 (EST)
Just to be clear, order does usually matter, but there are exceptions (like when one is in Great and the other Trash). Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:34, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Rt/R Barrage Super Splinter (talk · rate)

Sleepy almond's vote. The Splinter nerf doesn't hit Barrage hard enough to warrant a 0-0-0. Anyway, Splinter/Barrage still works correctly. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 15:31, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Frvwfr got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:59, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Rt/R_Barrage_Super_Splinter (talk · rate)

SuperMario's vote. Says "Splinter/Barrage has been used ever since Factions came out 2 years ago" and yet 1 effectiveness? Not to mention how incredibly damaging Splinter/Barrage is. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 20:56, 4 February 2008 (EST)

I got it. And there's a section right above this one for the exact same build :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:59, 4 February 2008 (EST)
I'm blind. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 21:01, 4 February 2008 (EST)

Team - Weapon of Mass Destruction (talk · rate)

Bad vote. Guess who. Lord Belar 17:04, 5 February 2008 (EST)

Resolved by Armond. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 14:54, 6 February 2008 (EST)

D/N Arcane Orders Dervish (talk · rate)

Err... I don't see why 2 people are giving it high votes. The build seems simply bad. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 15:16, 6 February 2008 (EST)

D/any AoG Dervish (talk · rate)

Fusions vote, is just uhhmm, wrong?--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 08:48, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Resolved. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 09:27, 7 February 2008 (EST)

Any vote that says prot spirit/SB owns you.... DUH! its a spike. tell me one spike that prot spirit and spirit bond doesnt own? and all the AoM > while it is better in that you have no conditions, Block > You.--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 01:22, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Blood spike. gg. and if any of you links to that sog vs soap vid, im gonna kill you.Cheese Slaya's Sig Cheese Slaya (Talk) 18:13, 8 February 2008 (EST)
It was epic and you know it. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 19:22, 8 February 2008 (EST)

The point is your target shouldn't be enchanted if you're expecting to get a kill (you're not going to kill anything by autoattacking) — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 01:17, 9 February 2008 (EST)

R/Rt Sundering Hunter (talk · rate)

JenniferBelle's vote. She keeps voting these bad Sundering/Penetrating builds good, yet they all blow. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 15:17, 8 February 2008 (EST)

Resolved via talk page. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 22:57, 12 February 2008 (EST)

P/N_BiP_Paragon (talk · rate)

Fire tock says cripshot is bad.Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 22:23, 8 February 2008 (EST)

I got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 22:36, 8 February 2008 (EST)
I may be totally late, but that was the most hilarious build rating i've ever seen. First he calls cripshot bad, then goes on to brag about his family guy collection.—Cheese Slaya's Sig Cheese Slaya (Talk) 19:43, 12 February 2008 (EST)

R/Rt_Sundering_Hunter (talk · rate)

SHen removed my vote on grouns of disproportionality... wtf? I'm going to resotre it but i'd rather make sure ppl know i'm going to.Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 12:31, 9 February 2008 (EST)

You reference Morten's vote, then give a lower rating. I fail to see how my vote is an oxymoron. -Shen 12:39, 9 February 2008 (EST)
I reference morten's points on the build so i dont have to type them, his numbers have no bearing on mine, and shouldnt. You roundly criticized with your voting points, yet gave it a moderate score, so it would make sense that you should have included some redeeming quality in it that warrants your vote numbers.Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 12:41, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Following that logic, it would make sense you include something to warrant your vote number, if you should reference Morten's rationale, which by the way has changed. -Shen 12:45, 9 February 2008 (EST)
I also wanna rant about skakid removing my vote with the note "yes, so because it can't spam poison it's complete trash? right..." (or something closely similar to that) since i never said that, and gave a 2-2-2 which doesn't reflect complete trash, i'm restoring my vote. geez. - Morten
2-2-2 = trash, so you're wrong. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 19:56, 9 February 2008 (EST)
how old are you? -Morten
Please use 4 tildes (~~~~) to sign your comments. Thanks. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 20:14, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Less than a 2.5 overall is trash, as per PvX:VETTING. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 00:38, 12 February 2008 (EST)

