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No more walls of text.--Relyk talk 06:16, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Using Ebon Escape, can you jump through the gate?MinionMinion sig k bish 06:24, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
No. NT or Consume corpse can though. Life Guardian 06:28, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
To save some time, there are a few tactic changes, but the gate-hopping needs sorting. It's the slowest part of the run. I guess you could use a mixture of Recall and NT, so nobody has to purposefully die. Five switches, right?
  • 3x Sin with either NT or Recall.
  • 2x Nec with NT. Thoughts?MinionMinion sig k bish 07:48, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Err. Wow, you know nothing about the deep <3. The gate stays open for a bit after you leave the switches. 5 people with recall-->all cancel at same time(countdown in team chat)-->entire team on opposite side of gate. Life Guardian 08:02, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
I knew that was how it worked in those teams, but I didn't want to put Recall on everything. Also, seeing as the people who are through the gate are going to have to kill the outcast outside anyway, you might aswell use that.MinionMinion sig k bish 08:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Recall on mop, sos, and 3 sins? Life Guardian 08:46, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Looks like it. Replacing Tryptophan Signet on nec and SY on the sins. Er, I'll do it when I get home because editing on this laptop is irritating.MinionMinion sig k bish 08:59, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Using shadow meld + arcane mimicry on two players is a good way of avoiding stupid numbers of recall. Athrun Feya 12:00, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
^--XTREME 12:59, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Question; how does one three-man the five-button door?MinionMinion sig k bish 13:30, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Necro NT's over, monk dies, res scroll over. Warrior dies, monk UA's over. Andy 14:17, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
Shadow Meld isn't really an option here.MinionMinion sig k bish 15:00, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
why not? sin elite is kinda useless. I'd recommend at least one recall/sm with death's charge for flower room anyway, doing a really simple trick means you don't have to kill any outcast (since they all run to the back of the room) Athrun Feya 12:16, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Mind explaining that trick in greater detail?MinionMinion sig k bish 14:19, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Jump up to the aspect in the middle of the room with DC (or whatever else), and groups on both sides pop up and run round to the middle, leaving the path in both directions clear bar 6 oni. I believe the idea was that the team got ganked by the other side after fighting past one side and going to kill the Aspect. This backfired by placing the Aspect too close to the edge. Don't forget to jump out (with recall, meld or SoH) or die at the edge so you can be resurrected by the UA. Andy 14:59, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

There are a few holes in this build, the most blatant one to me is the lack of knockdown, for smooth takedown of aspects and for general utility, you should take as many copies of YMLAD as possible, with 0 copies, aspects will be a lot of trouble. I also have a few build suggestions:

  • ER bonders are extremely inefficient in the deep, with cons, most foes deal <10dmg with attacks, so the amount of protection is simply unnecessary, with 12 people, the most efficient way of healing is to heal the whole party in one go, skills like seed of life and heal party are ideal, spot heals like infuse and enchantments like spirit bond are inefficient, as has been said before, prot bond is likely to get removed en masse by chillblains and other removal skills. I suggest removing the ERs for another UA and a mimic HB.
  • I would also recommend fitting in a porogon, the build can be found on the spiteful spike page, it would allow you to skip most of scorpion aspect and clean up all the other runs.
  • You should take a copy of inspired enchantment, probably on the UA, to remove Kanaxai's Nightmare refuge.
  • A few of the skills seem badly thought out, i won't go into detail but examples are earthbind, enraging charge and vocal minority, they don't seem necessary and there are much better alternatives.
  • It has been suggested to use necrotic traversal to get across the gate, i wouldn't recommend this as the group near the gate can be out of range and there is no ranged damage in the build to kill them, and also the deathhands exploit corpses so there may not be enough corpses for more than 1 NT.
  • If you are going to use 5 copies of recall, the 2 people on the far pads need to use recall on others who are on pads, if they use it on people going through the door, the range will be too far and it will cancel. Paranon 17:11, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
We could always place Ymlad on the Rit, and yeah Earthbind is useless here as everything can be Knocked Down. If certain foes don't hit above 25, they just won't trigger Protective Bond. It's not a problem, and it means if the ER was replaced with a regular monk, they neither would need to heal. However, a monk cannot spam Great Dwarf Weapon on all the physicals, which is where our KD comes from at the moment. Vocal Minority is there as an AoE Fish Hex, it can be changed but it's helpful in the beginning. Enraging Charge is simply to allow the warrior to get to his target faster while building adrenaline to spam SaMS. Thanks for the tip on Recall. There is no point adding a "Porogon" when you could just put Godspeed or FallBack/Incoming on one/two sins. MinionMinion sig k bish 17:31, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
  • If you need an aoe fish hex, your necro/physicals are retarded.
  • Yes, you could put godspeed or fallback on one/two sins, but you haven't, otherwise i wouldn't have suggested a porogon, comprende? Paranon 18:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Check again ;) And yes, atleast two of the physicals will be gauranteed 90% vegetation. MinionMinion sig k bish 18:06, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
You seem to misunderstand the reason why we run a porogon and not just put fb on a few characters, not only does fb and incoming on a paragon give you perma 33% speed boost, but it also gives the whole party a sizeable amount of health every second, which allows you to easily skip the scorpion aspect and makes the bridges a lot safer. Also, with mop in the group, why only 1 100b war when they trigger mop double as often?
There is already a fair amount of AoE damage from Death Blossom spam, along with stronger single-target damage. The 100b Warrior is there to make the MoP happy. Also, Protective Bond keeps us happy when it comes to absorbing damage while running. MinionMinion sig k bish 18:30, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Do the maths, the more 100b warriors you have, the more damage you will get from MoP, and since mobs in the deep ball up nicely, aoe damage is the best way to kill things fast, also, why no EoE? Paranon 18:39, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
Arguing over one/two 100b wars is futile. You can decide for yourself on the ratio of sins/wars. No EoE because it's not necessary with the damage output already out there, it won't be making much difference. MinionMinion sig k bish 18:51, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
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