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Is it possible to lock talk page edits as minor edits, or atleast make them the default? that could solve some problems. in addition, perhaps new users could be limited to only editing their own talk and user page for one day? this would thwart most impatient trolls imo. --Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 19:10, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Really, the only bad things new users do is vandalize. Most of the trolls are established users or socks of established users, and they're patient enough that an extra day won't slow things down any. --71.229 19:13, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
But in all honesty, trolling from established users is nowhere near as disruptive and frankly who fucking cares if they clog up the recent pages when they are the lifeblood of the wiki.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 19:15, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
Frankly, I care. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:16, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
No. There's a user preference that makes Minor Edits the default, but there's no way of which I'm aware to make that the default setting for all users (and there's certainly no way of which I'm aware to make all edits to specific pages Minor Edits. Regarding new users, that would be nigh impossible to actually enforce, besides which, unless the account is made specifically for trolling, most users don't troll that much on their first day, and if the account is made just for trolling, it'll get banned. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:16, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
I don't pretend to know anything about wikis or much about networking but if the wiki software lacks the provisions, i'm almost entirely sure some sort of check program could be written that basically could force the minor edit serverside. and i wont get into that other discussion right now, i have an essay to write and need time to make a good argument against your opinion instead of just random blabber.--Dark0805(Rant/Contributions) 19:19, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
I wouldn't be surprised if an extension existed to do just that actually. Unfortunately, with both Cardinal and Hhhippo largely MIA, I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for it to be implemented if I were you. Defiant Elements Sig Test 2 *Defiant Elements* +talk 19:24, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
I made the "Mark all edits minor by default" preference the default for all user accounts created from now on. About keeping User Talk page edits out of Recent Changes: I didn't find an extension to lock them to minor, but try this. – HHHIPPO ‹sysop› 15:43, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

I blame all this on Rawr. Eviscerate Warriors obviously own Pvxwiki as much as they do Guildwars.--Relyk 20:27, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Strange, I have not heard the term trolling used before. Can someone please enlighten me on what is the meaning? Huynh Sanity 00:37, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29 -Auron 00:48, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Trolls are all my life ..... Enjoy Frenzyphailer! 02:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Let's say someone submits an absolutely atrocious build. (Mo/E Flare Spammer) Is it still okay to say "This is a load of old shite" and then slap a WELL tag on it? Sebsig seb2lazy2login (ʞ1ɐʇ) 05:50, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

I think this is aimed at all the talk page stuff, like 50KB of Wtf!?Wtf!? --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 05:54, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Now the sad thing about PvX is that it isn't much more than a big home of trolls. While the site aims making builds there are basically three sorts of builds here: trash, decent and meta. Trash builds are usually made by newer members and trashed by the older ones, often without much of a reason; that's the reason why there is only a few frequent members. The decent builds (or those that are vetted so) are usually made by the older members on the site. The meta ones get an automatic 5-5-5 vetting. Now the problem is that usually the trashed builds lack reasons why they got trashed; so the authors won't be able to improve or learn from their mistakes. The decent builds are never truly ran by anyone, except maybe a few of the persons here on the wiki. The meta builds it doesn't really give a damn if we have stored or not; those that use them don't go here anyway. The problem with this whole concept is that it lacks any form of influence on anything. So what happens when the only reason for this existing is to trash obviously bad builds? People start trolling. Blah blah, much talk anyhow the point of my (failing) rant is that PvX got too little ability to affect anything. If we ever want this to becoem anything we need to either create the new meta or learn newbies what's good an not; as of now we do neither. Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 05:55, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

I also guess this has something do with mainly Igor? Pretty much all the drama, trolling and so on has been done by him recently. Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 06:00, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
The whole site's been on a downward tilt for a while now, Igor's just the most recent face on it. --71.229 06:07, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
(ECx2!)I won't get into a discussion here, but on the flip side of that, how many times has the author of a newly posted build been told in logical ways that it is bad and why it is bad only to have the author go off on some rant about how we must test it or how we're all stuck in our ways and only want builds using the skills we "randomly" decided to like? It's not all cases, granted, but neither is every build posted by John McFirstContribution shot down arbitrarily. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 06:08, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

@ Godly: When newbies make a horrible build and you try to explain why it's a horrible build, most of them act very stubborn and tell you that you "didn't test it" and the build "pwns RA" which makes people troll, obviously, with the "pwns RA" kitty, "RA is srs bsns" etc. or links to pages that say "You fail"(pretty much). Because most of those newbies won't accept the fact that the build they've been using in RA for weeks, or maybe even months, is actually utter trash, we troll them. I'll give Droks as an example; Instead of just saying "Okay, you guys have more experience, apparently, so I guess you're right" he starts saying "I have important friends" and "I throw you a boner and you put it right back in my face, I don't appreciate that" at this very moment (2 seconds ago, to be precise) we use his quotes to troll/joke and spam his talk page with Vengeance/VoS builds. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 06:36, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