R/Mo_Escape_Ranger (talk · rate)

Vote wipe please, thanks. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:07, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Why's that necessary? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 16:08, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Because the build is awesome in arenas. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:17, 9 February 2008 (EST)
I don't think that requires a vote wipe, but instead, just unarchiving it and add the appropriate tags. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 16:18, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Alright, I'm removing all the bad votes, since Escape has many uses ( 2/3 upkeep, no end on hex, ect. ) — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:20, 9 February 2008 (EST)
Yep. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 16:21, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Rt/R Nightmare Marksman (talk · rate)

Needs a vote wipe. 10000000000 edits since it was put into tested. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 20:51, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Frvwfr got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 11:26, 10 February 2008 (EST)

A/P Anthemous Assassin (talk · rate)

Skadid keeps removing votes because he doesnt like the build.Inv.PacifismCrossfirexiv(contribs) 01:53, 10 February 2008 (EST)

Display's vote has no valid comment. Your vote is slightly more justified, but following Skakid's reason, you are providing a lopsided view of the build's capabilities and limitations. I believe your vote was struck because you gave a 5 for Effectiveness despite how easy it is to counter. I see no indication of Skakid striking votes due to personal bias. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 02:19, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Hm? how is it easy to counter?... Blind, Block, Anti melee hexes..... thats it. No counters against anthem and find their weakness. It has snare which is needed, DW, KD, and a massive amount of damage. I think skadid just doesnt like the build and the PVX policy is (Builds get rated by the opinion of the community), not skadid. He would probably allow votes that say (wow this sucks) over a really detailed vote.Inv.PacifismCrossfirexiv(contribs) 09:02, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Your DW is critical required, while you think that migh be easy, remember thre are skills that prevent criticals etc. Also i think skakids point was that because you don't have a shadow step, the monks will see you coming and be able to stop the chain (through aegis or something like that...)PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 09:57, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Hmm, first theres only like 2 skills that prevent crit and theyre never used. 2. all asassuins dont req shadowstep... look at shattering assault and GG assassin for example. Monks will see you coming, duh, but you have cripple which pisses them off.Inv.PacifismCrossfirexiv(contribs) 09:59, 10 February 2008 (EST)
If you are here to dispute vote removal, please do so without accusing admins of misconduct unless you have solid evidence. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 10:34, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Bob Frieman voted all 0, his vote has just says see discussion, which is mostly about how well it works XDInv.PacifismCrossfirexiv(contribs) 12:16, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Actually the discussion revolves around people saying why its bad and you swearing blind that its better than god at killing things. Lord of all tyria 12:24, 10 February 2008 (EST)
Bob Friegman's vote is 0-0-0 and he wrote (see discussion page) which is both positive and negative features of the build. Not valid at allCompanionshipCross xXx Fire(contribs) 21:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)

P/any_Cruel_Spear_Paragon (talk · rate)

I am a raver's vote needs moar reasons.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 09:33, 11 February 2008 (EST)

User:Voidwalker has no idea what the fuck he;s talking also.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 10:57, 11 February 2008 (EST)
Voidwalker seems to have removed his. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:48, 11 February 2008 (EST)

E/A Vermin HM farmer (talk · rate)

Risus's vote. No justification on a high rating. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 17:20, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Skakid got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:48, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Team - Dual Minion Bomber (talk · rate)

Author vote, lol.—Cheese Slaya's Sig Cheese Slaya (Talk) 20:41, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Skakid got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:48, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Rt/A Destruction SPike (talk · rate)

Author vote, lol.—Cheese Slaya's Sig Cheese Slaya (Talk) 20:42, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Skakid got it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 20:48, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Author revoted. --71.229 00:44, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Trashed. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 22:57, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Me/E_E-Surge_Domination_Mesmer (talk · rate)

PvXJing's vote... numbers are fine but less than stellar reasoning/knowledge.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 08:19, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Resolved. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 08:39, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Mo/E Blessed Glyph (talk · rate)

Build changed, vote wipe plx. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 15:57, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Done. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 16:13, 12 February 2008 (EST)

P/A Shadowgon (talk · rate)

Many votes do not make sense, such as few of the 5-5-5's. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 17:36, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Gone. -Shen 18:03, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Rt/Me Midnight Support (talk · rate)

Another SoM build; another creater vote.CompanionshipCross xXx Fire(contribs) 19:10, 12 February 2008 (EST)

A/N Assacaster (talk · rate)

The trash ratings. Bob fregman 20:53, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Your vote calls it a backline caster. I lol'd. –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 21:06, 12 February 2008 (EST)
So did I. I'm not rating the build any higher, it really isn't that good as a standalone build. Selket Shadowdancer 21:07, 12 February 2008 (EST)
Bob Friegmans vote is too high for such a minimal effect. either hes very enthusiastic about this build, or he made it himselfCompanionshipCross xXx Fire(contribs) 21:33, 12 February 2008 (EST)
On the other hand, User:Selket Shadowdancer's vote is flawed in hundreds of contexts. Apparantly doing anything that reduces your survivability = should never be run because it makes your monks rage. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 22:55, 12 February 2008 (EST)
I didnt make it, nor do i like assacasters. It produces a solo spike with a kd, deep wound, and alot of damage every 13 seconds, how's that a minimal effect?
It makes me rage. ._. i refuse to monk for any of the new "Sac" builds. The other team does enough damage thank you. But meh... The builds alright. its not trash at any rate. You just have to find a monk to put up with it. Anything higher than a 2 for innovation makes me laugh tho. At one time there were like 4 builds vetted and another 20 in testing with the same combo.--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 00:47, 13 February 2008 (EST)
Minimal effect. Compare this to the origional. Btw innovation for every person is a guarenteed 0. The origional had 2 KD, fastrecharging signets, 60 damageper signet. The original had a lot more damage, and despite the deadly paradox nerf, people still use it. Castigation Signet FTW. 65 + Poison + KD + 80 + DW < 65 + Poison + KD + 80 + DW + 80 + KD + 65. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Crossfirexiv (talk • contribs) .

W/Mo Ghial Farmer (talk · rate)

wtf? — Teh Uber Pwnzer 22:08, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Could you please elaborate? --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 05:57, 13 February 2008 (EST)
It takes 8 times as long as the A/E build and its rated good. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 09:20, 13 February 2008 (EST)

A/any SoS Spike Assassin (talk · rate)

Rewrite. — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 22:53, 12 February 2008 (EST)

General Coding Issues

Coding refers to any issue or bug that needs to be dealt with by a Server Administrator (Gcardinal or Hhhippo). See resolved issues here. PvXcode related issues have their own section below.

Recent changes RSS and atom feeds

Don't seem to work. [2] [3]. Both of them tell me This feed contains code errors. --Wizardboy777 SigWizardboy777(T/C) 00:45, 21 October 2007 (CEST)

I would love to get this working... Great for school where you can't always have RC open. It looks like a very simple fix too.