That's the whole point of this policy change. There's no reason to do that to someone other than to be the biggest asshole you possibly can. How does going out of your way to annoy someone make things better? --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 06:38, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
It doesn't. Trolling talk pages because people aren't experienced as you are is just sad. However, it's very tempting when you're trying to explain someone why he/she isn't doing it right and that person tells you "You need more practice at Monking" and acts like he's the one who knows the game and not you. That's obviously funny, because he/she usually doesn't know the game at all (apparently, using GoR+Vengeance on a Monk bar) and, as I said, makes it very tempting to troll them. I'm using Droks as an example now because that's just....a perfect example. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 06:44, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Things like that happen all the time in real life too, however, there's a better way of dealing with it that trolling. It's called maturity. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 06:51, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm not saying I never troll. It was impossible not to, since Droks took at all the way to my Talk Page. I usually try not to get personal/troll, unless it's people who come here more often, for example recently on Crossfire's talkpage, which was hard-core trolling, but didn't get personal or offensive or whatever. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 07:01, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm still confused, does this apply to ripping apart a trashtastic build or just personal attacks/userpage spam? Sebsig seb2lazy2login (ʞ1ɐʇ) 11:56, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
This applies to trolling in general and especially towards new members. Saying "LOOK AT THE SYNERGIES" on a build that's clearly made by a 'noob' is what we don't want. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 11:58, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Yep. If it helps, we can interpret this as: Trolling: Don't do it any more or I will break your teeth with the ban bat. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 12:01, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Trolling is fun, if we keep it on eachother's Talk Page (that is, if we aren't bothered by it) and as long as it doesn't result in a "wtf? no u wtf?" ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 12:03, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
There's a difference between friendly banter and trolling. Selket Shadowdancer 12:05, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Meh, at least I stopped doing all the gay trolling a while ago. I dont spam or anything, i dont think =\ The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 12:05, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

As long as it stays on talk pages I don't rly mind. Image-Dark Morphon's SiggieDark Morphon(contribs) 12:12, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

It's very annoying when people don't use minor edit while having regular conversation(not about GW)/trolling/etc. though. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 12:15, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Put it this way. PvX is basically seen as 4chan with builds. That's not a desirable image. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 12:16, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
That's horrible, actually. Someone once even vandalised my User Page to "Stay off of 4chan"I was like "Wut, I never go there"... ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 12:18, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Well that's what happens when 80% of the edits are bad attempts at causing e-drama or memes. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 12:20, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I guess. Not every inside joke on the internet is necessarily a meme though. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 12:21, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
It are mostly all of those new wannabee's who troll. The old trolls (tab, grinsh, rawr, ska) already pretty much quitted. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 12:50, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, they were on Rawr's user page and I was on there, but that was a lie :P Mostly Igor, Crossfire, etc. ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 12:58, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Tbh you're gettting a pretty big troll too. —ǘŋƐxɩsƫ 15:37, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
I'm trying not to be, so what am I doing wrong? ɟoʇuɐʌʎʞɔıɹPanic srsbsns 17:03, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Does this mean i can farm the trolls outside of Droks anymore?!?!? 24.141.43.76 14:25, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Yes, but only because they drop nothing good. ¬ Klumpeet Enter my contest foo! 14:51, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

WHat is 4chan? Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 15:03, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Some image sharing website thing. Google it... ¬ Klumpeet Enter my contest foo! 15:03, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
Imageboard. Very NSFW despite how pussified it is now. --71.229 15:07, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

finally some action is being taken!--The Noob PoliceBadge (never|fails) 15:35, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

Elitest? This isn't a democracy, everyone doesn't have an equal vote. --Lann-sf2 Lann 21:23, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time." With Build Masters Democracy has been made slightly worse. Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 12:56, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
I don't think here is the place to discuss the benefits of democracy as compared to other forms of government. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 12:57, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
/signed and supported Shireen former sysop 13:33, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
/agree on the Democracy thing. --The Noob PoliceBadge (never|fails) 15:13, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
What are you agreeing on? Godbox GodlyCompanion-cube 15:48, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
To not discuss benefits of democracy. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   15:52, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
I was talking about the mention of trying to stop elitest behavior in the community yeah right --Lann-sf2 Lann 21:49, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
...--The Noob PoliceBadge (never|fails) 18:10, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