XML Parsing Error: xml declaration not at start of external entity Location: http://pvxwiki.com/w/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&feed=rss Line Number 2, Column 1:<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> ^ Fixable I would think by moving that line, <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> to the very top. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 09:47, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Rate Tab

This is directed at gcard or anyone who has coding experience. Is there anyway for you to be able to have the rate tab available while on the discussion tab? It's kinda annoying to go to the build tab again just to rate something after adding to the discussion. --Lost 05:43, 24 August 2007 (CEST)

I agree, it is a lil annoying... hardly priority though. Search system>this. --User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 05:58, 24 August 2007 (CEST)
I'm working on it, but it's difficult since the tab on the talk page has to trigger an action on another page. Be patient... – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 23:22, 27 September 2007 (CEST)
There was a solution to this which poke used in his GWWiki tools on gww. I'll point you to it when I have the time too search for it. -- (gem / talk) 00:59, 7 November 2007 (CET)
That would be nice. Also along these lines, I was thinking that maybe users not logged in could see the ratings but not rate. Sometimes when I'm too lazy to log in I wish I could just see how a build is doing or etc. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 19:23, 12 January 2008 (EST)

Rating Page protection

Can we get a way to protect a discussion page? It would be nice when a dispute like the Toucher happens... lock it so that votes can't be removed. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 20:14, 30 October 2007 (CET)

Just to add on to Frvwfr2's comment: in that situation, it should lock the vote page in such a way that votes cannot be removed nor can new votes be added. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 03:44, 1 November 2007 (CET)
That too. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 01:31, 4 November 2007 (CET)
Locking new builds by default, until they are in the Testing phase, could also be helpful.--War Pig5 13:59, 29 January 2008 (EST)
Locking builds until they're in testing would be difficult, if not impossible. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:38, 31 January 2008 (EST)
Not if we had those dynamic category tags. Lord Belar 21:46, 31 January 2008 (EST)

GraceExpired

Would it be possible to auto-tag Stubs and Trial builds that have been unchanged for 2 weeks, or even automatically enter them into this category? — Rapta Rapta Icon1 (talk|contribs) 03:29, 6 November 2007 (CET)

I think this is still being worked on, its not that simple lol. --Peter 10:24, 29 November 2007 (CET)

Build Master Implementation

So, as per general consensus, we're planning on doing a trial run to test out the impact of BMs on PvX. From everything I've been told, it shouldn't be terribly hard to add the code necessary to create a BM category, but, it does have to be done. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 01:01, 1 December 2007 (CET)

The code is implemented now. Build Masters can be promoted/demoted any time by the bcrats. Both BMs and sysops can roll back/restore votes. BM's votes have a weighting of 200%. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 10:18, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Nice! Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 10:20, 13 January 2008 (EST)
200%?! seems a tad high-but at least it's implemented =) thanks Hippo/GC (and anyone else who worked on it =P) ;PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 10:31, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Banned Users Voting

Hasn't been resolved.Uber sig pic 1 UberizAwesome 18:19, 27 December 2007 (EST)

Fix this now please. Because when certain users who rarely do anything BUT vote keep breaking 1RV with votes, banning isn't much of a threat because it doesn't stop the voting, and since they don't contribute, it doesn't matter if they can't >.> ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:43, 16 January 2008 (EST)
Also, banned BMs can still remove votes :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:40, 24 January 2008 (EST)
Easily fixable, demote with ban. If a demotion is not desireable, they can either be trusted or re-promoted when the ban is over.Bob fregman 23:21, 24 January 2008 (EST)
Well, the fix will probably just stop banned users from accessing the ratings page, which would also stop BMs. I just put it up here cause skakid said he could still remove votes while he was accidentally banned :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 23:33, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Preferences

Hopefully this is just me, but when I go to change my "nickname", my uhh... de facto sig, I need to change my preferences at least twice till it stays. 11hen [contribs] 20:56, 27 December 2007 (EST)

Happens to me sometimes too. I'll sometimes change my sig, but when I go to use it, it reverts to my previous sig. Yes, I do save it too. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 08:04, 28 December 2007 (EST)
More of mediawiki issue. It is just so much stuff going on with proxy, caching and so on, things like that can get lost in the way. gcardinal 11:59, 31 December 2007 (EST)

my stalklist

last time i checked it was "my watchlist" -.- User Ckow SigcKowDont 16:46, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Personally, I'm just glad I didn't break the wiki when I changed it. :P Talk:Main Page#Stalklist -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 16:53, 29 December 2007 (EST)
Just for the record, Special:Watchlist still directs properly. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 16:53, 29 December 2007 (EST)
It's ok now.. just looked wierd^^ User Ckow SigcKowDont 21:38, 29 December 2007 (EST)

Rate tab

Would it be possible to have the rate tab also show how many ratings the build has received, and maybe even what its current rating is? Maybe like "rate (0.00, 0 votes)" or something like that. As it is, anonymous users, users without confirmed emails, and users without 8 contribs can't even view the ratings page. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:11, 6 January 2008 (EST)

More ratings page stuff

The message on the ratings page when you don't have enough contributions is improper English and hard to understand. Right now it says:

Contributions required.
Looks like you a new to PvXwiki. For security reasons we requiere some edits\contributions to be made before voting is allowed.
You can start by adding some info about yourself to your userpage.

I would change it to:

Contributions Required
PvXwiki requires you to have at least 8 contributions before voting. A contribution is any edit to any page.
A good way to get your first few contributions would be by adding some information about yourself to your userpage.

¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:17, 6 January 2008 (EST)

Implemented. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 14:18, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Contributions Tab

I think userpages should have a tab for Contributions. This makes life generally easier if you're interested in some things someone has done or if you are checking contribs to prove/disprove sockpuppetry. It would make life a lot more easier. IDK if it could be done 'cause I'm a coding (Wikicode and HTML) noob. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 19:21, 12 January 2008 (EST)

There is one? Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 19:32, 12 January 2008 (EST)
Go to any user page or user talk page, scroll down to the toolbox, and click "User contributions". ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 22:41, 12 January 2008 (EST)
Told you I was a WikiNoob. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 15:40, 23 January 2008 (EST)

If your contributions are deleted, you can't rate builds

Extremely minor, but still there. If you have 8 contribs, but then have 1 or more deleted, you no longer get to vote. Found it using the sock I use for testing stuff. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:31, 12 January 2008 (EST)

That's because they aren't contribs anymore. That's the only reason I don't have 1000ish more contribs than I do - I delete all of them :P ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 23:38, 12 January 2008 (EST)
So, if I was a new contributer and made a build and it got deleted, then I never contributed anything at all? — Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:40, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Well, you did, there just isn't a record of it anymore. And because of that, we can't checkuser you. Which is why we recommend making a userpage, because that won't be deleted unless you request it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 12:04, 13 January 2008 (EST)

User Ratings

I made a preliminary version of My Ratings: Special:UserRatings. At the moment you can only use it to see a list of your own ratings (and only the most recent 200). It will be extended to show other user's ratings (and all of them) later. Please test. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 14:29, 13 January 2008 (EST)

I have a vote posted twice (i'll put a screen up in a mo)PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 14:36, 13 January 2008 (EST)
It's working perfect for me, just what I would want. Would it be possible to put it up there next to my contributions for the final version? Also, special:myratings? And we would find other people's votes as Special:Ratings/Name here. — ViYsig5Victoryisyours (talk/pvxcontribs) 14:41, 13 January 2008 (EST)
here Also thanks for making it =P PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 14:44, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Same thing happened with me. And this is really cool, thx. --- Monk-icon-Ressmonkey Ressmonkey (talk) 14:54, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Strange. Is it always the oldest vote that is doubled? – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 15:19, 13 January 2008 (EST)
My last one's doubled, also. Shogunshen Sig

Shen(contribs) 15:25, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Double last line fixed. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 17:23, 13 January 2008 (EST)

I wanna see Eloc's :p. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 15:21, 13 January 2008 (EST)

I want to see guild of deal's. But as he usually reates build bad, so they get deleted and then they dont show up on it. --- Monk-icon-Ressmonkey Ressmonkey (talk) 15:31, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Removed ones show. Lord Belar 15:50, 13 January 2008 (EST)
No I meant the build gets deleted, so they dont show up then. --- Monk-icon-Ressmonkey Ressmonkey (talk) 16:01, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Oh, right. Still, it's just like contribs. Lord Belar 16:07, 13 January 2008 (EST)