I blame the newfags. Trolling wasn't that bad until all the newfags came in and started to claim superiority over the oldfags. Why should we get punished? Shield of Deflection Hide-And-Seek 11:18, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

I don't really understand the excact meaning of trolling. Is trolling like insulting someone for no reason or more like posting comments that are not rellevant, the the internet is srs bsns idea?Impossible OddsFrans 11:22, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
Auron posted a link to an explanation about 1/4th the way down the page. - PANIC! Panic sig4 sexiness! 11:37, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Can we still troll Igor and Nova? Shield of Deflection Hide-And-Seek 12:48, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

How about no. -- Armond WarbladeArmond sig image{{sysop}} 13:05, 16 May 2008 (EDT)
No one posted it yet!
. Anyways, why do people troll? I can easily try and start a conversation with someone than just trolling on their page :/ You need to take the long way around in life sometimes people.--Relyk 23:53, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

{{User Anti-Troll}}{{clear}}
new template user box for this good cause--The Noob PoliceBadge (never|fails) 09:02, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Loldongs Edit

Would anyone dare to troll the no trolling announcement? ohh yes =)

NIGGER - RhyssigRhys 17:03, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Wow. ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   17:08, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
can we add bad language as well (while i personally have nothing against people saying such things, it's obvious from recent events (or not so recent maybe)) that some people do. This is one of the other problems that is (has more like) driven PvX to the shit hole. i know it's only contained to talk pages (for the most part) and as long as it's user talk pages i don't think it'd matter (i can't find the example atm but when i do i'll post it). ~PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 17:36, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
Found it it might be true, but there might be people who come specifically for AB builds, and play a lot of AB, comments like that (on the build page) will discourage people from coming back (if they ever come in the first place...) so such opinions (no matter how much truth there is to them) shouldn't be allowed in build articles. ~PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 17:40, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
Tbh, just remove that when you see it... Yeah, its in bad taste, but idk... ~~     Frvwfr2     talk    contribs    admin   20:12, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
Rhys, 17:38, 12 May 2008 Rapta (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "PvXwiki talk:News/20080512" (content was: 'FURST! Lol TROLL!!!!Zeecron 18:26, 12 May 2008 (EDT)' (and the only contributor was 'Zeecron')). On a related note, 17:29, 12 May 2008 Defiant Elements (Talk | contribs | block) blocked "Zeecron (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (Yeah, it's not a perma, but that's because that wasn't terribly deleterious. That said, it does show a wanton disregard for the entire purpose of the announcement.) ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 22:20, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

What does "ignorance" mean? Mightymousemoush 15:41, 18 May 2008 (EDT)

To be ignorant is to lack knowledge about something. --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 15:43, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
So basically, "Ignorance is not a defense" means that people can't troll and then avoid the ban by saying they didn't know about this. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(sysop) 16:13, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
if you wanna be critically technical than yeah... try and make it sound stupid--The Noob PoliceBadge (never|fails) 15:37, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
Basically if you troll you can't say you were ignorant (basically you didn't know you'd get banned), because of this announcement, which is constantly at the top of EVERY page.....~PheNaxKian (T/c) Phenaxkian sig phoenix 16:36, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
Someoen give me a precise definition of Trolling please?:X Nature 21:39, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
Being a troll. -Auron 21:41, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
Posting stupidly just to get some equally stupid response. -Shen 21:49, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
So if you troll stupidly to get NO response, is that also trolling? Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 08:55, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
"If you troll stupidly...is that trolling?" --Ibreaktoilets SignatureTab Moo 08:56, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
Yup, t'was question Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 09:31, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
yeh this guy was trollin mah build--SquidThe Noob PoliceSquid (talk|contributions) 09:59, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
What guy? :S Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 10:00, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
They're making fun of you. Yes, if you troll without getting a response or without trying to get one, it's still trolling. -StarSeeker | My talk 19:38, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
lol i was talking about you luke and you know it--SquidThe Noob PoliceSquid (talk|contributions) 20:02, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
Really?! I think you're pulling my leg here ain't cha? Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 06:00, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
You tell me--Magehunter Strike TNPTheSummer Police 2 weeks! 12:42, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
Eh? whats that mean? Dutchess of Roseakalukejohnson - talk - Contributions 15:25, 25 May 2008 (EDT) why;'s the writing purple?
Because you have already opened the link once. Frost eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 15:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
pfft he knows, he just dosnt wanna admit it, look at his talk page--Magehunter Strike TNPTheSummer Police 2 weeks! 23:15, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
Glad to see the no trolling announcement made. From the other forums and sites I've seen trolling has gotten worse (less humor, more harm) in recent times. Glad to see you guys say... nah not this time. 64.46.248.203 12:17, 19 June 2008 (EDT)
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