User Ratings Bug

A deleted build (that link goes to Build:Bonsai nine/Mo/Me Signet Smiting Monk) is showing up on mine. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 19:26, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Is anyone able to change/delete inapropriate votes?--Styxx HLFrans 10:37, 17 January 2008 (EST)

BMs and admins can remove inappropriate votes. If you think votes somewhere are bad, post a request higher up in the 'Build-specific issues' section (there are instructions at the top of this page). ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 13:08, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Rollback

Don't know where to put it so i put it here, but can we plant a edit on rollbacked votes? For example, if you make a typo, you gotta first restore it, and then rollback again, which is pretty annoing. - Unexist sigUnexist 04:52, 20 January 2008 (EST)

For New Players

I had no idea which section to put this, so i put it here. I think that we need a section for new players to give them specific details on how to make a build, how to put images on it, how to make links to other websites(like youtube for an example of the build) and also how to transfer web images to PVX, and lastly, how to make your homepage. When i joined(about 3 weeks ago, but ive known this website since it came out), i had trouble doing this, and i still dont know how to make pictuers, so i think that this would be helpful. I Am Jebus 15:23, 21 January 2008 (EST)

I echo this sentiment. As much as it pains me to reference GWW, we need some sort of Welcome Mat. Perhaps a contest? Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 15:29, 21 January 2008 (EST)
However, any page I envision would need some to make some controversial generalities, of which I would actually look forward to discussing in the course of such a contest. Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 15:31, 21 January 2008 (EST)
And it'd also be imperative we make our policy page significantly tidier, if we were to point newbs to them. This'd be, then, a huge endeavor. Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 15:33, 21 January 2008 (EST)
"Hi there. Welcome to PvXwiki. As you probably suck, here's some help. kthx." --71.229.204.25 15:34, 21 January 2008 (EST)
I SECOND THE MOTION!!!!! I Am Jebus 15:35, 21 January 2008 (EST)
From the sounds of things it's more of a "how to use wiki crap" rather than "how to make good builds" so i would say it's a somewhat good idea (jsut for those who have no idea what so ever) but tbh i think the other policies just about cover everything we need to know, but i think making the key policies with said information in them more prominent on the main page might eb a good idea, so it's something you instantly see kind of thing.PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 16:49, 21 January 2008 (EST)
That was kind of the idea behind this. I just haven't really done that much with it yet. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 17:45, 21 January 2008 (EST)
Awright, will u let other people edit that to help? I Am Jebus 18:02, 21 January 2008 (EST)
Yea, anyone who wants to help out with that is welcome to. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 18:13, 21 January 2008 (EST)

BM Recent ratings

how about marking bms in the recent ratings list? - Y0_ich_halt 16:01, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Most people know who the BM's are anyways. I'm pretty sure that if I saw a rating an it was for example Skakid I would know "Oh, it's a BM!" --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 16:33, 3 February 2008 (EST)

Toolbar

My Editing Toolbar is gone. Same goes for atleast InfestedHydralisk, so it's not my computer. --GoD Sig3GuildofDeals 21:00, 8 February 2008 (EST)

It doesn't show up for me either. On IE or Firefox. Also, see User talk:Gcardinal#Editing toolbar. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 21:02, 8 February 2008 (EST)
Wheres my toolbar D: I cant auto sign any more and im freakin lazy.--ShadowsinShadowsin sig 02:27, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Search Plugin

On Firefox it gives you the option to Add PvX Wiki to the search toolbar but then says it can't find pvxwiki.com/search.xml when you try to add it.

PvXcode Issues

Coding issues related to PvXcode. See also PvXwiki talk:PvXcode. Resolved issues are moved here.

Seed of Life

Seed of life doesn't seem to be effected by @xx. see here SoL is set @7 (at rank 7 as indicated in the note section) this should make it last 4 seconds, however it still says it lasts 1...5 seconds. PheNaxKian (T/c)Tag thumb 23:15, 21 November 2007 (CET)

That's true of all title-track skills I believe. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 23:54, 21 November 2007 (CET)
Not all-i think on the main page there's something down near the bottom about it and it has something to do with the asura title track where @xx works.PheNaxKian (T/c)Tag thumb 23:07, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Cool idea i think

Could we maybe get a bar sayin like Crit rate and DPS on weapon based builds? like for a warr have Crit rate based on wep mastery, and a DPS based on wep attribute. Mehbe not worth it, but useful nonetheless. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 02:22, 10 December 2007 (CET)

Would it be like base DPS? I dunno how useful that might be in some builds. Shogunshen Sig Shen(contribs) 02:38, 10 December 2007 (CET)
True... Maybe just crit hit chance then, but that has negligible use except for on Sins, but then they use a lot of crit increasing skills too. Maybe just forget it. ~~ User:Frvwfr2 frvwfr2 (T/C/Sysop) 02:42, 10 December 2007 (CET)
I think that would be quite kool, but then you have to think of how to get it only on rangers/warriors/ass. etc. and not jsut casters with a wand -.-. also on the idea of adding things-equipment template code(s) maybe? would mean we don't have to just list it....i think (would have to for PvE builds i guess....)PheNaxKian (T/c)Tag thumb 21:16, 11 December 2007 (CET)

PvE Attributes Counter

It would be nice. Basically the ability to put the PvE rank into the attributes and let it calculate how the skill works. Just my opinion IMO. --GoD Holiday Sig 2GuildofMoses 10:16, 24 December 2007 (EST)

[Skill@1...12], if ever the need arose. One can also click the actual skill. Though it'd be pointless to have a set attribute for such a variable attribute. Should a minimum value be prudent, simply note so. Shogunshen Holidaysig Shen has cookies 10:22, 24 December 2007 (EST)
That doesn't work properly though, it displays what rank you should be at but it doesn't supply the relevant information, what damage/healing etc. it does it still has the range in.PheNaxKian Phenaxkian christmas sig 13:49, 27 December 2007 (EST)
Perhaps we should also have a system where it shows how many attribute points there are left over, displayed next to the Attributes and Skills section of a build.

PvX Convert/Decode

They both don't work. — Eloc 16:31, 25 December 2007 (EST)

seems like some links are wrong (in the toolbox on the mainpage and the redirects of the submit buttons). just modify the urls manually: add "/wiki" between "...pvxwiki.com" and "/index.php" well.. Vespertine 09:16, 29 December 2007 (EST)
http://www.pvxwiki.com/index.php?title=Special:PvXdecode should link to: http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode on the main page and the Submit Query button code is broken as well. Rolo 19:23, 3 January 2008 (EST)
Fixed. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 15:08, 13 January 2008 (EST)

Build Template

Would it be possible to add the blank build template on to the toolbar instead of Styles and Formatting-> View Source->Copy->Pasting it? Would be helpful imo.--ViYsig5Victoryisyours (talk/RfA) 17:54, 26 December 2007 (EST)

User:Teh Uber Pwnzer/Template:Blank Build imo.Uber sig pic 1 UberizAwesome 03:09, 30 December 2007 (EST)
Well, we have the Bold text on the toolbar, which all you have to do is put 3 's around the word. And since this is a build site, you might as well have the build template on the toolbar. ViYsig5Victoryisyours (talk/RfA) 20:11, 31 December 2007 (EST)
You mean the toolbar on the editor? Cuz that would actually be pretty awesome. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 02:57, 1 January 2008 (EST)
Yes that one. — ViYsig5Victoryisyours (talk/RfA) 18:30, 8 January 2008 (EST)

New messages

Everytime I go to main page, it says I have a new message, but I don't. — Eloc 03:59, 29 December 2007 (EST)

it's a cache error. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 03:00, 1 January 2008 (EST)

I think this goes here.

71.229 Lol wut








Uh... --71.229 08:58, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Looks fine to me-I can see the icon....PheNaxKian Phenaxkian christmas sig 09:07, 3 January 2008 (EST)
All (most?) images show up like that when they're first uploaded. My guess is a cache error, but I'm probablky wrong. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 09:24, 3 January 2008 (EST)
o i c. Yeah, clearing my cache fixed it. --71.229 09:57, 3 January 2008 (EST)
Yea, all the wintersday entries were doing that for me when I first uploaded them. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 12:57, 4 January 2008 (EST)
I'm running FF. Any idea why I never have to clear my cache? 'Cause I always hear about it, but it does nothing at all for me. Cedave bad cedave (contributions_buildpage) 17:00, 5 January 2008 (EST)
I'm running FF and i just have it set to clear cache when it's closed =), saves me having to do it =pPheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 17:46, 5 January 2008 (EST)

Something is wrong with PvE section

Wutizdiz Those 'a'-s are weird. Dunno why, i reinstalled Windows now. ĐONT*TALK 18:17, 4 January 2008 (EST)

I don't have that problem. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 00:10, 5 January 2008 (EST)
Me neither :/ –Ichigo724Ichigo-signature 00:12, 5 January 2008 (EST)
It's fixed now-when GC changed the coulours on the main page he accidentally put an A at the end of each of the builds somehow (Wizzardboy explained on the main page i believe)PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 08:16, 5 January 2008 (EST)


There isn't a link to Team Arenas in the PvP Builds by category section. Zig 18:17, 13 January 2008 (EST)

There should be... it displays for me... what browser are you using? Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 18:40, 13 January 2008 (EST)
Hhhm im running firefox let me see if it works for IE.....very odd....it displays for IE but not firefox. Zig 12:55, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Focused Shot

Does not show the "+" in front of the bonus damage. example: <pvxbig>[[Focused Shot@12]</pvxbig> --- Monk-icon-Ressmonkey Ressmonkey (talk) 14:58, 19 January 2008 (EST)

Pious Assault

This skill needs to be updated. [4] Greevar 12:29, 21 January 2008 (EST)

A lot of skills need updating due to the recent update. But its a temporary testing update, so I assume the admins are waiting to update them before a-net says its final. --- Monk-icon-Ressmonkey Ressmonkey (talk) 12:48, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Build:Team_-_GvG_Balanced_Split

Getting Missing skill. Id=1259; Name=gw as an error when I try to view the page. --User:IbreaktoiletsTab Moo 11:59, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Fixed. Closing pvxbig's is good. Also, adding &action=edit to the URL is good. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 15:56, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Keyboard Shortcut

I'm not certain this is the place, but it seems the best place. The Alt-Shift-X shortcut for Random Build no longer works. - Ayumbhara Ayumsig 16:50, 23 January 2008 (EST)

wtf?

71.229 Wtf mate

On here. Cleaned up when I cleared my cache, but wtf? --71.229 13:06, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Skill icons

Are loading verrry slowly / not at all. ~ ĐONT*TALK 16:49, 29 January 2008 (EST)

False alarm, works fine now. ~ ĐONT*TALK 18:56, 29 January 2008 (EST)

Trial Build Page

There are two User pages containing builds in the trial builds page. Just FYI. Greevar 17:40, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Resolved. There were actually three pages. Two were caused by the users adding the PvE/PvP category templates, which automatically generate the page onto the Trial list. The third page was the user copying his own build template onto his user page, creating a page that duplicated the content, along with the categories. --Scottie bow Scottie_theNerd (argue/criticise/complain) 18:23, 2 February 2008 (EST)
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